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Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!)

 
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) Page: [1]
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Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 1:12:04 PM   
adsoul64


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/23/2012
From: Milan Italy
Status: offline

DBB 28C 25 March 1942 – Japanese
My problem is with Clark Field. Looks obvious I’m missing something.

The situation. I have been bombarding with artillery for 1 month (average 250 guns a day) and with 40+ bombers (light and medium ones) for 1 month and a half.
Starting from February the 1st I had shocked (once) and deliberated attacked (thrice). The score? 20,000 losses (mine) vs. 3-4k!
I’m pretty sure that he can’t receive supply.
I was sure that the airfield was damaged *every day*… but my last-but-one attack his forts was 2 and the last one was up to 3, so I was wrong. Fog of war?
I have both Command HQs and Corps HQs in range. Leaders are good.
I’m ready to give more info if needed, please feel free to ask, right now I just can imagine more data that could be useful.
So, my question is: I’m obviously missing something. I’m afraid I’m failing to grasp the “right” way to attack a fortified base, so any advice would be welcomed. Thanks everybody.

Below the last bloody attack
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Clark Field (79,76)

Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 32675 troops, 342 guns, 261 vehicles, Assault Value = 1021
Defending force 32890 troops, 425 guns, 209 vehicles, Assault Value = 861

Japanese adjusted assault: 528
Allied adjusted defense: 4888

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 9 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
4478 casualties reported
Squads: 59 destroyed, 248 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 50 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 74 disabled
Vehicles lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
768 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 46 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled

Assaulting units:
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
38th Division
Kanno
16th Engineer Regiment
48th Engineer Regiment
1st Recon Regiment
3rd Ind Engineer Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
47th Infantry Regiment
7th Tank Regiment
1st Ship Engineer Regiment
48th Field Artillery Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
45th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
11th PA Infantry Division
31st PA Infantry Division
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
3rd/12th PA Inf Battalion
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
31st Infantry Regiment
2nd PA Constabulary Division
USAFFE
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
Provisional GMC Grp
1st USMC AA Battalion
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 1:20:23 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		How was your troops' disruption and fatigue?
My wild guess is that the shock attack went very bad, and troops have not yet recovered;

He is certainly in supply, otherwise, the combat modifier report would show supply (-)

Also: check the troops composition:
Attacking force 32675 troops, 342 guns, 261 vehicles
Defending force 32890 troops, 425 guns, 209 vehicles

you are attacking with less troops and less guns. He is making his last stand in Clark; not in Bataan

My advise:
- move out your most depleted troops, and let them recover in a hex with plenty of supply and support
- wait another month, but confirm he is not moving additional supply into Luzon
- keep bombarding, counter-battery will expend supply
- deliberate attack after the month, with "fresh" troops and engineers, his supply should be gone by then


< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/1/2014 2:36:09 PM >

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 1:38:30 PM   
adsoul64


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/23/2012
From: Milan Italy
Status: offline 		Thanks Jorge, I'm moving a "blockade" fleet just to prevent supply. You're right about umbers, maybe I'm doing the same mistake the Japanese did in RL (understimating US fighting skill). Anyway troops were freshes I'm rotating following any attacks.

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 2:01:41 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		What Jorge said.

Also, you are attacking with smaller units-mostly regimental strength or smaller. Regiments tend to suffer heavier disruption and casualties than their recombined division equivalents. I'd recommend recombining these into their respective divisions (shuffle them around if necessary) before trying another deliberate attack.d

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 2:02:15 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Your units are not all combined into divisions. They'll work much better as bigger units in a siege.

Bring in another division at least. You simply don't have much there if you want to get the base early. If not, wait another month or two and it'll be much easier!

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 2:14:24 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline 		The enemy is more strong than you, simply you don't have enough troops to take the base now, wait.

quote:

I have both Command HQs and Corps HQs in range. Leaders are good.

I don't see any "+" on your attack, are you sure your Leaders and HQs are good? Preparation points?

Bombard with Art units only for a while, in this way you can recover fatigue and disruption from combat units more quickly.

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 2:24:44 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		Clues that he is out of supply at the base are:

Flak bursts do not appear in the combat animation. Damage to your troops from counter-battery fire in bombardment attacks reduce.

However, that just means the base and the AA and artillery units are out of supply. The infantry will still have 30 days of supply in the LCU so wait another 30 days before attacking.

Before launching your attack, move more bombers over and spend a week or so on ground attack. This will increase disruption and fatigue for his troops.

(in reply to adsoul64)
Post #: 7
RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 2:50:27 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Adding to what others have said...

- Recovering your troops in a base with plenty of supply and in Rest mode is even better.
- Also keep up aerial bombing of the airfield. You are after supply hits more than keeping the base damaged.
- Tanks are very good at helping attack fortified positions. When you are ready to attack again bring plenty of tanks.
- If you are using optional stacking limits, stay within the stacking limits until you are ready for that next attack. You only need to leave enough troops there to defend themselves. Remove any excess for the month or whatever it is to save your own supply.
Do check your leaders as other have suggested.

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 2:52:07 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		Just because you are bombing his airfield does not mean he cannot build forts. It means you are not doing enough damage to the airfield - his engineers are repairing the minor damage to the airfield and building forts as well.

Bring in more artillery if possible and bombard every day to slowly wear out his troops. Constant artillery and air attacks will reduce his units - but its slow going without large numbers.

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 3:04:07 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		He has three divisions + four regiments and you have what looks like only four combat regiments + one division and you are wondering what is wrong? You need at least 2 move divisions plus what you already have there if you want a fast victory. I usually commit three divisions + smaller stuff to Luzon as I want it overrun quickly so they can be used elsewhere.

So either commit more to the party or be willing to spend the time to take it with what you have there.

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 4:03:07 PM   
adsoul64


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/23/2012
From: Milan Italy
Status: offline 		Alot of good advices, thanks everybody. So it looks to me that my main problem is I need more AV. It is going to be a problem because IJA is involved in heavy fighting in Java as well, not to mention Singapore where the attack has been delayed because lack of units . My opponent is doing a great job in rotating his own units in and out Bataan / Clark. Frankly I'm not sure if I will able to get the job done.
Anyway, I'm planning to go through those steps:
1. Heavy artillery /aerial bombing at least one month while my units recovering.
2. Bring more INF/ARM from wherever I could find them
3. Overstack the hex with ARM / INF / ENG and shocking.

I think I'd better collect 2k AV before attacking again. And crossing my fingers. Unfortunately I can't see any way to stop him to reshuffling his units and in Bataan the Allies have more or less 25k additional men.

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 4:57:52 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		Don't shock attack before forts are down to 0 - bring lots of combat engs and do deliberate attacks to bring forts down.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 4/1/2014 6:01:10 PM >

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 5:36:33 PM   
adsoul64


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/23/2012
From: Milan Italy
Status: offline 		I thought shock to maximize fort reduction

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 5:56:11 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

I thought shock to maximize fort reduction


A shock attack will reduce more forts, but if the attack fails you suffer horrendous losses not just in men, but in morale and fatigue.

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 6:21:47 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

Alot of good advices, thanks everybody. So it looks to me that my main problem is I need more AV. It is going to be a problem because IJA is involved in heavy fighting in Java as well, not to mention Singapore where the attack has been delayed because lack of units .


Then keep up the aerial bombardment for another couple months until those units on Java or Singapore are freed up. Then port them back to Luzon after his supplies have run out.

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 8:57:28 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		OK, it may be too late for adsoul64 but I seem to remember that bombardment attacks give poor units the chance to gain experience. Is this true? In the PI there are many such units early, and getting a units' EXP up to 50 is a big deal if he gains the morale to go with it. Of course such units need the cover of forts. Be careful that he doesn't sneak in supply, the AI did it to me in my game.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 4/1/2014 9:58:38 PM >

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 9:07:58 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, it may be too late for adsoul64 but I seem to remember that bombardment attacks give poor units the chance to gain experience. Is this true? In the PI there are many such units early, and getting a units' EXP up to 50 is a big deal if he gains the morale to go with it. Of course such units need the cover of forts. Be careful that he doesn't sneak in supply, the AI did it to me in my game.

Yes, it is true!

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 9:14:14 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		That's what I thought. So is it better to keep the bombardment up or not?

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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 9:42:35 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

That's what I thought. So is it better to keep the bombardment up or not?


Bombardment does build up experience, but it also burns up enemy supply. In the PI basically you are working to burn up all his supply and then his forces will melt away. So I would not worry too much here and keep bombing and shooting your artillery. These are poor units with poor equipment. Frankly it does not matter much what his experience is once you cause him to use up his supply. Bombardment and constant air attacks cause him morale to drop and these unit will not regain much morale. And once supply is gone, nothing comes back. You are behind schedule here but it is not the end of the world. I would at this point focus on taking Singapore and Java and then shift a few divisions back to PI to take care of this lot. I play the Allied side and know that by mid March, he can't have much supply left.

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 9:43:57 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Maybe bomb Clark Field's port with Nellies and Betties? With 800kg bombs you should destroy some supply there plus reduce the port.

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RE: Fortified enemy bases (Barb please keep out!) - 4/1/2014 11:31:52 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

That's what I thought. So is it better to keep the bombardment up or not?


Bombardment does build up experience, but it also burns up enemy supply. In the PI basically you are working to burn up all his supply and then his forces will melt away. So I would not worry too much here and keep bombing and shooting your artillery. These are poor units with poor equipment. Frankly it does not matter much what his experience is once you cause him to use up his supply. Bombardment and constant air attacks cause him morale to drop and these unit will not regain much morale. And once supply is gone, nothing comes back. You are behind schedule here but it is not the end of the world. I would at this point focus on taking Singapore and Java and then shift a few divisions back to PI to take care of this lot. I play the Allied side and know that by mid March, he can't have much supply left.


Thanks, that's what I thought and I know its not really the type of question that's yes/no. As with most questions its a that depends.

BTW, in my last attempt against the AI, the little bugger slipped some supply in (Bataan) right under my nose because I wasn't vigilant enough.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to crsutton)
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