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How do I create a SAM ambush?

 
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How do I create a SAM ambush? - 7/10/2014 8:37:11 PM   
erichswafford


Posts: 602
Joined: 5/14/2008
Status: offline 		Or would that be a SAMbush? OK, stop groaning for a second and see if you can help me out.

It mentions in the updated manual that you can use Prosecution Areas (PA) to, among other things, create a SAM ambush where your SAMs will wait and fire at close range.

So, to be specific, how would I do this, say, with a ship which has SAMs? What I want is for the ship to proceed on course, but fire it's SAMs at anything that gets within a few miles. How would I go about setting this up using the Mission Editor?

What I tried to do was:
1) Create an AAW mission and assign the ship to it, but with no patrol area specified (since I want the ship to just proceed on course).
2) Created a PA using rotating relative bearings which extends out from the ship a few miles. This worked great, except...

Even when a hostile a/c breaks into my PA, my ship never shoots. The moment I Unassign the ship from the mission, it goes ahead and cuts loose with its SAMs. I've got Engage Opportunity Targets enabled, the radars are lit up, Ignore plotted course... is enabled, and the contacts have been designated as Enemy.

What am I doing wrong?

< Message edited by kondor999 -- 7/10/2014 9:37:11 PM >

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 7/10/2014 8:42:55 PM   
Maromak


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Status: offline 		Sorry can't help you but I am having a similar problem with certain ships in my scenario that won't fire on enemy vessels within the relevant PA.

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 7/10/2014 9:28:14 PM   
Pergite!

 

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From: The temperate climate zone
Status: offline 		I had the same issue but with EMCON and mission activation. The devs responded that it was an issue that they where looking into. You are probably experiencing the same thing.

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 7/10/2014 9:30:57 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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Status: offline 		Please post the scenario. We'll take a look.

Mike

< Message edited by mikmyk -- 7/10/2014 10:30:27 PM >

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 7/10/2014 9:49:55 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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Status: offline 		I've attached an example.

Set up patrol zone where I want the ship to be. Emcon Passive. Added Prosecution zone around that which dictates the bounds of where the ship will shoot at a target. Used the same zone to set up up an Exclusion zone that makes all detected aircraft hostile. Added USS Shooter to this mission.

Added a second AAW patrol which is a standard AAW patrol with EMCON active.

Attachment (1)

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 7/10/2014 9:57:45 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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Status: offline 		This shows the power of the prosecution zone a little better.

In this case I didn't use the same reference points for the exclusion zone and prsecution zone. So the aircraft crosses gets a hostile posture and the ship holds fire until it passes into its prosecution zone.

So if you follow the logic. It is entirely possible to give different SAM sites zones of responsibility that isn't strictly defined by their weapons range. So things like fighter and Sam Zoning is doable.

Attachment (1)

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 7/10/2014 10:05:13 PM   
Tomcat84

 

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Status: offline 		Did you select "investigate contacts outside patrol area"? It is needed.

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 7/11/2014 2:36:39 PM   
erichswafford


Posts: 602
Joined: 5/14/2008
Status: offline 		Two things:

1. Worked like a charm.
2. I ask you, in what other game can you ask an esoteric question and get not only an answer, but an example scenario which illustrates the lesson, from one of the devs, only hours after asking?



Thanks so much Mike. I'm taking a look at these now. No, I didn't think to check "Investigate outside...".

< Message edited by kondor999 -- 7/12/2014 12:49:24 AM >

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 7/12/2014 3:20:47 AM   
Casinn

 

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Status: offline 		I knew you'd see Tomcat in this thread, he likes SAMbushes. (did you finish that scenario Tomcat? I still need to look for it)

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 7/12/2014 8:43:06 AM   
Tomcat84

 

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Status: offline 		You mean this one:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3650856

? I'd say it's 90-95% done. It needs some play testing and feedback so have at it :)

And I hate SAMbushes, that's why I want to inflict them on everyone else too :p

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 11/27/2015 4:44:58 AM   
TMP95

 

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Status: offline 		How do you give orders to a SAM site itself? Is it the same as say an aircraft? I know you can set sensors on or off...Or do you have to create a mission and include your specific SAM site ?

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 11/27/2015 11:57:56 AM   
Tomcat84

 

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Status: offline 		Pretty sure nowadays you don't have to set them on a mission unless you want specific behavior only possible with a mission. But just a site sitting somewhere can be tweaked a lot with emcon/doctrine and WRA settings to generate different types of behavior (shoot close or far, multiple missiles at fighters, only 1 at transports etc)

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 11/27/2015 12:11:16 PM   
Dysta


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Status: offline 		Not to forget, if you are commanding the hidden SAM to change the target/doctrine, you gotta tell them what to do by communication/datalink, which will expose their position by EW units.

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 11/27/2015 2:08:34 PM   
Jecchus

 

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Status: offline 		Maybe it's problem in prosecution areas. I didn't try to make "SAM ambush" yet, but I realised some problem with prosecution area in game. They simply doesn't have any effect for me. I create patrol area (where units are patroling) and bigger prosecution area (where I hoped that units will prosecute enemies if they enter prosecution area) / but it has no effect until enemy unit enters patrol area... I don't know why. "Investigate contacts outside patrol area" is off because I don't want patroling unit on the other side of the map when some unit appear there...

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 11/27/2015 5:14:02 PM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jecchus

Maybe it's problem in prosecution areas. I didn't try to make "SAM ambush" yet, but I realised some problem with prosecution area in game. They simply doesn't have any effect for me. I create patrol area (where units are patroling) and bigger prosecution area (where I hoped that units will prosecute enemies if they enter prosecution area) / but it has no effect until enemy unit enters patrol area... I don't know why. "Investigate contacts outside patrol area" is off because I don't want patroling unit on the other side of the map when some unit appear there...


When you use a prosecution area, you need to turn "Investigate contacts outside patrol area" to ON. Then the units assigned to that mission will only engage within the prosecution zone and not all over the map.

B

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 11/28/2015 5:35:33 PM   
Jecchus

 

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Status: offline 		Ups... :D

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 11/28/2015 6:39:42 PM   
TMP95

 

Posts: 177
Joined: 11/29/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jecchus

Maybe it's problem in prosecution areas. I didn't try to make "SAM ambush" yet, but I realised some problem with prosecution area in game. They simply doesn't have any effect for me. I create patrol area (where units are patroling) and bigger prosecution area (where I hoped that units will prosecute enemies if they enter prosecution area) / but it has no effect until enemy unit enters patrol area... I don't know why. "Investigate contacts outside patrol area" is off because I don't want patroling unit on the other side of the map when some unit appear there...


When you use a prosecution area, you need to turn "Investigate contacts outside patrol area" to ON. Then the units assigned to that mission will only engage within the prosecution zone and not all over the map.

B


So YOU DO turn ON investigate areas outside patrol zone when USING prosecution areas (on a given mission). Huh, I would have thought opposite. Thanks for confirming.

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 11/29/2015 2:48:47 PM   
TMP95

 

Posts: 177
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Status: offline 		Reading this - It would seem you would want "investigate contacts" turned OFF...while setting up prosecution area.

A basic way of looking at the two types of area would be:
◾Patrol Area – the area your units move within.
◾Prosecution Area – the area in which targets are considered a threat and engaged. If someone enters a prosecution area, units will ignore the patrol area to engage it.

If a mission is set up without a Prosecution Area, the assinged units will only engage contacts that enter the Patrol Area. By enabling Prosecution Area you can have the CAP stay in the patrol area fairly close to the carrier but still rush for the unidentified contact entering the larger prosecution area, and also ignore contacts that are too far away to be of any threat.

Enabling ‘Investigate contacts outside the patrol area’ will make the assigned units run off and investigate any and all unidentified contacts on the map.

< Message edited by TMP95 -- 11/29/2015 3:49:01 PM >

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RE: How do I create a SAM ambush? - 11/30/2015 6:45:00 AM   
Sardaukar


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Status: offline 		Devs have said that with Prosecution Area, you need "investigate contacts outside PATROL area" ON. Remember that if you don't turn it on, it will cause engagement only inside PATROL area.

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