RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J)

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RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 4/29/2014 7:24:40 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

No. You're wrong.

This raid will work against all Japanese players. Always. It should be consistently tried. Preferably with valuable Allied forces. Allied carriers should be involved to cover the operation-preferably prior to their upgrades or new airframes. Early 1942 (January?) would be best.

Can't tell if you're serious, heh.

He's dead serious! He would LOVE it to see the Allied fleet coming into range of the hundreds of training strike planes in the HI, preferably as he states just when the Allied CVs have poorly trained fighter pilots flying Wildkittens!

If noticed in time these moves are really dangerous. If he'd decided to really chase as well, he would have started the KB toward the Gulf of Alaska at fist sign of the raid. If it was at Truk as you think, that means you would have potentially been intercepted on the way home, cut off from retreat, and lost those CVs and virtually everything else heading back to the states. My fear would be to get a torpedo from a strike or a sub and be slowed on the way back.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 31

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 4/29/2014 10:24:23 AM

Lowpe

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Just read some of the recent 1942 AARs there is a lot of aggressive offensive action happening up North in the majority of them, most with the Allies coming out ahead either victory point wise or morale wise.

The raid makes AFB feel good, after getting knocked down in the PI and DEI etc.

Most aren't as large as Lokasenna's and target industry & factories, but still they are happening.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 32

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 4/29/2014 12:33:05 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

My point is the attempt at something here will be SOP especially when the KB is on the other side.

My point was that against a properly prepared Japanese player a raid such as this could turn into an early war disaster for the Allied player. In this case the Japanese player was completely unprepared, that won't always be the case.

I wouldn't say completely, just inadequately prepared. He knew it was a danger zone, but underestimated the forces necessary to protect himself. He also underestimated my strength in the area. It really was more than just the USN CVs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
And I wouldn't be relying on Jake's or Mavis's for search in the early war in areas that matter. I'd set my Nell's and Betty's to search first, then switch them over to attack. If there had been Betty/Nell search committed there's a good chance all the bombardment TF's would have been spotted in time to prepare a much more effective air counterstroke. I'm still pretty leery about risking the Allied CV's for strategic VP's that could easily be gained in 44/45 rather than 42. I get the psychological aspect to Lokasenna's raid, but don't think this type of operation will/should become SOP for Allied players. Unless you are staving off auto-victory and absolutely need the VP's, I just don't see the risk/reward being worth the potential losses. I'm a conservative player though.

One of the things factoring into my considerations for this raid were the sheer number of attack aircraft he has committed elsewhere. Just on this past turn, there were at least 50 Netties, 40+ Zeroes, and 15+ Oscars in NW Australia. Combine this with the apparent commitment of another Nell/Betty unit at Rabaul or Moresby, plus a Sally and a Lily unit at Rabaul or Moresby (the 3 of them were used to bomb Horn Island), and Mavis sightings in the South Pacific... I knew his air assets were spread very thin at home and in the north, just from what I saw elsewhere. And they still are. I intend to conduct my operations accordingly.

It wasn't just the USN CVs, but I weighed the risk and deemed it to be low, while the payoff was large. I knew where KB was, where MKB was, within the past 2 weeks. Granted, the coast of Honshu off Tokyo is only a few days' sail from Truk if the KB goes at full speed, but that's a dangerous use of fuel for 3-4 successive days. Not to mention the Sys/Eng damage buildup.

I did absolutely need the VPs. I probably should have held longer in China, and it's going to cost me Chungking very early as MM is willing to beat the crap out of his divisions to batter down my forts. In his last attack he dropped the forts from 5 to 4, but suffered over 30,000 disabled/destroyed troops. Very expensive for him, but I'm looking at losing Chungking while my VPs are still below 10,000. I would have been past a 3:1 in his favor with the fall of Bataan on May 1 (where he beat up 3 of his other divisions as well in successive attacks for almost a week) without this raid. I'll lose 800 when he takes Chungking, and he'll gain 1600 plus a ton for the troops. Even if I'd traded only 2:1 on this raid, it would still have accomplished its secondary objective of gaining ground in the VP race. 300 strat VPs is a pittance in the long run, but this wasn't about the long run.

Yet another example where playing the design and not "the journey" leads to exciting, innovative play. Being far behind in VPs can be a motivator and risk modifier.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 4/29/2014 2:22:32 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 33

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 4/29/2014 12:46:28 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

No. You're wrong.

This raid will work against all Japanese players. Always. It should be consistently tried. Preferably with valuable Allied forces. Allied carriers should be involved to cover the operation-preferably prior to their upgrades or new airframes. Early 1942 (January?) would be best.

Can't tell if you're serious, heh.

He's dead serious! He would LOVE it to see the Allied fleet coming into range of the hundreds of training strike planes in the HI, preferably as he states just when the Allied CVs have poorly trained fighter pilots flying Wildkittens!

If noticed in time these moves are really dangerous. If he'd decided to really chase as well, he would have started the KB toward the Gulf of Alaska at fist sign of the raid. If it was at Truk as you think, that means you would have potentially been intercepted on the way home, cut off from retreat, and lost those CVs and virtually everything else heading back to the states. My fear would be to get a torpedo from a strike or a sub and be slowed on the way back.

The pre-war USN carrier fighter pilots are very highly trained, as are the attack pilots. They are a match for trainees in Zeros any day. They just don't have any backstops for some time if lost.

Lokasenna shared a lot of data on Japanese air search that I don't think readers have fully absorbed. He's playing Japan in our game. He knows the Japanese OOB as well as any player here. This was not a shot-in-the-dark operation. It made use of intel freely available in the game, coupled with a forum culture whereby most Japan players assume the HI are safe in 1942 and thus they can go off foraying anywhere they like as USN carriers, those tender snowflakes, must not be risked ever, ever, ever. Ain't so.

As for the KB charging forth, it's not the starship Enterprise. I've played Loka in these waters for seven months of game time now, and it's a BIG piece of blue. Eight-hex TBs are nice, but this is a vast area to retreat through. I've gone as far as Nome in our game to hide my ships. Is the KB willing to go to Nome? The USN can retreat toward Pearl, Dutch, Seattle between Pearl and Dutch. Or . . . Nome. Mavis has a long range, but it's out of range in a day on a full-speed retreat if the TF is properly speed-balanced. Yeah, one gets a torpedo it slows down. Cut it loose and save the other three. But first it has to get a torpedo, and that means staffing the north with torpedo planes and torpedo HQ, or driving the KB into a sub net full of S-boats with working fish. And that Japan response costs elsewhere. Which is sort of the point.

This was a clear, out and out Allied win. Look at the aircraft exchange rate. Look at strat VPs, which never get canceled. Look at his supply costs to repair industry. Look at his ship losses, especially precious DDs. Not even close to a draw.

If Japan players prepare for this in future, well good. They should. No less than Allied players ought to have 6-8 fighter units over Seattle in 1942.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 4/29/2014 2:23:39 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 34

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 4/29/2014 2:56:47 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

No. You're wrong.

This raid will work against all Japanese players. Always. It should be consistently tried. Preferably with valuable Allied forces. Allied carriers should be involved to cover the operation-preferably prior to their upgrades or new airframes. Early 1942 (January?) would be best.

Can't tell if you're serious, heh.

He's dead serious! He would LOVE it to see the Allied fleet coming into range of the hundreds of training strike planes in the HI, preferably as he states just when the Allied CVs have poorly trained fighter pilots flying Wildkittens!

If noticed in time these moves are really dangerous. If he'd decided to really chase as well, he would have started the KB toward the Gulf of Alaska at fist sign of the raid. If it was at Truk as you think, that means you would have potentially been intercepted on the way home, cut off from retreat, and lost those CVs and virtually everything else heading back to the states. My fear would be to get a torpedo from a strike or a sub and be slowed on the way back.

I disagree about KB being able to catch. I knew my optimal retreat path well before I went in. I counted the hexes from Truk. KB can go 16 or 18 hexes at full speed, but they don't have very large fuel tanks... Going north of the Aleutians basically puts the USN beyond the range of full speed ahead from Truk. Without full speed, it's unlikely that the KB would move at mission for 2 phases in the middle of the ocean, with no threats around, so it's unlikely he'd be able to catch. At this point, I'm assuming he gave up on getting to me already, which is the smart decision in my opinion. I'm expecting KB to show up elsewhere sometime soon. I was prepared to go to Nome. I knew Bullwinkle was using Nome, and I wasn't willing to chase him there. I actually would have welcomed a fight within Umnak's bubble - I've got it at level 6 by now, with plenty of Av. Supp. and planes, and more within flying distance (Anchorage, Kodiak, etc.). I think I could fight him to a tactical draw/strategic Allied victory there - rough fighter parity on the CVs (116 on mine vs. 108 in his organic groups), lots of B-17s at Umnak to help wear down KB's CAP without losing lots of planes in the process, lots of surface assets in the area, etc. And it's not a very long haul to Prince Rupert/Seattle for repairs.

Sadly, I was unprepared in terms of submarines. I did not have very many S-boats there - only 2. The rest were fleet boats, due to their higher endurance and the longer-term nature of their mission of sniffing out naval search. I suspect now that I'm not sniffing it out because it's still inadequate. There's no reason he shouldn't be detecting me just one hex outside of Shimushiri or Paramushiro, or two hexes out of Etorofu, with single-hex patrol zones. He should have sighted me at some point over the 6 weeks they've been sitting there.

I did use one day of full speed on my retreat - the first day after the strikes concluded. 16 hexes is a long ways for the Mavis to go to catch up, especially when I was already a few hexes out. It definitely puts you beyond Jake range, which is 10 at best.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 35

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 4/29/2014 7:23:24 PM

obvert

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This is a great move, don't' get me wrong. Well researched and played. Still, it works because the Japanese player is unprepared for it. Of course it may lead to others being more prepared. Will I try it against GJ, who has seen and read all of this and has undoubtedly allocated forces there, possibly even begun to plan for a retaliation to such a move, and undoubtedly has great search and pickets? We'll have to see!

What you're both neglecting is that the KB could have started from Truk before the op was even finished. "At first sighting ... ." It wouldn't have gone for the Aleutians, but farther West, to cut the retreat, then back. Maybe Allied bases are sufficient to protect against a KB strike. I'm not aware other than that Umnak is a level 6. Your B-17s might not even fly, though, and the possibility is there to catch the US CVs. In 42 i'd still give the KB an advantage. Sorry.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 36

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 4/29/2014 7:56:01 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

This is a great move, don't' get me wrong. Well researched and played. Still, it works because the Japanese player is unprepared for it. Of course it may lead to others being more prepared. Will I try it against GJ, who has seen and read all of this and has undoubtedly allocated forces there, possibly even begun to plan for a retaliation to such a move, and undoubtedly has great search and pickets? We'll have to see!

What you're both neglecting is that the KB could have started from Truk before the op was even finished. "At first sighting ... ." It wouldn't have gone for the Aleutians, but farther West, to cut the retreat, then back. Maybe Allied bases are sufficient to protect against a KB strike. I'm not aware other than that Umnak is a level 6. Your B-17s might not even fly, though, and the possibility is there to catch the US CVs. In 42 i'd still give the KB an advantage. Sorry.

I get what you're saying. I just know that KB was off Townsville on April 5. Heavy radio traffic at Truk plus the availability of the TF 1 designation on April 19 is simply an educated guess that they put in there at that time, but I think it's a good one (~40 hexes from their raiding position on Townsville). And my instinct says it's correct. I can't empirically prove that's where KB was, but I "know" they were there. It's the right timing for them to replenish after a month of roaming about the South Pacific, and Truk is the nearest port capable of replenishing KB as well as the likeliest.

KB has the advantage, yes, but my point about fighting near Umnak is that they would get bloodied, which is a strategic win for the Allies. It's true that maybe my B-17s wouldn't have flown, or maybe the P-38s wouldn't escort (a waste of their talents, I know, but I'd have used them), or maybe the P-40s wouldn't escort, or maybe the Vindicators and Marauders and Mitchells wouldn't fly either. In the hypothetical, I would be banking on enough of them to fly.

There's no way he could have beaten me to Umnak from Truk. I only had 34 hexes to go to pass the Medny Island/Attu Island transit point. Reasonable striking range to there is 60+ hexes from Truk. Yes, he could run straight for my exit point at Dutch Harbor/Umnak, trying to cut me off from the West Coast, but that's even farther - 90 or so hexes for a reasonable striking point 7 hexes SE of Dutch Harbor. By contrast, the route I took was 63 hexes to reach Cold Bay. That's 7-8 days of sailing for me and over 10 for him. And it isn't much, but I have Catalinas searching from Midway on westerly arcs (all of them). Part of the reason I sent my damaged ships south of the Aleutians is because I wanted early warning in case he was coming - time for my CVs to bail out of sight to the north if necessary.

For reference, KB has a full speed one-way range of about 50 hexes. There's just no way he could have caught me, without running out of fuel or having a miraculous AO fleet in the middle of the North Pacific.

Interestingly, one of my TFs transiting east of Canton Island reported being sighted by a Dive Bomber this past turn (May 4). Usually when sighted by Jakes, it says sighted by Japanese Recon or Patrol or Float Plane or sometimes Torpedo Bomber. It's not as rock solid as sighting a D3A1, but it could be a sniff of KB, if they're trying to intercept me if I head back to Pearl Harbor. However, no air strikes on the TF (DL 7/7) other than those from Canton, which all missed. So I'd say probably not KB.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 37

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 4/29/2014 8:47:46 PM

Lowpe

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Goodness, I hesitate to think what the damage to the ships would be after a full speed run for so long. Not to mention arriving, and then fighting where the Yankees have land based air available and you are low on fuel.

Better to use the KB aggressively somewhere else, since you know the Allied Carriers are occupied there, or just stay in Truk (if that is where they where). I know, but I ain't telling.

War is dangerous, and Lokasenna took a calculated risk and got a solid win.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 38

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 5/2/2014 5:19:26 PM

Lokasenna

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Well, everything is safely away. All forces except BB Colorado and DD Fanning have returned to Prince Rupert. Colorado is a couple of days out, and Fanning is at Dutch Harbor temporarily.

Have landed at Amchitka on May 9. On May 10, landings will go in at Adak. I intend to collect the LCU VPs for an infantry regiment (the 80th), a naval guard unit, and a JNAF unit. He doesn't appear to be defending them at all. I had a radio transmissions sniff at 155,68 on May 9, but nothing has appeared in the Catalina search arcs from Dutch Harbor. Regardless, I'm running north after the first day of landings at Adak in case it's the KB sailing blind...the timing is just about right for this location. I should get everything ashore in one day of landing, anyway.

CVL Hermes was sunk 1 hex NW of Perth by an I-boat

. Worked so hard to save her.

Also, I forgot that a significant portion of my Chinese units at Chungking were in Reserve mode. Oops! Has been rectified. I intended it as protection from his bombardments, and it turned into an assault trap but I think I may have missed the boat on it. He dropped the forts to level 3 in his last assault. This past turn, his AV was 4668 to my 6310. Hopefully my now-Combat-mode Corps can inflict another 30k+ casualties on his forces.

For the record, I think he is making a strategic mistake by wrecking his army against Chungking. He did the same thing at Bataan with 3 Divisions on the attack - by the time the base fell, the raw AV for the 3 Divisions was under 700. The 21st and 16th were heavily disrupted and may have needed a lot of replacements. As far as I understand the system, repairing disabled devices does not have the potential to lower the XP of a unit, however taking replacements does. By grinding his forces down, not only is he costing himself supply to replace rather than repair devices, but he could be suffering hits to the XP level of his divisions - many of which should be good ones. This could end up biting him in the behind later.

And all of those supplies... Each squad replaced costs 12, IIRC.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 39

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 5/13/2014 12:01:48 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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Am formulating my next move(s). It appears that I took too much out of China and Chungking is going to fall rather quickly now, though part of that is that MM is beating the crap out of the IJA to do it. Yes, he's reducing the forts, but he's taken 30k+ casualties in the last few attacks.

My ABDA troops in NW Australia have escaped Katherine to the east, and will attempt a breakout to the south and/or southeast while reinforcements come up from Alice Springs. It occurs to me as I write this that I probably bungled the first stage of the withdrawal. Once he kills the token units at Katherine this turn, he'll be able to move into my currently targeted hex before I can get there. I may be looking at a longer slog back towards Cloncurry and Normanton, which is fine - I just don't want him getting the VPs for these guys. The root cause of my VP troubles is basically that I tried to defend too far forward, and too early. I could have withdrawn everything to Australia instead of losing bits at Soerabaja, Koepang, etc.

Here's the info screen as of 5/24/1942. VP Ratio is around 2.65:1. If Chungking were to fall today, it would be around 3.3:1 minus a little to account for his losses (~28500:~8600). I have some building to do at Noumea and Canberra still, as well as Socotra, Diego Garcia, and Anchorage. But basically...assuming he builds Chungking to the max along with Chengtu, I'm looking at roughly 30800 : 9200. In a couple of posts I'll be looking at how best I can get some more VPs before 1943.

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Post #: 40

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 5/13/2014 12:07:03 AM

Lokasenna

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I've been noticing a trend over the past few months. Part of this is that I haven't been contesting him in the air unless I feel like it (which is hardly ever), as I don't have the numbers to sustain it. I have hurt him a couple of times. There is a steady trickle of VPs in my direction due to steady ops and flak losses on his part.

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Post #: 41

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 5/13/2014 12:18:02 AM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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More detail on his airframe losses. The numbers for Zeroes and Oscars boggle me a little bit. Is he not resting his units sufficiently? That's the only thing I can figure.

He has bought into the idea of ample Jake production. I believe he has mirrored my own production, which is 90/mo, although the rate at which I see Jakes and their rate of loss makes me wonder if he didn't push it even higher. The ops loss rate for them (103 out of 127!) makes me think that they're on high levels of search without enough rest. Same for the Nells - I have seen those on search as well.

I am thinking that I may make it a minor point in my larger strategic goal of bleeding him during 1942-1943. My reasoning for this is that he is eager to burn up lots of fuel by using the IJN all over the place. On May 24, Ise/Hyuga/Mutsu/Nagato joined the daily CA bombardment trains at Akyab. They were last seen at Darwin. That's a long sail, and a lot of fuel (plus the fuel and supply for the CAs...). He's burning lots of supply replacing ops losses, as well as the HI (I think that is probably a minor point). He hasn't yet captured a large supply stockpile from me. He may have captured ~20k at Darwin, but that would be the biggest haul. On top of his aircraft/naval supply use, he's burning a lot of supply in China with needlessly impatient and costly attacks at Chungking. While I would like to destroy his merchant shipping, I don't think it's possible in this game with the way duds work, so I am going to focus on his supply production while I push hard in 1943.

Speaking of bleeding, I sunk my first AO with fuel on board last week. With Mk 14s, too.

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Post #: 42

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 5/13/2014 12:28:04 AM

Lokasenna

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And here's the strat map. I have several options for next moves. I don't have much of an idea where KB is. I religiously check my SigInt, but not so much as a sniff... I suspect they may be hiding, waiting for me to show up somewhere. If I had to guess, I'd say Truk or Rabaul, given that he expects me to make moves in the South Pacific. And I am going to, but they'll be either baby steps or operations of opportunity.

First up is Canton Island. Yes, it's still May 1942, but the bulk of MM's air power is concentrated in BIC or NW Australia. He has some assets at Port Moresby and Rabaul, as well as Lunga. There seems to just be token search/strike units at Canton. Once Wasp arrives in 11 days, she will set sail for Pearl Harbor, from which the Canton invasion force will sortie immediately thereafter. It will dog leg south towards Christmas Island, and then hit the atoll. 2 Tank Battalions and a Marine regiment should be more than enough.

The other 4 USN CVs will attempt to approach the Marshalls from the NE. The goal of this is to get his Bettys and Claudes (or Zeroes...) to fly into the USN CAP. If he doesn't detect me before I get within 12 hexes, I will strike Kwajalein's port to try to bag some shipping. If he sees me farther out, I'll only stick around for a day to bag any strike craft before running away, assuming KB is still hiding out.

I would also like to move on Wake and hold it, but that will have to wait until after the Canton operation. I do not want to spread my CVs too thin. If KB does surprise me in the area, I at least want my 5 CVs in the same general AOO.

I'm undecided with my Chinese remnants. I have ~9-10k Chinese AV in the western mountains. I am thinking that I should just break them through into India, leaving the bases behind, despite the good terrain. I just can't get anything but a trickle of supply into the area and once Chungking falls, this area is probably next on MM's list. The only thing the Chinese will do here is die, albeit slowly, but die they will. However in India/Burma...they might be able to do some good. They could at least hold the border under air cover until I'm ready to push forward, right?

Lastly, the Wotje SST test is scrubbed. I had intended to land 1/2 of a Marine Raider Bn on the island via SST to test if CD guns would fire at SSTs, but just this past turn I got intel that a full naval guard unit was present on the island. Not wishing to repeat the events at Roi-Namur, I'm diverting them southwards somewhere... Probably Mili. However, the smart money is that he's garrisoned all of the Marshalls already with at least a naval guard unit. Time to use the raiders elsewhere - probably further afield, like Yap/Ulithi to be a PITA or that island between Truk and Babeldaob.

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< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 5/13/2014 1:31:41 AM >

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Post #: 43

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 5/13/2014 12:38:39 AM

Lokasenna

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Luganville is almost completely built up, and Noumea isn't far behind. I will use them to jump to Ndeni. Once Ndeni is built up, I will jump for Lunga/Tulagi. The bases in yellow on the strat map above represent my ultimate goal - to isolate the Marshalls sometime in 1943, and then pluck the ripe fruit from the vine while the rest is left to rot. He has built up Tabiteuea quite a bit already, so I am expecting a fight there. Much as I would like to move on to it on the cheap, I can't. Tarawa is likewise built to level 1 port/level 2 AF.

This area will also have to wait until after the Canton operation, and possibly/probably the Wake operation. I will need CVs and shipping and only have enough for one at a time, however I may do this one first immediately after Canton.

Steps to complete before I can pull the trigger here:
1) More LBA
2) More LBA. Fighters.
3) More LBA. Bombers.

I will prepare to fight the KB here, should they come. I would prefer that the fight occurred near Ndeni, where I will keep my CVs and amphibs within LRCAP range of Luganvilla/Vanua Lava, but I will take a fight at Lunga/Tulagi as well. Once I have Ndeni, I can expand my search net, so can expect some measure of earlier warning. I just wish I could move on this sooner, while the vast majority of his surface forces are wasting their time in the Bay of Bengal. At least 4 BBs and 7 CAs are over there... Unfortunately, this is July at the earliest, due to my desire to have 36+ Wildkittens on each CV before engaging KB.

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Post #: 44

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 6/30/2014 10:11:24 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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A few months have passed. I've just sent the August 15 turn off to MM.

Strategic picture
I'm stymied in SoPac, but working to correct it. My general plan for the area now is to bypass Guadalcanal - MM has built a whole nest of air bases here. I doubt that he has them working at full capacity, but without knowing where his aerial OOB is allocated it's possible that he could have a bunch of planes sitting just a day or two away.

Also, in late July I feinted towards Guadalcanal, seeing how soon I would be detected and how swiftly he would react. I wanted to see if his focus on Ndeni being my next move was blinding him to the possibility of a deeper thrust by me at Tulagi/Russell Islands (Munda is still "green", though I have no forces there...I intend to rectify this in about a month via SST, if he does not reinforce).

As soon as he sighted my (empty) amphibs southwest of Ndeni and accompanying SC TFs, although not my CVs, he sortied KB from Truk. They sped SSE, between Ndeni and Nauru/Ocean. He did spot Saratoga, DL 10/10, on her way through the Canton Island area (which is now in my possession). I somehow had sightings on KB all the way through here, I think because I had flooded the area with submarines and they were detecting transmissions as well as Kate/Val ASW patrols. I lost sight of them when they began returning to Truk, but kept sighting the airborne patrols with my subs so I had a general idea of where KB was at. I didn't get any submarine attacks off, though not for lack of trying.

This move gave rise to the following operations, to be conducted in a jab-left, uppercut-right fashion. Or whatever the boxing analogy is...

Operation Dungheap

Primary objective: Capture Wake Island, if possible.
Secondary objective: Divert his KB response northward if primary objective unattainable.

OOB:
LCUs
53rd (Sep) Infantry Regiment (still 1941 squads)
Bobcats USN Seabees (to build forts , prep for later base forces)

Landing Force
BB Arizona
BB Tennessee
CL Detroit
APD Gregory
3 AP
2 AK

Bombardment force
BB Idaho
BB New Mexico
BB Prince of Wales
BB Warspite
5 DD
I know Wake gets a CD unit in reinforcements sometime in the spring/summer of 1942. The BBs in the landing force plus this bombardment should take care of them with ease.

"Feinting"/Covering force
CVE Long Island (2x6 F2A Buffalo)
CA Quincy
CL Nashville
5 DD
The idea here, admittedly an afterthought and not well-planned, is to show some CV-based aircraft in case I encounter any planes. Due to the lack of detection on the entire approach, their mission is somewhat superfluous at this point.

There was a heavy volume of radio transmissions at Truk this turn. Last time, this signaled KB's sortie. He did have DL 1/1 on the amphibious TF for Wake last turn, but nothing this turn. I'm wondering if he might be reacting aggressively, and hope that he is.

I have already received an email back, confirming to me that everything went in as planned... no replay or turn yet, but soon.

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Post #: 45

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 6/30/2014 10:16:38 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

Operation Outhouse

Primary objective: Capture Ndeni

Justification: Of the SoPac bases, Ndeni is my necessary next step if I am going to bypass Guadalcanal on a SoPac/CentPac thrust. Combined with Funafuti/Vaitupu, then Tabiteuea/Tarawa, this will form the "shoulder" for my capture of Ocean Island and Nauru Island, from which I had originally intended to progress to Kusaie and Ponape while taking Eniwetok from the north, to isolate the Marshalls and remaining Gilberts... however he has fortified Kusaie considerably and Ponape is beginning to expand also, so this thinking may change. I realize these are all atolls, however I think if I make good use of my Marines I can make this happen.

Ndeni only has a level 2 AF and a small garrison if 1 Naval Guard unit and 1 JNAF Bn, and possibly a construction unit of 16 engineers. He is definitely leaving it as bait.

OOB:

LCUs
7th Marine Regiment

Landing Force
2 APD
4 AP
2 AK

Screening force
CA Indianapolis
CA San Francisco
5 DD

Covering force
CV Saratoga
CV Wasp
BB North Carolina
CA Minneapolis
CA Louisville
CLAA Atlanta
CLAA San Juan
CLAA San Diego
8 DD
I know he has Bettys out of the Lunga Complex. I need the fighter cover for the day of unloading, if I believe KB is heading NE. I judged this unlikely on 08/16 since he didn't see my approach to Wake, but maybe he'll surprise me and want to retaliate against the dogfaces on the island.

Reserves (at Sydney, completed upgrades and in transit to Noumea to join covering force)
CV Enterprise
CV Hornet
CV Yorktown
6 USN CA
1 RN CA
CL Boise
11 modern USN DD

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Post #: 46

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 6/30/2014 11:26:06 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

Early reports show that Operation Dungheap is a failure in its primary objective. The Japanese have level 4 fortifications on the island, and despite a perfect bombardment and perfect landing sequence, only 1:24 odds are achieved against the defenders - which include the crack Ichiki Detachment, as well as a Naval Guard unit and the CD Gun battalion. Such is the price of not bombing and bombarding for days on end beforehand...

Heavy radio transmissions at Truk again today. I hope it's a response, coming to bomb the troops on Wake or try to chase down my ships. The bombardment group is safely away; only the landing group and CVE TF remain.

Tennessee and Detroit each hit a Type 93 mine at Wake, but damage is only slight (single digit system and low-20s float to each ship).

The entire regiment made it ashore, as well as the construction unit, with less than 50 reported casualties in the replay. The defenders did suffer disruption in the attack:

quote:

Ground combat at Wake Island (136,98)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 3039 troops, 36 guns, 43 vehicles, Assault Value = 112 Almost the full AV

Defending force 4415 troops, 52 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 124

Allied adjusted assault: 7

Japanese adjusted defense: 171

Allied assault odds: 1 to 24 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
635 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 106 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 7 (1 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Assaulting units:
53rd (Sep) Infantry Regiment
Bobcats USN Naval Construction Battalion

Defending units:
Ichiki Det.
53rd Naval Guard Unit
Wake Coastal Gun Battalion
5th JAAF AF Bn

Fare thee well, 53rd Infantry Regiment. Sorry you had to die today. Let's hope it wasn't in vain.

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Post #: 47

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/1/2014 1:19:22 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Did you have any intel on Wake units before the invasion?

For any atoll you probably have to spend some days hitting it with CV air and multiple bombardments. At least that is what finally worked against my own defenses in my last game.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 48

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/1/2014 1:37:30 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Did you have any intel on Wake units before the invasion?

For any atoll you probably have to spend some days hitting it with CV air and multiple bombardments. At least that is what finally worked against my own defenses in my last game.

I had intel on the Naval Guards and the JNAF Bn, and I knew the CD gun regiment would arrive from reinforcements. The last intel I had on the Ichiki Det was that it was on Hokkaido...which is where it arrives. It's a great little unit, over 80 Exp IIRC. I just gave it a few more points...

As of the second day of the escapade, the troops on the ground are still alive. Supply is only at 1.8* the required amount, however, so they won't last long.

Really, with this op I picked "volunteers" (units that withdraw in any case, even if it is 1.5 years from now for the regiment) that I could afford to lose. I judged it to be a crapshoot against what was there, minus the Ichiki. My adjusted AV of 7 was disappointing, considering the short time onboard the loaded transports and very minimal disruption during the landings. The Ichiki contributed at least a third of his adjusted AV. During the assault, the Naval Guard unit's effective AV dropped into the teens while the CD gun unit was 0, as was the JNAF Bn (which are sometimes 9 when at 100%).

My gamble is that I want him to respond, so that I can move on a bigger prize. In the upcoming turn, I've moved the amphibs off Vanua Lava to within 4 hexes of Ndeni anyway. The forecast is overcast, and I have LRCAP over them from Vanua Lava. If they're sighted, I'll have to back off, I think... and wait for the other 3 USN CVs to come up from Noumea in about a week. So long as he only has a day of warning on the amphibs, I think I might be able to land the USMC regiment under F4F-4 cover from the CVs and get out in a single day.

I did gain some intel from the Wake operation, aside from just what's there. I was able to approach very, very close without being sighted. I may spend some time in late '42 bombarding the place to get some planes and keep his attention in the northern CentPac area. I intend to do the same with Marcus... There are nowhere near enough Mavis units to go around, and Jakes aren't reliable for more than one day of warning.

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Post #: 49

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 2:33:55 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

Things just got incredibly intense in the space of about 4-5 turns.

Operation Outhouse provoked, predictably, a response from KB. They were sighted on August 25 just west of Tabiteuea. 2 TFs, as is MM's practice. I'm not sure if Hiyo/Junyo are with the big CVs or not. Or maybe it's KB and MKB moving together, which would be really scary. I get the feeling that I may find out on this upcoming turn. I love my USN subs for providing this intel. He leaves his B5N2's on ASW work, and I think it gives my subs the ability to give me a DL on KB if they're within a few hexes. It's magical and I love it.

KB disappears for August 26, 27, and 28...but reappears again on August 29, ENE of Luganville. He has good DLs on my CVs (10/10 on the 3x Yorktown TF, and 6/9 on Saratoga/Wasp), as well as 10/10 DLs on a couple of resupply convoys just south of the Ellice Islands. I've needed fuel for my CV escorts for a couple of days, and Luganville has plenty. So I head there to refuel. Unfortunately, and this could prove to be a (terrible) turning point, I left them on Full Refuel. When I load up the turn on August 30, North Carolina and Wasp are each at 1000 Ops, while Saratoga is at 860. They aren't moving this turn. If Saratoga had been able to make more than one hex on the 30th, I would've moved 2 hexes out and left Wasp under cover at Luganville. Unfortunately....

On August 30, this is what I see: KB is 12 hexes almost due NE of Luganville. The battle plan had been to use the 64 B-17s and 21 B-24s at Luganville to wear down KB CAP as much as possible, with 65+ Aggression and Inspiration commanders, while holding about a 55% CAP over my CVs and 45% fighters on escort for the strike. He still has A6M2s on the flight decks. The A6M3a isn't available until 12/42, and the A6M5 is sometime in 1943 still.

The new plan is as follows:
Hold the CVs at Luganville for a turn. They'll be operating at 50% efficiency, which sucks. There should be 260 LBA fighters on CAP (layered 6-18k altitudes), which puts Luganville at exactly 400 planes for the stacking limit, plus whatever makes it up from the CVs. The CAGs will stay on 50% escort, Dauntlesses on 10% search/90 strike, and the TBFs on the same, all at 6 hex range, though a 50% effective strike is likely to get butchered...if he comes within 6 hexes I at least need to send something at him.

I had wanted to move my CVs just SE of Luganville, following an SCTF so they wouldn't react at all, and engage on my terms. Our CAG fighter numbers should be comparable, though his strike package outweighs mine.

I'm hoping that he's spoiling for a fight with my CVs and gets a bit of tunnel vision. His Zero and Nell air units have taken a walloping over the past 2-3 days, with a 60:14 kill ratio on August 29 (

) over Luganville. On August 30, 35 Zeroes and 32 Oscars swept Vanua Lava and outnumbered my remaining CAP there - 14 Zeroes/5 Oscars shot down for 13 Wildcats (from my CAGs

) and 8 P-39Ds. Only 146 Wildcats are operable aboard the CVs on August 30, so 27 more are transferred aboard from Vanua and Luganville to fly 80% CAP. CAGs take replacements from Luganville while they have a chance, but it will be 2 days before the majority of them are operable.

All VF commanders at 70+ Air skill, all strike groups with 64+ Insp/Air/Aggr... crossing my fingers for the next two days.

1: KB, obviously. Spotted heading SW. Low DL - only 1 TF is sighted, and only about 200 planes reported with only 2 CVs/4 BBs/3 CAs/1 DL.

2: Amphib TF unloading supply to supply recent Torres Island action (it's solidly mine, will be built up to support eventual Ndeni landing)

3: Crippled amphibs from failed CAP at Torres on August 28. 3 APs are in danger. They will retreat to Santa Maria to the SW and disband. This is probably the safest place for them if things blow up here.

4: 25 P-38E, 98 P-40E, 84 P-39D, 16 Kittyhawk, 17 F4F-4, 16 F4F-3 on 90% CAP. Replaced group commanders to be 65+ Air skill. I am relying on these guys to protect my CVs this turn while they're stuck in port because of my error of omission.

5: CVs...

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< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 7/4/2014 3:34:02 AM >

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Post #: 50

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 2:38:07 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

Here's a look at the air losses. I've been proudly ahead of his total losses for the whole war, but the Air and Ground Loss disparity was irking me. Even after shooting down 150 planes off the coast of Japan, I was still a ways behind. Over the past week, I have completely closed the gap. On August 29, I was only 1 kill behind. Now I'm 2...

His Ops losses are extremely high as well. Focusing on attriting his air forces has become a strategic goal: more attrition = more HI spent... I'm not sure it will matter, but his rate of loss is so high (almost 1.5x mine) that I'm wondering if this will make a difference.

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RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 2:42:01 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

And here are air losses by type. Note the extremely large number of Jake losses to Ops.

I'm also guessing that with 232 Zeroes lost to A2A, largely over Allied bases or TFs, that his IJNAF fighter pilot quality is suffering. Especially since 50-70 A6M2s have been shot down by the "lowly" P-39D over the past 3 days.

Also of note:
Sally ops losses are 105 out of 158 total losses. Lily losses are 88 Ops out of 139 total. Nell and Betty are high also.

Only 23 Mavis lost to Ops. He must pay close attention to these units.

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Post #: 52

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 8:09:20 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Wow. Getting interesting. Those P-38s could be your saving grace there. They do awfully well against the A6M.

Curious to find out what happens here. He could also try for a move to the South to cut off your possible retreat, sending him to far out and past you.

May the force be with you!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 53

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 2:18:25 PM

Crackaces

Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

I'm also guessing that with 232 Zeroes lost to A2A, largely over Allied bases or TFs,
that his IJNAF fighter pilot quality is suffering

In looking at AAR's that have made it late into the game -- it's the Allies that are hurting for pilots not the IJ.
It seems the IJ do not experience the pilot training difficulties of the "real" war in the pacific.

The Achilles Heel in the late game seems to be supply and not Heavy Industry.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

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Post #: 54

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 2:40:06 PM

Bif1961

Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline

I ran a game and lost a cruiser with 4 floatplanes 2 set for asw and 2 not flying. After the cruiser was sunk in an air attack the FPs showed up as 2 losses as ground loses and 2 as OP loses.

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Post #: 55

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 2:40:18 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
The Achilles Heel in the late game seems to be supply and not Heavy Industry.

I agree.

The question is then what causes the supply shortage: too aggressive plane r&d, switching factories, excessive plane factory builds; failure to protect industry production on the home islands; excessive land operations early backed by heavy use of the air force and navy. A combination of all three?

I miss Captain Crufts AAR which was always innovative and interesting and was getting to the crunch period.

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Post #: 56

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 3:29:02 PM

Crackaces

Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
The Achilles Heel in the late game seems to be supply and not Heavy Industry.

I agree.

The question is then what causes the supply shortage: too aggressive plane r&d, switching factories, excessive plane factory builds; failure to protect industry production on the home islands; excessive land operations early backed by heavy use of the air force and navy. A combination of all three?

I miss Captain Crufts AAR which was always innovative and interesting and was getting to the crunch period.

Each AAR seems to have it's own flavor but I would concur that huge IJ land operations that require oodles
of supplies to push supplies deep into either India or OZ (or both!), and China can lead to a late game deficit.
Depending on operational tempo LCU's moving and doing things suck supplies that are lost in transit.

But .. one thing is clear .. replacements take supplies. The places where replacements are taken need at least 25K
of supplies. So I might propose it is not pilots that are the problem, but replacing airframes and LCU's that suck
up supplies insidiously. If combat is occurring in remote islands/atolls it is quite possible to sink supply ships
so critical to replacing losses. This seems to be the crux and it is very insidious. That is everything is going
great for the IJ when one day on one front supplies are in a crunch.

I think this is one factor the Allies can influence. That is operational tempo, and replacement losses.
The IJ can build infinite airframes but unless there is enough supply the planes stay in the pool

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

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Post #: 57

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 3:36:14 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

Sadly (?) KB ran back to the northwest. No battle. All that prep and documentation for nothing

. If I hadn't needed to refuel (one of the CV TFs was down to 50-hex endurance), I would have sought out a battle with my CV TFs just ESE of Luganville, and all of my 4Es on naval strike. There's no guarantee that the 4Es would have struck first and worn down his CAP, just a chance.

Unless he resized the air groups, I figured the forces to be:
USN - 146 Wildcats, 176 SBDs, 75 TBFs
IJN - 162 Zeroes, 162 Vals, 126 Kates

It's possible that Hiyo/Junyo are around, or that it's MKB following KB around, but from his movement speed (8 hexes per turn) and his previous strikes being around the level of simply KB, I'm guessing that MKB is separate. I still don't know which Hiyo/Junyo belong to, however.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

I'm also guessing that with 232 Zeroes lost to A2A, largely over Allied bases or TFs,
that his IJNAF fighter pilot quality is suffering

In looking at AAR's that have made it late into the game -- it's the Allies that are hurting for pilots not the IJ.
It seems the IJ do not experience the pilot training difficulties of the "real" war in the pacific.

The Achilles Heel in the late game seems to be supply and not Heavy Industry.

I agree, but his aircraft losses are still very high. If I can put pressure on HI as well, then he's got 2 bottlenecks. I'm a little skeptical on whether it's possible, but it might be.

On the pilots thing, I meant the good KB ones - by and large, they're 70+ Exp and 70+ skill in at least 2 skills. That's really hard to replace.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

I ran a game and lost a cruiser with 4 floatplanes 2 set for asw and 2 not flying. After the cruiser was sunk in an air attack the FPs showed up as 2 losses as ground loses and 2 as OP loses.

The 2 to ops would be the ones in the air, and the 2 ground the ones still on the cruiser.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Wow. Getting interesting. Those P-38s could be your saving grace there. They do awfully well against the A6M.

Curious to find out what happens here. He could also try for a move to the South to cut off your possible retreat, sending him to far out and past you.

May the force be with you!

I'm actually finding my lowly P-39D's to be the Zero killer. The P-38s do just fine on sweep, I suppose, but the P-39s are absolutely ripping up the Zeroes on CAP. It helps that I have 64 Air skill leaders in each Cobra group, plus 65+ Exp/70+ Air pilots.

(in reply to Crackaces)

Post #: 58

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 3:38:06 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
The Achilles Heel in the late game seems to be supply and not Heavy Industry.

I agree.

The question is then what causes the supply shortage: too aggressive plane r&d, switching factories, excessive plane factory builds; failure to protect industry production on the home islands; excessive land operations early backed by heavy use of the air force and navy. A combination of all three?

I miss Captain Crufts AAR which was always innovative and interesting and was getting to the crunch period.

Each AAR seems to have it's own flavor but I would concur that huge IJ land operations that require oodles
of supplies to push supplies deep into either India or OZ (or both!), and China can lead to a late game deficit.
Depending on operational tempo LCU's moving and doing things suck supplies that are lost in transit.

But .. one thing is clear .. replacements take supplies. The places where replacements are taken need at least 25K
of supplies. So I might propose it is not pilots that are the problem, but replacing airframes and LCU's that suck
up supplies insidiously. If combat is occurring in remote islands/atolls it is quite possible to sink supply ships
so critical to replacing losses. This seems to be the crux and it is very insidious. That is everything is going
great for the IJ when one day on one front supplies are in a crunch.

I think this is one factor the Allies can influence. That is operational tempo, and replacement losses.
The IJ can build infinite airframes but unless there is enough supply the planes stay in the pool

My only concern with trying to do this is in keeping pools of my own... It's why I chose to use the P-39 so heavily. I get plenty of those. Wildcats are precious right now, however. Only a very few (I think 6) of my VMF groups have any.

(in reply to Crackaces)

Post #: 59

RE: Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - N... - 7/4/2014 4:16:48 PM

Crackaces

Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

My only concern with trying to do this is in keeping pools of my own... It's why I chose to use the P-39 so heavily. I get plenty of those. Wildcats are precious right now, however. Only a very few (I think 6) of my VMF groups have any.

I like to train a pool of P39 pilots to do low naval bombing. Seems crazy .. but they carry a 500 pound bomb and if I plan
to engage the IJ in the close quarters areas like the Solomon's or DEI a huge flight of B25's and P39's attacking
DD's and CL's can leave a mark. Even attacking bigger ships like BB's can result in some damage.

The point about pools is well taken. Many players assume that production and OOB follow an historical track. As mentioned
before the IJ can produce a lot of platforms ...

One thing .. given that the IJ typically have to cover a huge front and the Allies attack some narrow front
I find it easy for the IJ to transfer better pilots to the narrow front while keeping lessor pilots to cover the rest. It does not take many to match the Allies and training
algorithms in the game allow the IJ to train pilots readily -- thus the Allies face experience even late in the war.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

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Post #: 60

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