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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat - Gateway to Caen >> Odd Results

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Odd Results - 6/8/2014 9:19:32 AM

goodwoodrw

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just played a scenario the result a similar number of VL = stalemate. Strangely enough my opponent gave up due to poor morale he lost tanks and a high % of his infantry, my casualties were light. It appears casualties are not a factor in victory just VL which is odd, because if you cleanup the opposition before you claim a majority of the VL the game becomes a draw. So no points for kills is that right?

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RE: Odd Results - 6/8/2014 7:35:35 PM

Tejszd

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You are correct that casualties/kills do not get you any points. It is VL's per map for battle results and number of maps on the strat layer for campaign results....

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RE: Odd Results - 6/9/2014 9:38:58 AM

goodwoodrw

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The scoring is really odd in this game. it appears when your task is to defend you still have to chase victory points. Just looked at one scenario there more VL scattered over the map than units. I think I've wasted my money on this one.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/9/2014 10:56:32 AM

KenchiSulla

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Just look at it this way, while you were fighting the platoon defending the area another platoon reinforced the area as you did not secure your flanks. It had space to move... Just adjust the way you approach the fights. Combat is often about pushing the enemy out of position and infiltrating in its rear, not plain destruction of enemy forces. That is the second phase...

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 6/9/2014 11:58:55 AM >

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RE: Odd Results - 6/9/2014 11:10:09 AM

v.Manstein

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If the morale threshold of all your units hits a certain level, your side is considered broken and you will lose even if there is still time left. If you hang on until the time runs out, the number of occupied victory locations kicks in to determine the victor.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/9/2014 12:29:38 PM

goodwoodrw

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I understand what your saying, however in a recent game I've played the enemy was routed, I can't remember the exact figures, but my morale was very high and the enemies very low. My force was hardly scratched and the enemies was decimated, and the scenario came to an end. The scoring result was a stalemate, because the controlled VL were split between the sides I won the game and lost on the scoreboard. War games that solely rely on VL points lack realism.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/9/2014 3:14:46 PM

Miro

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You're right, it is not good. Limit the number of VL to minimum. The fight will be more intense and the result is a more realistic.

< Message edited by Miro -- 6/9/2014 4:18:45 PM >

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RE: Odd Results - 6/9/2014 6:54:10 PM

Cathartes

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Battle, ops, campaign results are interpreted by the game to be related to ground (measured in VLs) taken. We all know that there is more to the results of the battle than just the ground taken, especially when playing an operation and campaign where attrition and strategic placement loom large. Veteran players of the series generally discount this in operations and campaigns because you are never "winning" an operation or campaign if you need to still take a large amount of maps and ground. For single battles I hear your frustration, but this is the system we have and can't change at this point.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/10/2014 12:51:18 AM

Tejszd

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You can turn off morale to stop the scenario you described from happening but it tends to make operations/campaigns to easy against the AI. Also in operations/campaigns the results on a single map are not the primary concern as casualties over time are important as you can deplete BG's make future battles easier.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/24/2014 8:57:40 PM

Saturnian

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Though I see your point it isn't exactly like anything even happens if you win, anyway. Granted it USED to say "The allied(or German) forces took excessive losses" but otherwise all it comes down to is a little text on the screen. The number of kills you inflicted are there for you to relish in at the campaign summary.

What I find unrealistic is how whole massive battlegroups can be destroyed when only like 5% or less of their force is engaged in battle. That, to me, is really unrealistic.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/24/2014 10:30:33 PM

newts2339

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The 5% or less of the force is a simulation of what is likely occurring all along the Front. There is obviously no way to fight a battle with the entire BG available. So, therefore, that small force has to represent the entire BG.

If you are playing against the AI then I guess you can let the unit fight on another day, as I do, in order to not get into unrealistic play. That way you can really test your abilities. The other day I lost 4 Panthers in a single battle to some unseen 17lb and some lucky hits, I assume, from the enemy tanks. I came back with the one remaining Panther to at least get a truce in place. I play for the fun of playing and not to really to see if I can clear the board. I also go for numbers trying to get as many tank kills as possible versus few losses of my one. Not so easy to do.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/25/2014 12:59:39 AM

Tejszd

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On morale break a BG can retreat if it holds an exit VL to unoccupied map.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/25/2014 1:40:54 AM

Cathartes

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quote:

What I find unrealistic is how whole massive battlegroups can be destroyed when only like 5% or less of their force is engaged in battle. That, to me, is really unrealistic.

They aren't destroyed. They suffer vehicle losses if they retreat without supply or holding an exit VL, but they do return the next day.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/25/2014 10:45:03 PM

Saturnian

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quote:

aren't destroyed. They suffer vehicle losses if they retreat without supply or holding an exit VL, but they do return the next day.

I mean when they have nowhere to go.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/26/2014 3:23:04 PM

Cathartes

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they are not destroyed even if they have nowhere to go. BGs will return the next day at the 0600 hour turn. If out of supply and/or fuel when they disband, they will have losses as a result of the disbanding.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/27/2014 11:23:10 PM

Saturnian

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wow, I never noticed that

. That explains the phantom battlegroups that have appeared from time to time. Still doesn't make all that much sense but it is better than completely losing them. so what happens if the maps are full? Does the battlegroup just appear when the map has room?

< Message edited by Saturnian -- 6/28/2014 12:24:11 AM >

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RE: Odd Results - 6/28/2014 3:48:19 AM

Jonathan Pollard

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I don't know what happens when the maps are full but to prevent your map from getting full you can merge your battlegroups, it's one of the options available when you right click on them.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/28/2014 1:37:55 PM

Cathartes

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quote:

so what happens if the maps are full? Does the battlegroup just appear when the map has room?

From the Manual, Section 18.16:
Battle Groups forced off the map by retreat or disbanding return during the morning turn of the following day, and attempt to re-enter the map as close as possible to their previous location. If the Reinforcement Battle Group is trying to arrive on a designated map, but cannot because there are too many friendly Battle Groups on the map already, it finds the closest open �friendly� supply depot to its planned arrival map and arrives there. If a Battle Group cannot find a map to enter on, its arrival is postponed and it will try again the follow turn until it is able to enter the Strategic Map. Note: If a Battle Group�s arrival map is enemy controlled, the Battle Group attacks onto the map via the �off-map� entry Victory Location for their side.

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RE: Odd Results - 6/29/2014 12:22:45 AM

Saturnian

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quote:

know what happens when the maps are full but to prevent your map from getting full you can merge your battlegroups, it's one of the options available when you right click on them.

thanks. I suppose I should have taken the time to do that in the first place

It still irks me that a battlegroup has to go through all that because of the actions of such a small fraction of the force, though. In real life more troops would be committed to battle the whole force would just vanish for a little while and then reemerge. But I know it is a game and all. still though... grrr

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