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Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/15/2014 9:37:45 PM

warzer

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I was in a protractedly long war with other empires and the pirates got out of hand during that time. Is there a way to automate the destruction of the planetside pirate bases? After the war I have over 100 colonies and 70 ish have pirate bases on them now. Dealing with them a few at a time does not seem to be working as for every few I get rid of more pop up.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/15/2014 9:41:11 PM

Bingeling

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Apart from maybe automating some stuff, there is no way but the manual way. You seem to lack a bit in pirate protection :)

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/15/2014 9:43:29 PM

btd64

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Start building planetary shields at those colonies. When the shield is finished, Take em out.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/16/2014 12:36:33 AM

ldog

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Does the shield do anything against pirates? 2 infantry and a PD unit for garrison seem to stop new bases from popping up.
Clearing bases 5 infantry wins pretty reliably. Armor is better of course. Combined arms better still.
Easiest way I know is to hit F2, click facilitys, go down the line selecting and clicking attack button.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/16/2014 3:55:12 PM

btd64

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What the shield will do is prevent them from landing troops on the surface and starting to build pirate bases again. So after the pirates are destroyed, if the shield is finished the problem is fixed.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/16/2014 8:12:00 PM

rcuadro

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I'll try this and see if it works. Thank you for the tip.

quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

What the shield will do is prevent them from landing troops on the surface and starting to build pirate bases again. So after the pirates are destroyed, if the shield is finished the problem is fixed.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 5:12:47 AM

FingNewGuy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warzer

I was in a protractedly long war with other empires and the pirates got out of hand during that time. Is there a way to automate the destruction of the planetside pirate bases? After the war I have over 100 colonies and 70 ish have pirate bases on them now. Dealing with them a few at a time does not seem to be working as for every few I get rid of more pop up.

Don't forget to be mindful of how much maintenance costs on all those Planetary Shields will be also. Might want to do some Pirate elimination too.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 8:04:57 AM

Kantay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

What the shield will do is prevent them from landing troops on the surface and starting to build pirate bases again. So after the pirates are destroyed, if the shield is finished the problem is fixed.

How does a planetary shield stop pirates from landing troops?

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 1:55:27 PM

FingNewGuy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kantay

quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

What the shield will do is prevent them from landing troops on the surface and starting to build pirate bases again. So after the pirates are destroyed, if the shield is finished the problem is fixed.

How does a planetary shield stop pirates from landing troops?

Good question! All I can find in documentation says that Planetary Shields protect planet from bombardment. Although Facilities add a defensive bonus to ground battles...

< Message edited by FingNewGuy -- 6/17/2014 3:11:20 PM >

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 2:11:14 PM

Bingeling

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In my playing, pirates stop being an issue way before planetary shields are available. This is in part because slow research gives late arrival of planetary shields, but mostly because chasing pirate is a top priority of mine. If I somehow had planetary shields at the start of the game, I fail to see why they should help.

To build hidden facilities, pirates need influence on the colony. They gain this by raiding (only successful raids?) and by "hanging about" at the colony with their ships. If they don't get there in the first place, they won't hang about or raid, so bust their nearby bases. Nearby as in 2-3 sectors away. If they are annoying and you don't know where they are based, use any mix of spies (steal territory maps) and long range scanners to figure out where they are. If they are not allowed to "hang about", and don't frequently raid, their influence of the colony should drop enough that they can't build any hidden facilities.

It can be very hard to keep them away from all colonies if they are nearby. Try avoid colonizing more than you can keep control of, you don't want a bunch of tiny colonies when pirates roam the skies.

If you suspect that you may have hidden facilities being built, visit the colony list regularly. It should give a quick overview that shows if there is any hidden base present. Pirate bases ought to only be at colonies without other facilities.. The one at Dila 3 should be easy to see in the image below, and they always look like this (with no custom images, of course):

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 4:14:21 PM

FingNewGuy

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quote:

In my playing, pirates stop being an issue way before planetary shields are available.

My experience as well. I used to not like Pirates in my games; now I really enjoy hunting them and taking them out. And as the game says, they DO have their uses.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 5:35:57 PM

thefinn12345

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Pirates don't need to land troops to create a pirate base.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 6:43:18 PM

Tormodino

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I suggested this in the other thread, and it seems the be the less popular option, but auto-recruitment of troops lets the AI handle most pirate bases reliably. It's probably wasteful, but it is an alternative to constantly microing troops to take them out. This is not foolproof, and some intervention is still necessary to remove entrenched pirate factions.

Buffing pirate hideout troop numbers, and possibly making them slightly more rare, could be a good way to make the job of removing them slightly more interesting. Just a thought.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 6:58:43 PM

Nanaki

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tormodino
Buffing pirate hideout troop numbers, and possibly making them slightly more rare, could be a good way to make the job of removing them slightly more interesting. Just a thought.

Mercenaries are supposed to have a +30% bonus to defending facilities and Smugglers are supposed to have +70%, but these bonuses are currently not working.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 7:01:08 PM

Tormodino

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Yeah. They do seem a bit squishy. Still. I would really like them to be a bigger danger, with fewer bases overall. Right now it's a bit of a headache to try to whack them.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 7:33:13 PM

FingNewGuy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tormodino

Yeah. They do seem a bit squishy. Still. I would really like them to be a bigger danger, with fewer bases overall. Right now it's a bit of a headache to try to whack them.

It's a fun headache...combats boredom.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 7:35:36 PM

Tormodino

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Each to our own, I suppose :) I'd rather my descisions in DW were fewer and more significant.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 7:40:39 PM

FingNewGuy

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Which decisions in DW are NOT significant?

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 7:45:06 PM

Tormodino

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Ah, yes... More signficant. I would rather whack 10 pirate bases in large planetary battle where there is a real chance I could lose control of said planet than 100 bases in minor skirmishes requiring tons of clicks, but with no loss of anything other than micromanagement time. Just a personal preference.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 7:48:22 PM

FingNewGuy

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I see.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 7:48:27 PM

Bingeling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FingNewGuy

Which decisions in DW are NOT significant?

"Hm, should I put the mine on the 64% steel and 38% gold, or the 58% steel and 45% gold asteroid of the capital system asteroid field?"

Pirates can be either an interesting challenge, or a nuisance. Handling a lot of nuisance is not fun, overcoming challenges is. Remembering to disable respawning pirates is step one in avoiding pirate nuisances.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 7:49:38 PM

FingNewGuy

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 10:45:36 PM

pkoko

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If you have protection agreement with pirates, Can you take out their bases? Also, The pirate faction in my game is very powerful and protection only costs 165 cr a month. So it doesn't make sense for me to fight them. Is there any disadvantage in letting the pirate remain friends?

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 10:58:24 PM

Tormodino

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I get some pretty good results from having them fight each other, so I would say not always.
On the other hand, they are annoying once they start spamming ships. Smacking them early and hard allows you to expand without having to deal with them.

You can certainly manipulate the pirates, and at a certain point your economy will certainly be strong enough to pay them all off. Then you can take out one after the other at your leisure.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 11:23:38 PM

Tehlongone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pkoko

If you have protection agreement with pirates, Can you take out their bases? Also, The pirate faction in my game is very powerful and protection only costs 165 cr a month. So it doesn't make sense for me to fight them. Is there any disadvantage in letting the pirate remain friends?

You can take out their bases yes, but the moment you attack the treaty is void, so... :)

I've sometimes allowed one to remain for a while until I had the fleets to comfortably destroy them fast. Problem with keeping them is that there are hidden costs in their presence. That is, corruption in your colonies and even if they don't attack your freighters they still attack those of your trading partners. They also take up space and burn fuel.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/17/2014 11:26:34 PM

Aeson

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quote:

How does a planetary shield stop pirates from landing troops?

Couldn't say, although it is possible that assault pods count as a bombardment weapon. Alternatively, planetary shields may count as a shield with sufficient strength to be impenetrable to the boarding pod (if you examine the boarding pod descriptions, there is a line in there that refers to the maximum shield strength that the pods can penetrate).

I can nevertheless confirm that planetary shields do in fact appear to prevent raids, as I spawned a colony with a Planetary Shield in my starting system as a pirate and then gave myself about a dozen warships equipped with boarding pods, stuck them in a fleet, and ordered them to raid the planet. Despite the lack of troops on the planet and my ships making repeated passes over the world with 'raid planet' orders, no boarding pods were launched and no raiders appeared on the planet's surface.

quote:

Also, The pirate faction in my game is very powerful and protection only costs 165 cr a month. So it doesn't make sense for me to fight them. Is there any disadvantage in letting the pirate remain friends?

Paying the pirates 165 credits per month is about 2000 credits off your cashflow, and probably only covers the maintenance of one small pirate ship. This is nevertheless 2000 credits that you could be using to fund your own military, and 2000 credits that the pirate faction doesn't need to come up with from other sources. Long-term, you're better off building up a space navy and crushing all pirates (dead pirates can't go back on their agreements, after all), as protection agreements also give the pirates license to keep their warships hanging around at your colonies, which allows them to build up control at the planet and thus build hidden bases, hidden fortresses, and eventually criminal networks (although any world with more than a few billion inhabitants is more or less immune to pirate control, as at that population level passive gains in control from orbiting vessels are typically outstripped by natural reductions in control level due to the planet's populace); control also grants pirates some portion of the planetary income, which may siphon off some of your taxes and will help the pirates stay strong. Short-term, 2000 credits per year for 'protection' from a strong pirate faction isn't a bad deal, and may be worth maintaining until you've made your fleets ready to make a move against the pirate faction or until someone else cripples this group of pirates.

quote:

If you have protection agreement with pirates, Can you take out their bases?

Yes. As with any other entity, this will not necessarily cause your faction and the pirates to break off relations, but it may result in the cancellation of protection agreements as attacking or destroying ships and bases (including the hidden planetary bases) adds a malus to your relations rating with that pirate faction.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/18/2014 12:21:39 AM

Nanaki

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pkoko
If you have protection agreement with pirates, Can you take out their bases? Also, The pirate faction in my game is very powerful and protection only costs 165 cr a month. So it doesn't make sense for me to fight them. Is there any disadvantage in letting the pirate remain friends?

I am fairly sure you can attack their hidden bases on your planets without the protection agreement breaking, but nothing beyond that. The unfortunate bit is that no matter what pirates lose their oomph fairly rapidly as the game progresses, so you eventually reach a point where you can just smack around the pirates.

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/18/2014 12:26:29 AM

Tormodino

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Mostly correct, Nanaki, but I had a game where the pirates basically sieged me to death by camping and cleaning out the majority of my systems. It was surreal and quite cool. Even with some heavy micro I could not dislodge them. I had quite a few system, and my economy was ok, but I was not match for hundreds of tech equal pirate ships buzzing around and swatting any attempt at making a fleet.

Anyone have similar experiences? Most of the time they are a simply stomp away. If they consistently did what happened in that game they would be super scary :D

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RE: Handling Pirate bases on planets? - 6/18/2014 3:24:00 AM

Aeson

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quote:

I had quite a few system, and my economy was ok, but I was not match for hundreds of tech equal pirate ships buzzing around and swatting any attempt at making a fleet.

Anyone have similar experiences? Most of the time they are a simply stomp away. If they consistently did what happened in that game they would be super scary :D

This sort of thing happens occasionally, mostly when the pirates have lots of time to develop and corrupt independents, or when they can hit an empire hard and early. Often it means that the empires in the area were particularly slow to acquire warp tech and so were unable to field a navy capable of threatening the pirates at a point when the empires could have held back the pirates, and thus the pirates have run away with the independents and might still be exacting significant tributes from the planetary empires as "protection." It can also happen if you agree to pay the larger protection fees and leave them going too long, or in regions where there aren't any planetary empires but are a fair number of independents.

In this type of situation, my suggestion would be to see if you can get a strong enough set of defensive bases up around your main colony (or colonies, but you probably shouldn't be having this problem across your whole empire if you have multiple colonies unless it's legendary pirates) to allow you to build construction ships or resupply ships that you've outfitted as heavy battleships, and keep any warships and construction ships you do manage to build close to the defensive bases (yes, this means babysitting them, but it's not like you have much else to do if you're being overrun by pirates). If it's only a regional issue (e.g. a new expansion that's a bit far from your original cluster), build up a comparable fleet at home and send it over with some resupply ships to act as fueling stations. I would also tend to say that it's probably not worth paying protection fees at this point, as the pirates aren't honoring them if they're knocking your fleets out and so all it's doing is funding the very pirates who are causing your issues. Large garrisons can reduce raiding success, but if you're really facing hundreds of pirate ships you'd probably require unreasonably strong garrisons to properly defend each colony. If there are multiple pirate factions in the region, you can try getting them to fight one another and weaken them enough to get your fleet off the ground that way.

< Message edited by Aeson -- 6/18/2014 4:25:06 AM >

(in reply to Tormodino)

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