Command ASW Gameplay Tips

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Command ASW Gameplay Tips

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> The War Room >> Command ASW Gameplay Tips

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 4/28/2014 1:45:08 AM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline

1. If the scenario is ASW. Consider turning the contact report popups on in your game options. This lets you accelerate time and not get hosed by a torpedo attack or sudden contact as the game is stopped when the dialog launches.

2.Consider what your adversary is and what it might be doing. Diesels slow, nukes fast (generally:) If they're on ASW missions they will likely to be deep and look deep. If they're hunting surface subs they will be shallow. If doing both (sea control) they may be bouncing.

3.Read D's Understanding Depth Bands and the Thermal Layer article at the end of the manual. Pay special attention to towed sonar behaviors based on your depth.

4.Remember that you can deploy sonobuoys deep by using shift + the [ or ] key.

5. A good surface ship and helo hunter/killer setup is to assign the surface ship to an asw patrol mission and the embarked helo to a asw strike mission. The warship typically has good sonar to get the initial hits. Your helo will then launch, refine the detection and prosecute.

6. Remember that you can click and drag to refine your patrol zones. You can also hit the f3 key when a ship is on a mission to force it to replot somewhere else within the zone.

Please do post any good tips that you find to help each other out!

_____________________________

Post #: 1

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 4/30/2014 9:57:25 AM

mcp5500

Posts: 143
Joined: 2/2/2014
Status: offline

In command, with a SSN that can pickup sound from a convergence zone, I sprint and drift half the distance of 1 convergence zone. A zone is about 35 miles ( sound goes down, and because of preasureization bends back up and hits the shallow water 35 miles away. This only works in deep water). I mark my position with a reference mark and then start my sprint. When the marker gets in the middle between the sub and the zone, I slow or stop. After I slow, I clear my baffles, go to different depths to detect any contacts. After I am sure there are no contacts, I mark my position again and I start my sprint again. I sprint at 20-25 knots ( 20 when using caution and 25 when I really have to get somewhere in a hurry). I hope this helps.

< Message edited by mcp5500 -- 4/30/2014 11:12:36 AM >

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 2

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 5/3/2014 2:09:52 AM

Chicharito19

Posts: 271
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline

Thank you for the information. I found some more information at HarpGamer that looks promising as well. Although its for Harpoon, I assume some of it is useful in CMANO as well.

(in reply to mcp5500)

Post #: 3

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 5/3/2014 1:47:00 PM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline

In terms of game play and sensor models it wouldn't help at all. The games are too different in that regard.

You might be able to pick up some higher level theory stuff which would definitely help.

Mike

_____________________________

(in reply to Chicharito19)

Post #: 4

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 5/3/2014 2:34:17 PM

Chicharito19

Posts: 271
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline

Yep. I am looking for theory.

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 5

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 5/25/2014 1:01:50 PM

DirtyFred

Posts: 99
Joined: 5/22/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chicharito19

Yep. I am looking for theory.

look here:
http www dtic mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/832058.pdf

and
http www aticourses com/sampler/Sonar_Principles_ASW_Analysis_CourseSampler.pdf

< Message edited by DirtyFred -- 5/25/2014 2:08:19 PM >

(in reply to Chicharito19)

Post #: 6

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 6/5/2014 6:25:04 PM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

This might come handy:

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014-06/hunt-full-spectrum-asw

Not that much about tactics, but strategy.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 6/5/2014 7:31:51 PM >

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to DirtyFred)

Post #: 7

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 6/5/2014 9:10:49 PM

Feltan

Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

This might come handy:

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014-06/hunt-full-spectrum-asw

Not that much about tactics, but strategy.

Sardaukar,

Nice to see a former/current WITP'er here!

I read the article you posted, and thanks. It was interesting, but a bit disturbing to me as well.

Disturbing in this sense: If you can find and sink submarines, much of the "full spectrum" becomes redundant or unnecessary. If you can't find and sink submarines (which this article suggests is the real problem), then the "full spectrum" becomes an excuse for failure. I don't think anyone will argue that any one of the ten points is bad -- they all seem worthwhile. However, if you can't execute on the main mission of ASW, finding and killing submarines, then the rest is fluff -- just window dressing to obscure the fact that you are weak.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 8

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 8/14/2014 10:18:09 PM

magi

Posts: 1529
Joined: 2/1/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

This might come handy:

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014-06/hunt-full-spectrum-asw

Not that much about tactics, but strategy.

Very interesting.... A lot of reading between the lines though.......

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 9

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 10/24/2014 5:40:34 PM

poosd

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/26/2014
Status: offline

Ok all you ASW types. I just played a scenario in which I wasted a dozen or so DIFAR's and a lot of helicopter fuel, not to mention took all my ASW screen out of position
chasing "Biological". I knew this game was sophisticated...but BIOLOGICALS! That's great! I went back in to the database and found their entries
...TUNA..WHALES...OCRAS....OH MY!
Now, it is my understanding that RW sonar types usually have orders to ignore biological targets when searching (let me know if that's not correct), anyone got any
suggestions on how to "quickly" ID these types so as not to waste so much time and resources on them?

Different topic...sometimes when I set a course for a unit, then move a waypoint, I get a red diamond symbol and a dashed line leading from the unit to the red diamond. I don't
know what I did to create that, or what it is, but when I try to change the course line, the change only takes place from the red diamond, not the entire segment.
I'll also see the dashed line and diamond when I have a mission going and a unit assigend to it.
A page number in the manual or a quick explanation on what this is and how to use it would be appreciated.

Hey Devs*** Any hints on when the next DB updates will be out? Or when 1.05 NON Beta will be ready?
Great game....You guys rock!

Thanks,
Dean

(in reply to magi)

Post #: 10

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 10/24/2014 7:11:27 PM

dmh0667FU

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/26/2014
Status: offline

"...TUNA..WHALES...OCRAS....OH MY!"

I usually like my ocras breaded with corn meal and deep fried......mmmmm. YMMV

"Now, it is my understanding that RW sonar types usually have orders to ignore biological targets when searching (let me know if that's not correct), anyone got any
suggestions on how to "quickly" ID these types so as not to waste so much time and resources on them?"

I'm neither a ex-Submariner nor an ASW expert, but what I've gathered from playing CMANO is that if it's maintaining a relatively low speed, steady heading, and a shallow depth, even when you're dropping active sonobouys around it, it's probably a biological which is wondering what's all these pinging little non-fish thingies all over the place?

"page number in the manual or a quick explanation on what this is and how to use it would be appreciated."

Also curious as to this.

(in reply to poosd)

Post #: 11

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 10/24/2014 7:22:00 PM

poosd

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/26/2014
Status: offline

dmh0667FU...

Ah yes.....read...re-read, and proof read yet again...the post before hitting send! "Orcas"....they even have a pretty picture in the database!
No...the picture is of a killer whale....not of a southern fired veggie! I wonder what Okra sounds like to a sonar?

Thanks for the reply
Dean

(in reply to dmh0667FU)

Post #: 12

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 10/24/2014 9:08:12 PM

Coiler12

Posts: 1203
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: poosd

Ok all you ASW types. I just played a scenario in which I wasted a dozen or so DIFAR's and a lot of helicopter fuel, not to mention took all my ASW screen out of position
chasing "Biological". I knew this game was sophisticated...but BIOLOGICALS! That's great! I went back in to the database and found their entries
...TUNA..WHALES...OCRAS....OH MY!
Now, it is my understanding that RW sonar types usually have orders to ignore biological targets when searching (let me know if that's not correct), anyone got any
suggestions on how to "quickly" ID these types so as not to waste so much time and resources on them?

Use "N" or "F" to mark them as friendly or neutral.

(in reply to poosd)

Post #: 13

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 10/25/2014 2:10:41 AM

pmarvin

Posts: 19
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

This newcomer (played Harpoon...this is way better) appreciates the lesson. Having a LOT of trouble prosecuting subs. Will distill my issues to two:
1. Sub contacts "jump" all over the place. I understand that the sonar operator will hear a sub vaguely, such that it appears one place one time and another place next time. But would an operator hear an Akula at an approx. bearing of 10 deg, then hear the same Akula at a bearing of 180 deg? Said another way: how do you interpret a sub contact "jumping" all over the screen?
2. When I DO get a sub's location narrowed down, and send Orions to an area to prosecute, they just fly around without effect. What should be the "instructions" to fixed-wing ASW aircraft to optimize finding and killing a sub?

Many thanks.

Pete

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 14

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 10/25/2014 1:56:56 PM

scottb613

Posts: 186
Joined: 8/9/2014
Status: offline

Hi Folks,

Biologics - wow - I am impressed - LOL - great PIX in the database... All you're missing is "Crackling Shrimp" - probably the most common biologics out there... Biologics are easily identifiable by the sonar team and you wouldn't spend much time tracking them...

I know the contacts jumping around with passive tracking has been discussed a bunch... As for submarines with passive tracking - from the point you pick up a contact to the point you have a good idea as to where the contact is should take about 20 mins... Initial detection is usually on the towed array just because it's just that much better than the other sensors... Keep in mind that the towed array provides a bearing and also the 180 degree out reciprocal bearing to a contact - which initially you don't know which bearing is the true bearing... Typically I would probably run a 10 to 15 minute leg (constant course and speed) to develop a good track - then do a major course change to start a second leg... It's probably a few minutes into this second leg that you know - which bearing (resolving bearing ambiguity) - is the true contact - at this point in time the bearing to the contact should be solid and you may start getting a feel for range... After another 10 minutes or so on the second leg - I would start a third leg with a new course... It's during this third leg that you would start providing a valid firing solution - close enough for a 48 - knowing the contacts course, speed, and range... Of course this time can vary due to the quality of your Fire Control Tracking Team, if you drop track, or the contact zigs...

As for the P-3's - are you dropping sonobuoys to locate the sub - above and below the layer ??? Also the default altitudes on planes are like 40K... I don't know how detailed the MAD gear is modeled in Command - but - in order to get a detection with MAD you should be low and slow...

Regards,
Scott

< Message edited by scottb613 -- 10/25/2014 4:03:06 PM >

(in reply to pmarvin)

Post #: 15

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 10/27/2014 2:45:16 PM

pmarvin

Posts: 19
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

Thanks Scott!

Of COURSE (palm slaps forehead)...I've read elsewhere that a towed array picks up a contact at reciprocal bearings. That explains much of the "jumping" effect.
As to employment of Orions: Have done it 2 ways: --make a "new mission", drawing an AOI around the sub's approx. location and assigning a couple of aircraft to an ASW patrol mission. I expect them then to drop their own sonobuoys; which they do...they just never fire torpedoes.
--manually fly over the area at 1000ft, dropping buoys both above and below the layer, covering as much of the area as possible. This sometimes narrows the contact's uncertainty region, but I can still never acquire a solution sufficient for a torpedo. This leaves me dropping bearing-only attacks from several angles, none of which has scored a hit. Thoughts?
Pete

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 16

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 10/27/2014 7:14:24 PM

CV32

Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chicharito19
Thank you for the information. I found some more information at HarpGamer that looks promising as well. Although its for Harpoon, I assume some of it is useful in CMANO as well.

If you haven't already (and it sounds like you may have), there is quite a bit of background material on ASW in the Tactics 101 series at HarpGamer.

Tactics 101: Anti-Submarine Warfare

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Chicharito19)

Post #: 17

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 3/21/2015 1:18:05 AM

cf_dallas

Posts: 303
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Grapevine, TX
Status: offline

Questions that occurred to me while playing Battle Ocean 64 - North Sea ASW:

- If a plane or helo on patrol is dropping sonobuoys, is there a limit to the number of buoys it can 'monitor'? IE, the Shackletons in that scenario carry ~12 active and ~100 passive sonobuoys. Can the plane keep track of all of them at once?

- If there is a limit, is that noted in the DB somewhere?

- The Shackleton runs low on fuel and departs the scene (eventually..... after a very long time... ) leaving behind 50 passive sonobuoys with battery life remaining. Are those now worthless, or are they "picked up" by another aircraft arriving on-station?

_____________________________

Formerly cwemyss

(in reply to CV32)

Post #: 18

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 3/21/2015 6:24:19 AM

Sakai007

Posts: 279
Joined: 3/12/2012
Status: offline

If you look in the DB entry under communication systems, you will see aircraft that can carry the buoys have a sonobuoy receiver, and how many channels it has is how many buoys it can track at once. Dont know the answer to your last question.

(in reply to cf_dallas)

Post #: 19

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 3/21/2015 1:41:36 PM

cf_dallas

Posts: 303
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Grapevine, TX
Status: offline

I missed that.... thanks!

_____________________________

Formerly cwemyss

(in reply to Sakai007)

Post #: 20

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 6/9/2016 9:42:12 AM

Gunner98

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline

A tip I use:

I try and back up my ASW Ptl with an ASW Strike mission so if I have 3 AC available, two on patrol with quick turn-around can usually provide full time cover, and as soon as they find something the strike launches to provide reinforcement (limit the range so its not heading all over the map). I find that this speeds up the prosecution of a contact once its found.

B

(in reply to cf_dallas)

Post #: 21

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 6/15/2017 2:41:27 AM

cns180784

Posts: 447
Joined: 7/31/2015
Status: offline

Hi just enjoyed reading this again, as well as the Sub Ops- The Thin Blue Line thread. That Tactics 101- ASW article is a great read too. Just have a question;

So i can see how to create an ASW Patrol mission, so how do i create an ASW strike mission? would it be the same as an intercept mission?

(in reply to Gunner98)

Post #: 22

RE: Command ASW Gameplay Tips - 6/15/2017 7:22:10 AM

Gunner98

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline

Yes

ASW is just a few below on the drop-down menu. You can/should adjust the min/max range as well to prevent units from chasing whales 200 nm away or ganging up on something that already has 2 or 3 assets attacking it.

B

(in reply to cns180784)

Post #: 23