The World Wars

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The World Wars - 5/27/2014 1:24:08 AM

Connfire

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Anybody watching The World Wars on the History Channel? Looks like they're focusing on FDR, Churchill, Hitler, Stalin, and Patton, and how they were shaped by WWI. I'm only 20 minutes into it as I type this. Very gripping footage of trench warfare, armoured cars, etc.

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RE: The World Wars - 5/27/2014 2:13:46 AM

Jestre

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Dvr'ing it, gonna watch it all at once.

(in reply to Connfire)

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RE: The World Wars - 5/27/2014 2:52:56 AM

operating

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Thanks to your message, caught the last hour and half of the show.

(in reply to Connfire)

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RE: The World Wars - 5/27/2014 3:08:46 AM

Connfire

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The first hour and a half featured lots of combat reenactments, along with liberal doses of CGI and some photo and movie reels, of WWI. Mussolini and MacArthur were also featured. It held my attention for 2 hours, and I'll definitely watch Part II.

(in reply to operating)

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RE: The World Wars - 5/27/2014 4:00:35 PM

kevini1000

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I watched the program. I kind of wonder about the Zimmerman document. Why at that time would the German's be so stupid as to admit to such a thing?

This had more of an effect of bringing America into WWI than anything else. The entire thing seems like a set up for a cause for war. Mexico would never have been any realistic threat to America.

The German financial support and allowing Mexico to have 3 states would have been useless to Mexico.

< Message edited by sath -- 5/27/2014 5:02:19 PM >

(in reply to Connfire)

Post #: 5

RE: The World Wars - 5/27/2014 4:49:36 PM

Connfire

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From: Connecticut, USA
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quote:

I watched the program. I kind of wonder about the Zimmerman document. Why at that time would the German's be so stupid as to admit to such a thing?

I think they were a bit overconfident after knocking Russia out of the war. I also think they calculated America's entry into the war was a matter of when, not if, after they restarted unrestricted submarine warfare.

quote:

This had more of an effect of bringing America into WWI than anything else. The entire thing seems like a set up for a cause for war. Mexico would never have been any realistic threat to America.

Mexico by itself, no. Even with the pathetic strength of the US standing forces at the time, they couldn't have done much. But bear in mind there had been war scares against Mexico multiple times in the early 20th century, and the US did chase Pancho Villa across the border, as well as seize Veracruz for about 7 months in 1914. Also bear in mind that especially after the Spanish American War of 1898 and the subsequent Gunboat diplomacy there was a lot of anti-American feeling in Latin America.

Remember the Germans were in a race against time - moving their troops from the Eastern Front into the West, in an effort to overwhelm the Allies before the American Expeditionary Forces arrived in decisive numbers. With the size of the Army at the time, the USA would definitely have been delayed getting their forces to Europe if they had to beat back a German-supported attack on the southwest USA first. This could have bought the Germans the time they needed for a breakthrough on the Western Front.

quote:

The German financial support and allowing Mexico to have 3 states would have been useless to Mexico.

Again, even with German assistance Mexico probably would not have conquered the states outright. But it could have brought Mexico to the table if the victorious Central Powers dictated terms to the Allies, and that is how they'd have got their states back. In theory. It is not likely the USA would have allowed the States to go as part of a European Peace Treaty, but that could be resolved later. Mexico was to be a pawn to keep US reinforcements out of Europe.

Mexico had, and some segments of the population still have, a deep resentment of the USA for annexing Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. Look up "Aztlan" on Wikipedia and follow some of the links from there.

A good what-if book on the subject came out last year, called 1920, America's Great War by Robert Conroy. It is an alternate history, where the CP win WWI in 1915. Germany spends the next 5 years building up Mexico, until they attack in 1920. Just as in real life, the Mexicans are promised the 3 states. The Germans want California. Good summer reading book.

(in reply to kevini1000)

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RE: The World Wars - 5/27/2014 11:21:44 PM

operating

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World of Wars is on the History Channel again right now from 7-9 about WW1. 9-11 with follow up.

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RE: The World Wars - 5/29/2014 2:11:00 PM

Connfire

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Just wrapped up last night.

Overall I think WWI fans have a lot more to be happier about then WWII fans.

I think that Part 1 was very well done, with great reenactments, CGI, and commentary.

Part 2 was also good, but I think they left out some key parts. For instance, a pathetic Hitler goes to jail at the end of Part 1, and writes Mein Kampf. By the beginning of Part 2 he seems almost completely changed, and ready to take control of Germany. I wish they focused more on how this happened - they left out the Brownshirts, the Reichstag fire, and other key turning points entirely.

The same could be said for Winston Churchill - what was he doing between WWI and 1938? The documentary tells virtually nothing. They could have told us more about Stalin and Mussolini, too.

While still watchable, I think Part 3 was the weakest of them all - suddenly Tojo becomes someone we follow? I guess that was done so they'd have a Japanese character who survived the war. But they didn't mention Yamamoto at all, and almost made it sound like Tojo was making key naval decisions including masterminding Pearl Harbor, which was wrong. The tension between the Japanese Army and Navy also wasn't mentioned, either.

I wish they'd have done the stories of Montgomery, Rommel, Yamamoto, and Nimitz and/or Halsey.

Lastly, and I know I'm nitpicking here. I was a little frustrated by some of what I saw in Part 3. Did anyone notice that when Churchill picked up the phone to talk to Roosevelt about cooperating with Stalin it was a push button phone?! And they kept showing a modern Japanese Aegis destroyer as a stand-in for a Japanese battleship. Similarly they showed a 1970-1980s US carrier TF as the US Pacific fleet several times as well. I guess they ran out of money for the CGI budget. But I also saw footage from old movies occasionally used (like PT-109), so even if they used some CGI from Battle 360 it would have been preferable.

OK, despite was I'm saying above, I found the series largely enjoyable. The CGI and reenactments they did have were top notch, and the actors they had portraying the older and younger versions of the historical characters did a good job. The last scene of Hitler in the bunker, even though I think they took some creative liberties, was memorable. Even with the parts they skipped over, I'd watch it again.

At the end of the series they had a teaser saying there will be an extended version featuring 2 more episodes showing in 160 countries on H2 (History Channel 2) in late June. Personally, I think the series could have gone longer, so I'm optimistic that some of the gaps cited above will be filled.

(in reply to operating)

Post #: 8