Tank main gun ammunition question

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Tank main gun ammunition question - 3/19/2014 10:50:01 PM

jenrick

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Joined: 1/10/2014
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Tank main guns usually have an AP, HEAT, and area rating listed. Is this representative of two or three different types of ammo, and each attack uses one and only one value (e.g. discrete KE or HEAT attacks) or does each attack take all three factors into account as sort of a "hybrid" cannon round that has capabilities of both a KE and a HEAT/HESH round? If it's the first (one factor only, e.g. discrete KE vs HEAT rounds), does the system track how many of each type are available? If it's the later then obviously it would just decrement the ammo as attacks are made.

Thanks!

-Jenrick

Post #: 1

RE: Tank main gun ammunition question - 3/19/2014 11:28:46 PM

CapnDarwin

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From: Newark, OH
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Do to scale we don't track each round, but we do look at what is the best round to use based on the situation (range, pen vs. armor) including tube launched ATGMs if the unit is equipped. So based on number of attackers, ROF, targets, and a few other factors we end up with a percentage of ammo being used and that is subtracted from the Ammo value seen. I personally at some point would like to look at the additional overhead of tracking ammo per round/system versus time of execution and size of files. In the long run I don't think combat would be any different really but players could "see" each round being ticked off as it is used.

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RE: Tank main gun ammunition question - 3/20/2014 1:18:11 AM

jenrick

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Joined: 1/10/2014
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Interesting I had expected a simple decrementation of the ammo counter per attack.

quote:

In the long run I don't think combat would be any different really but players could "see" each round being ticked off as it is used.

One of the reasons I was asking, was in reference to the ready rack or at least easily accessible ammo for most vehicles. I was playing KG Rommel the other night, and watched my Jaguars make an attack every minute for at least 15 minutes. Now each group is 2 vehicles, with a single TOW launcher available. Watching each attack cause 2-4 kills on the advancing WP tanks was pretty impressive. As an aside, I'm not sure how one manages to kill 2 tanks with 1 TOW missile? Even if you assume each double kill was the result of 2 TOW's striking home, that is some mighty fast and consistent TOW reloading to put out a missile every 60 seconds. Sure they have plenty of ammo, but getting it into action is another story.

Most tanks only have so many of each type of round (KE/HEAT/HESH/etc.) readily accessible. The rest are usually stored some place less convenient but hopefully safer, and much slower to load from. The Leopard 2 series for instance, has to turn the turret about 90 degrees to the right to be able to pull the rounds into the turret bustle and put them into the ready rack. A platoon of Leo 2's engaging waves of WP armor, will very quickly run through their ready KE rounds, and have to resort to less effective HEAT rounds. Even then if I recall correctly, the Leo 2 carries 14 rounds total in the ready rack (so best case 14 sabot rounds). To resupply the ready rack, they really do need to be under good cover for about 5-10 minutes to transfer rounds in safety. This is dramatically less ammo available in a sustained engagement then then 25 to 30 rounds that it carries total.

With the longer time scale of each turn (25 mins on average I'd say), this might force tanks in constant contact to pull back to restock their ready ammo supply. The current model allows them to stay engaged for longer time frames. Even if they don't run their supply of "readily available" ammo dry, they will certainly be at a much lower ammo percentage of "readily available" ammo after even one short engagement if they don't have a chance to restock the ready rack. Now whether this should require a full resupply action, or simply a period of time static and unmolested is a good question.

-Jenrick

< Message edited by jenrick -- 3/20/2014 5:36:07 AM >

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RE: Tank main gun ammunition question - 3/20/2014 9:00:02 AM

battlerbritain

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Joined: 11/2/2013
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I'd love to see the ammo expenditure tracked on a per round basis.

It'd be really interesting to see how quickly the 'rounds remaining' counter ticks down.

I've looked at this with other rules sets. eg FFOT3 and Assault, and there is never enough ammo. With rates-of-fire on modern MBTs a modern NATO MBT could fire off its' complete load of ammo in around 5 minutes. Then it just becomes another target.

I think ammo expenditure is probably the most crucial aspect of modern warfare.

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RE: Tank main gun ammunition question - 3/20/2014 9:14:25 AM

zakblood

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27 rounds of the main gun ammunition are stored in a special magazine in the forward section of the hull, to the left of the driver's station, with an additional 15 rounds stored in the left side of the turret bustle, and separated from the fighting compartment by an electrically operated door.If the ammunition storage area is hit, a blow-off panel in the turret roof would direct an explosion upwards away from the crew compartment.

Later types has less, Ammunition load for the main gun was 32 rounds, which were stored in a large ammunition bunker, covering the full turret rear. Moving the ammunition out of the crew's compartment would have resulted in a higher survivability in case of a penetration.

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Post #: 5

RE: Tank main gun ammunition question - 3/20/2014 4:24:47 PM

Mad Russian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

Moving the ammunition out of the crew's compartment would have resulted in a higher survivability in case of a penetration.

It also resulted in a slower rate of fire.

Auto loaders are another issue altogether.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 6