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RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st

 
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RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/6/2014 7:48:48 AM   
MikeGER

 

Posts: 379
Joined: 2/1/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP

I also took command of a company, so there's not much free time for anything anymore. Getting to play wargames in real life, with real people and vehicles is just as fun, though!

I hope you never have to bring your wargaming skills to bear in real life ...the planet is a political mess

i am burning to hear your evaluation as a active duty professional on 'realistic behavior' of the game.
maybe in a percentage scale, when you had some time with the upcoming 2.04
i am optimistic it will land in the 90ies? ...if not, the Devs will further refine it to that level in 2.1


< Message edited by MikeGER -- 7/6/2014 8:55:54 AM >

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 31
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/6/2014 2:03:43 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Those could be done now with the units we currently have.

In fact, I think MikeAP could be working on something along those lines.

Good Hunting.

MR



I was working on a modern OPFOR ORBAT - not so much Middle East specific. It is the same ORBAT used for the OPFOR at the US Army maneuver career course.

Since March I've taken a break from the game. The Sudden Death rule was making it impossible to win any offensive operation for the campaign I had planned.

I also took command of a company, so there's not much free time for anything anymore. Getting to play wargames in real life, with real people and vehicles is just as fun, though!


Congratulations on your command!! I wish you the best with them.

I've got a new 10 scenario campaign coming out with the 2.04 release. I think you'll like the way Sudden Death works now. Much improved.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 32
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/6/2014 2:18:42 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeGER

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP

I also took command of a company, so there's not much free time for anything anymore. Getting to play wargames in real life, with real people and vehicles is just as fun, though!

I hope you never have to bring your wargaming skills to bear in real life ...the planet is a political mess

i am burning to hear your evaluation as a active duty professional on 'realistic behavior' of the game.
maybe in a percentage scale, when you had some time with the upcoming 2.04
i am optimistic it will land in the 90ies? ...if not, the Devs will further refine it to that level in 2.1



Mike's opinion of our assessment of the equipment, especially US equipment, is at extreme variance with our view. I don't expect to get to the 90% range with him for that reason alone. But it would be nice to the views of another active duty officer.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/6/2014 3:19:13 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to MikeGER)
Post #: 33
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/6/2014 3:34:13 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		MikeAP,

When you get a free minute, can you elaborate more on "The Sudden Death rule was making it impossible to win any offensive operation for the campaign I had planned". I'm curious what the details of this problem are with 2.1 work on the horizon. Hopefully the new SD rules in 2.04 will also take care of any issues, but I'd still like to know the problems.

Thanks.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 34
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/6/2014 10:01:14 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

MikeAP,

When you get a free minute, can you elaborate more on "The Sudden Death rule was making it impossible to win


The player was destroying 70% of the enemy before actually seizing the objectives, and losing the mission.

_____________________________


(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 35
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/6/2014 10:15:10 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Mike's opinion of our assessment of the equipment, especially US equipment, is at extreme variance with our view.


The M1A1 and AH-64 should shred everything Russian that it comes in contact with.

Other than that, I wouldn't say "extreme". It's no J-CATS, but it's good for a civilian, off the shelf, combat simulator. Especially from a group of folks who aren't making US contractor dollars to develop a detailed product.

I think FCRS is coming along nicely, and I, like many others are looking forward to 2.04 and other enhancements that the team is brewing.

_____________________________


(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 36
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/7/2014 12:12:33 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

MikeAP,

When you get a free minute, can you elaborate more on "The Sudden Death rule was making it impossible to win


The player was destroying 70% of the enemy before actually seizing the objectives, and losing the mission.


I haven't actually lost because of the Sudden Death but the Victory ratings could have been better.
In scenarios Black Horse and Head On you can put tanks on ridges near high valued VPs and wait for the enemy to come and get them. They usually come and take the VPs while getting butchered.
So this way I am reducing their strength below 30% but it also means I can never get back the VPs in time.

At the same time, the enemy force might have traveled through VPs leaving no units behind to guard them. I would think that such VPs shouldnt remain in enemy hands when they regroup. I find myself hiding Recce units in forests just for this goal: snatching those VPs back near the end, hopefully just in time before the enemy decides to call it a day.

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 37
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/7/2014 12:45:39 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		The new SD calculation looks at both time remaining and force strength with respect to the VP locations and ownership. Works a lot better than the original system. Plus you now have the option to play after SD to the time limit if you want. Win-win as they say.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 38
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/7/2014 1:03:47 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		I am excited, Captain! Eagerly awaiting the patch!

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 39
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/7/2014 1:59:35 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyhigh
I haven't actually lost because of the Sudden Death but the Victory ratings could have been better.


For clarification, yes. Player was getting a 'win', but marginal with low ratings. Not fun, or fair.

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(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 40
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/7/2014 3:37:22 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		Playing the Campaign, I have also felt I could achieve a higher victory level at times. Example: in CA1, 2-66 AR is moving from the map edge and is not yet in contact by the time the game is called. Playing past the Sudden Death point will fix that, I think.

_____________________________

Jeff
Sua Sponte

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 41
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/7/2014 10:22:09 PM   
demiller


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/7/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

Playing the Campaign, I have also felt I could achieve a higher victory level at times. Example: in CA1, 2-66 AR is moving from the map edge and is not yet in contact by the time the game is called. Playing past the Sudden Death point will fix that, I think.


I have an AAR up at http://panzerde.blogspot.com/2014/06/planning-for-hunting-bears.html that might just maybe be using a beta version of 2.04 that might just maybe show something about the new SD rules in just the situation and scenario you're asking about...

< Message edited by demiller -- 7/7/2014 11:24:38 PM >

_____________________________

AKA panzerde

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)
Post #: 42
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 12:17:16 AM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiller

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

Playing the Campaign, I have also felt I could achieve a higher victory level at times. Example: in CA1, 2-66 AR is moving from the map edge and is not yet in contact by the time the game is called. Playing past the Sudden Death point will fix that, I think.


I have an AAR up at http://panzerde.blogspot.com/2014/06/planning-for-hunting-bears.html that might just maybe be using a beta version of 2.04 that might just maybe show something about the new SD rules in just the situation and scenario you're asking about...



Your blog and the use of mission analysis, mainly OAKOC, makes me extremely happy.

_____________________________


(in reply to demiller)
Post #: 43
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 3:30:40 AM   
demiller


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/7/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP

Your blog and the use of mission analysis, mainly OAKOC, makes me extremely happy.


Thanks Mike. Congratulations on your company.


_____________________________

AKA panzerde

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 44
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 8:58:25 AM   
mikkey


Posts: 3142
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiller
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf
Playing the Campaign, I have also felt I could achieve a higher victory level at times. Example: in CA1, 2-66 AR is moving from the map edge and is not yet in contact by the time the game is called. Playing past the Sudden Death point will fix that, I think.

I have an AAR up at http://panzerde.blogspot.com/2014/06/planning-for-hunting-bears.html that might just maybe be using a beta version of 2.04 that might just maybe show something about the new SD rules in just the situation and scenario you're asking about...
Excellent AAR Doug! Especially planning phase is awesome. Something like "planning layer" would be great directly in game engine.

(in reply to demiller)
Post #: 45
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 12:41:04 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiller


quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP

Your blog and the use of mission analysis, mainly OAKOC, makes me extremely happy.


Thanks Mike. Congratulations on your company.



I'd also like to point out that it's the first time I've ever seen someone use an Execution Matrix in a freaking video game.

You were a staff officer, no?


_____________________________


(in reply to demiller)
Post #: 46
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 1:42:11 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		I believe Doug is using a number of things learned from the Staff exercises we did at Origins in June.

As for in-game planning, could be on the table for 2.1. Depending on work load for other key features. Just saying.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 47
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 1:48:48 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Very good read!
It seems you didn't look at the weather? - I have had scenarios where I planned for units on ridges and vantage points to shoot up the enemy at 3000+m but were rendered completely useless because rain set in reducing visibility to 2000m.

Nice maps by the way! Where can I find those? - edit: found them in the Mods section :)

< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 7/8/2014 2:54:18 PM >

(in reply to demiller)
Post #: 48
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 2:15:28 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

I believe Doug is using a number of things learned from the Staff exercises we did at Origins in June.

As for in-game planning, could be on the table for 2.1. Depending on work load for other key features. Just saying.


I would say that something as simple as an overlay feature (with the ability for multiple overlays, obviously) would make a WORLD of difference, especially with a game like this.

Edit - I just read about that STAFFEX. That's really great stuff! Welcome to the world of a staff officer.

< Message edited by MikeAP -- 7/8/2014 3:20:46 PM >

_____________________________


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Post #: 49
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 2:32:49 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiller

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

Playing the Campaign, I have also felt I could achieve a higher victory level at times. Example: in CA1, 2-66 AR is moving from the map edge and is not yet in contact by the time the game is called. Playing past the Sudden Death point will fix that, I think.


I have an AAR up at http://panzerde.blogspot.com/2014/06/planning-for-hunting-bears.html that might just maybe be using a beta version of 2.04 that might just maybe show something about the new SD rules in just the situation and scenario you're asking about...


Deja Vu!

(in reply to demiller)
Post #: 50
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 3:02:43 PM   
demiller


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/7/2012
Status: offline 		Cap'n Darwin is correct - the closest I've ever come actual military experience was the Staff Wargaming experience at Origins.

I'd love to see some graphics control measure capabilities in 2.1, as well.

_____________________________

AKA panzerde

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)
Post #: 51
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 3:23:21 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		Doug, I've not gotten to DSTs on paper yet. I do analyze the terrain much like you have explained in you AAR series.

I also have not planned the counter-attacks pre-game. That is because the scenarios end before they could be executed. My counter-attacks have been limited to 1 to 2 company local effort to reclaim VP locations lost to enemy pressure. Even those, I have to keep a careful eye on enemy casualties and launch them early enough to make sure they execute before Sudden Death.

I just finish my second go at the campaign. I will like do two thing on paper: DST and S2 templating. I am pretty sure I can use the TOC Log better than I do to keep track of enemy combat power on various parts of the battlefield.

My experience in staff matters is S3 TOC and Div TAC CP G3 crew (i.e. radio b!!ch). And maintaining the situation maps.

(in reply to demiller)
Post #: 52
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 3:55:16 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf
I am pretty sure I can use the TOC Log better than I do to keep track of enemy combat power on various parts of the battlefield.


We call it the 'Red Check Sheet'

You literally list every vehicle/squad that the enemy has, categorized into high value and high payoff and cross them off as you kill them.

Helps you understand enemy combat power as well as determine enemy commanders options.

Also, to analyze enemy capabilities we use something called a Relative Combat Power Analysis (RCPA) which breaks down enemy capabilities by war fighting function..

Manevuer, intelligence, mission command, fires, sustainment, and protection

Its great stuff

_____________________________


(in reply to IronMikeGolf)
Post #: 53
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 4:57:01 PM   
harry_vdk

 

Posts: 338
Joined: 6/10/2014
From: Drachten
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiller

Cap'n Darwin is correct - the closest I've ever come actual military experience was the Staff Wargaming experience at Origins.

I'd love to see some graphics control measure capabilities in 2.1, as well.


The closest moment for me was back in '83 on the edge of the "CA 2 Red Storm" map as a medic. And 30 year i have been asking myself "wat if it's going wrong". On this way its give me a idea.


(in reply to demiller)
Post #: 54
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 5:00:56 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		MikeAP, I was on my way to devising that for playing this game. I knew the G2/S2 shop folks did something along those lines, but not the specifics. Gonna see what I can find on RCPA.

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 55
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 5:22:35 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

MikeAP, I was on my way to devising that for playing this game. I knew the G2/S2 shop folks did something along those lines, but not the specifics. Gonna see what I can find on RCPA.


Not so much an S2 function, as it is a commanders tool. After all, the S2 isn't fighting the fight. As the guy on the ground this information is paramount.

Don't confuse IPB with MDMP. Two separate processes done at different echelons. IPB is done at the Company level, while MDMP is done at BN and higher.


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Post #: 56
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 8:52:04 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Just so you know Mike, the Rangers got there by following a trail marked out by the Combat Engineers.

Just sayin....

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/8/2014 10:12:07 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 57
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/8/2014 10:30:57 PM   
demiller


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/7/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

I also have not planned the counter-attacks pre-game. That is because the scenarios end before they could be executed. My counter-attacks have been limited to 1 to 2 company local effort to reclaim VP locations lost to enemy pressure. Even those, I have to keep a careful eye on enemy casualties and launch them early enough to make sure they execute before Sudden Death.


The revised SD really makes the counter-attack planning possible now. The way objective control is being calculated now is very transparent and based on number of units in proximity, making it valuable in deciding whether or not to go ahead with extended play. I really like how it's turned out!

quote:


My experience in staff matters is S3 TOC and Div TAC CP G3 crew (i.e. radio b!!ch). And maintaining the situation maps.


When I was in high school I dropped myself on my head and ended up with an eye injury. The Army recruiters that were very interested in me prior to that point became decidedly less interested, and understandably so. A one-eyed TC or gunner or anyone that requires depth perception is not someone the other guys want on their team for some reason. I've confined my military ambitions since to wargames.


_____________________________

AKA panzerde

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Post #: 58
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/9/2014 3:34:03 PM   
pekische

 

Posts: 184
Joined: 8/20/2012
From: Czech republic
Status: offline 		I have to ask...;) what is the state of 2.04 right now? Will it come this week?

(in reply to demiller)
Post #: 59
RE: 2.04 Update for July 1st - 7/9/2014 4:39:44 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		The plan is files to Matrix tomorrow morning and then we are in the installer build and approve cycle. I would guess late next week, but we will let you know when we know.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to pekische)
Post #: 60
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