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N.A.R.A. - 4/25/2014 4:09:29 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Spending my second day at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). For those who have never been it is quite the experience. You name it they probably have it. Unfortunately the trick is finding it. As I sit and wait for my docs to be pulled there are researchers pouring through official reports and communiques, examining blueprints of ships etc. The records are truly amazing...

My pull today consists of:
-the background notes and supporting docs for Romanus' Stillwell's Mission to China
-Incoming Weekly reports for the US Mission to China 8/41-3/42
-Records related to Chinese Army Units generated by the Asst Chief of Staff, Chinese Combat Command.


A day at NARA can be quite informative however the research is time consuming and tedious...it is not like a library where you can simply wander the stacks and pull the docs you want. you have to complete a pull sheet, the the extremely helpful government employees at NARA pull the docs for you at pre-selected times throughout the day. There are only 5 pulls on M-W-F and 4 on T-T. It then can take upto or in excess of an hour for the docs to be delivered to the reviewing room.As an example the background notes referenced above occupy 20 storage boxes alone. Time to go as it appears my docs are ready...


_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Post #: 1
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/25/2014 4:21:49 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Are you allowed to photograph areas you feel warrant it, or do you have to pay to have them photocopy stuff?

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 2
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/25/2014 4:31:55 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Photgraphs are allowed of most material.


_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 3
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/26/2014 11:40:14 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Here is a nugget for you --- 1945 TO&E for a Chinese Division...some day I will learn to read Chinese kanji's




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 4
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/26/2014 11:43:52 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Here's another nugget for the fans of the AVG...






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 5
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/26/2014 12:40:01 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Here is a nugget for you --- 1945 TO&E for a Chinese Division...some day I will learn to read Chinese kanji's




My wife is very busy preparing for a trip to visit her family in Taiwan in a few days. I won't ask her now, but maybe when she gets back...

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 6
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/27/2014 1:20:37 PM   
GI Jive


Posts: 171
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline 		Nice description of a day at NARA. It takes a certain type of personality to enjoy poring through old documents but I'm one of them. The entire WW2 collection of Army Signal Corps, Navy/Marine Corps, Army Air Force, and Coast Guard photos & film are there. There are still nuggets to be discovered. They do allow you to bring a laptop & scanner in.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 7
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/27/2014 5:49:32 PM   
Symon


Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Here is a nugget for you --- 1945 TO&E for a Chinese Division...some day I will learn to read Chinese kanji's

Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama. Think I might can puzzle out some of the library characters. It's a nice document to try on anyway.

_____________________________

Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 8
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/27/2014 6:45:36 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 1112
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama. Think I might can puzzle out some of the library characters. It's a nice document to try on anyway.


Hi John,

If you try, a few guidelines...

1- this is old stuff, written top down and right to left: the title is on the right of the picture, and reads:
Organization of the headquarters of a year 34 (ROC years, add 1911) army.
1 bis - In particular, those horizontal titles you see at the top read from right to left.
2- from right to left, the columns list the officers, and bureaus, in decreasing order of rank/protocol.
3- from top to bottom, you get : title, rank, troops, weapons, automobile, horse.

have fun!
Francois

< Message edited by fcharton -- 4/27/2014 7:50:36 PM >

(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 9
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/28/2014 12:35:06 AM   
TOMLABEL


Posts: 5116
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama.



That's fantastic, John. But you forgot to say "ROLL TIDE" at the end of that sentence....

TOMLABEL

_____________________________


Art by the Rogue-USMC

WITP Admiral's Edition: Ship & Sub Art/Base Unit Art/Map Icon Art

"If destruction be our lot - it will come from within"...Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 10
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/28/2014 12:38:05 AM   
TOMLABEL


Posts: 5116
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Spending my second day at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA).



Any chance at finding any documents on what color the Arizona and the other 7 BBs where painted in at the time of Dec. 7th? 5S-Sea Blue or Dark Gray?

_____________________________


Art by the Rogue-USMC

WITP Admiral's Edition: Ship & Sub Art/Base Unit Art/Map Icon Art

"If destruction be our lot - it will come from within"...Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 11
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/28/2014 3:23:58 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama. Think I might can puzzle out some of the library characters. It's a nice document to try on anyway.


Hi John,

If you try, a few guidelines...

1- this is old stuff, written top down and right to left: the title is on the right of the picture, and reads:
Organization of the headquarters of a year 34 (ROC years, add 1911) army.
1 bis - In particular, those horizontal titles you see at the top read from right to left.
2- from right to left, the columns list the officers, and bureaus, in decreasing order of rank/protocol.
3- from top to bottom, you get : title, rank, troops, weapons, automobile, horse.

have fun!
Francois

These are also traditional characters, not simplified as currently used in China. Not sure which ones you are being taught, just be aware. Taiwan and Singapore still use the Traditional characters.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 12
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/28/2014 1:16:41 PM   
Symon


Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton
quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama. Think I might can puzzle out some of the library characters. It's a nice document to try on anyway.

Hi John,

If you try, a few guidelines...

1- this is old stuff, written top down and right to left: the title is on the right of the picture, and reads:
Organization of the headquarters of a year 34 (ROC years, add 1911) army.
1 bis - In particular, those horizontal titles you see at the top read from right to left.
2- from right to left, the columns list the officers, and bureaus, in decreasing order of rank/protocol.
3- from top to bottom, you get : title, rank, troops, weapons, automobile, horse.

have fun!
Francois

These are also traditional characters, not simplified as currently used in China. Not sure which ones you are being taught, just be aware. Taiwan and Singapore still use the Traditional characters.

Thanks. The teaching method is pinyin and the simplified characters. So the traditional characters will be difficult to read. Will take some skull sweat, or maybe a conversion chart

_____________________________

Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 13
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/28/2014 1:39:54 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Yeah some of them are similar, some not. I learned the simplified first then later the traditional. Can't write the simplified any more, just can't call them to mind, but I can still read them ok. Oh, and just FYI: then there are also the Original characters. You can identify them as they tend to be "squigglier" as opposed to 'boxy'. The original were changed to the traditional form when the chinese invented printing. The original were too difficult to make wooden block type sets, so they were modified.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 14
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/28/2014 1:41:30 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Spending my second day at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA).



Any chance at finding any documents on what color the Arizona and the other 7 BBs where painted in at the time of Dec. 7th? 5S-Sea Blue or Dark Gray?



Probably...however my trips there are very infrequent and require me to take a day of leave. At most I can sort through 10 boxes or so of documents. As an assist you can e-mail NARA and an archivist may be able to narrow down the search parameters. That is half the battle...the index room has walls of notebooks with indexes that can direct you toward certain boxes...its a very time consuming process.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to TOMLABEL)
Post #: 15
RE: N.A.R.A. - 4/28/2014 1:45:00 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Here is a nugget for you --- 1945 TO&E for a Chinese Division...some day I will learn to read Chinese kanji's

Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama. Think I might can puzzle out some of the library characters. It's a nice document to try on anyway.



FYI - that photo is one part of 3 or 4 of the whole document. As you can see the the page extends to the left. Also the page was part of a folio. I can post some of the other photos later tonight when I get home.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 16
RE: N.A.R.A. - 5/2/2014 12:12:24 AM   
Symon


Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL
quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama.

That's fantastic, John. But you forgot to say "ROLL TIDE" at the end of that sentence....

TOMLABEL

Yeah, I quite forgot about that. So sorry Kelley.

GO Gators !!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.

(in reply to TOMLABEL)
Post #: 17
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