RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J)

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RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/24/2014 7:49:25 PM

ny59giants

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quote:

Go dark and hit from the shadows again...I bet you get plenty of opportunity to do so.

Time to re-engage the cloking device and go dark again. Got to keep Cribtop guessing.

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Post #: 181

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/24/2014 7:51:57 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

John,

I don't see too much beyond an historical expansion by Cribtop at this pace. There are pro's and con's by doing what he may end up doing. Time will tell.

One obvious con is the potential for Allied mischief in the DEI.
Everyone knows I play the AI and do things I would never consider trying against a thinking opponent, but with the Japanese pace in Malaya rivaling what the AI does one might consider a trying a radical strategy.
Your opponent, like the AI has not moved quickly to take and establish an early fighter base at Singkawang. This move by most players cuts off the escape route from Singapore.

Without the fighter escort from Singkawang, Netties can be held at bay by the Singapore and Dutch air forces to cover a naval escape route from Singapore to the Sumatra coast and on to Oosthaven.
Against the AI it is entirely possible to evacuate the entire III Indian Corps, all of the air bases and the two Aussie brigades. I transfer them to what I refer to as the Timor Barrier.
Prior to stacking limits I would pile everything in Koepang. Now, with limits I spread them out across Timor and the islands between Timor and New Guinea.

It is possible to concentrate the Brits land and air forces from Malaya, the American air force from the PI and the Dutch army, air force and navy at the Timor barrier. I add a half dozen PBY squads from the Pacific to the Dutch flying boat corps for the Dutch army transfer to Timor.
The Allies have two huge handicaps (among others) at game start. Inferior LCUs and dispersion.

Anyone who has ever played an Eastern Front game knows that the best way to counter qualitative superiority with inferior units is overwhelming quantitative superiority. Quantity is a quality in itself. This cannot be achieved with dispersed units. By concentrating the triad of dispersed units from the Malaya, DEI and PI the Allies overcome the problem.

Again, most players are going to cut off the shipping transfer from Oosthaven to Timor that the AI allows. However, evacuating III Indian Corps to Palembang for a real fortress might be something to try against an opponent who moves slowly to cut off the escape route.

I hate losing the armies in locations where I know I�m going to lose the base anyway. A Sir Robin, only to facilitate concentration, is, in my mind, the best way to concentrate a counterpunch that has a real chance of giving the Japanese a bloody nose instead of the scratches normally applied by dispersed and weak Allied units as they die on the vine.

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Post #: 182

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/25/2014 9:50:02 AM

ny59giants

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When it comes to Malaya its best to prepare for a quick landing at Mersing and an attempt to cut off any troops getting into Singapore. Cribtop landing massively at Kuantan and has now marched inland. Singapore now has 900 AV behind level 3 forts. I've used what few xAKLs I've left behind to move parts of three small BFs from Singapore to Palembang along with Dutch transport planes. The latest DBB OOB changes have left The Dutch without Aviation Support in northern Sumatra and very little at Palembang. Its hard to keep your fighters at Singapore as the British Buffaloes are only good enough to take on Nates.

I got them up to India now training up their pilots.

Fortress Timor is good vs the AI, but is difficult vs a human. Now that Ambon is his and being built up, his Zeros can reach out 14 hexes with Nell/Betty.

American PBYs are spread out to provide Naval Search. I have one at Darwin and Horn island. I have three still at Pearl and two will move west once they fill out.

My "Death Star" in SRA is to slow him down and force him to be very methodical. He will need both LBA (tactical placement of Air HQs) and KB3 & 4 to advance here now. The longer it takes the closer I get to April 1st and his loss of landing bonus.

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Post #: 183

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/25/2014 11:11:24 AM

Lowpe

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Good strategy. Japan without the amphib bonus is a horse of a different color indeed.

What did you do with the torpedo bombers at Singers?

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Post #: 184

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/25/2014 5:14:13 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

When it comes to Malaya its best to prepare for a quick landing at Mersing and an attempt to cut off any troops getting into Singapore. Cribtop landing massively at Kuantan and has now marched inland. Singapore now has 900 AV behind level 3 forts. I've used what few xAKLs I've left behind to move parts of three small BFs from Singapore to Palembang along with Dutch transport planes. The latest DBB OOB changes have left The Dutch without Aviation Support in northern Sumatra and very little at Palembang. Its hard to keep your fighters at Singapore as the British Buffaloes are only good enough to take on Nates. I got them up to India now training up their pilots.

Fortress Timor is good vs the AI, but is difficult vs a human. Now that Ambon is his and being built up, his Zeros can reach out 14 hexes with Nell/Betty.

American PBYs are spread out to provide Naval Search. I have one at Darwin and Horn island. I have three still at Pearl and two will move west once they fill out.

My "Death Star" in SRA is to slow him down and force him to be very methodical. He will need both LBA (tactical placement of Air HQs) and KB3 & 4 to advance here now. The longer it takes the closer I get to April 1st and his loss of landing bonus.

Makes me sorry I wasted so much time typing that post for you to discount it with a couple of flip responses.
I believe I made the point that the sea route to Timor would likely be compromised.
Nor do I leave the Pacific uncovered with NAV search from PBYs. Every Allied held base in the Pacific has at least a half if not a full squad of PBYs. There is still enough extra to send 4 to the DEI to supplement the 2 from the PI.

The main point I was trying, unsuccessfully, to make was that with the Japanese player moving so slowly to cut off the escape route from Singapore, the door is open for much mischief.

Might that 900 AV in Singapore be of more value in Palembang? Might it be of more value in Burma? Just some "outside the box" ideas to consider instead of always sticking to the vanilla approach.

That's one huge benefit of playing the AI...experimenting.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 9/25/2014 6:17:21 PM >

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RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/25/2014 7:16:59 PM

ny59giants

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It wasn't my intent Hans to offer flipant remarks. My last two PBEMs were against Mr Kane and BigBadWolf who were more aggressive that Cribtop in Malaya and SRA. Both went for Mersing and mr Kane landed in Java before end of December with over two divisions. Thus, I started to get out with the most shipping I could. Now, with hindsight, I wish I had kept more back.

PBYs - right now I have them training, filling out, or working. Op losses keep mounting for the groups at Canton and Ellice Islands as they work at extended ranges keeeping an eye on KB1 & 2. With the extra warships both sides get in BTS, I wanted to watch more than normal. If you look at BTS, the new Dutch OOB is much different. They have adequate Aviation Support on Java, but in the eastern SRA almost none. I did think about what to do with the 2 American BFs with TF at Darwin and decided to send them to Townsville.

Timor - Cribtop is an experienced player, so I was trying to figure out where to defend. Java is the place their at and I could have used PBYs (American and Dutch) to Makassar and then Timor, but with me not knowing what Cribtop was up to, they are out on Naval Search. I didn't know how he was going to employ all 6 heavy CVs and the 6 CVLs (and hybrids), so I did do anything major here.

I want other players feedback and respect yours.

I did play some of Andy Mac's latest mod and saw CVs off Seattle and Canada, so I know his AI can throw you off your game.

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Post #: 186

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/25/2014 8:23:46 PM

HansBolter

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On the point of air support.

Have you noticed there are also several American base units in the PI that can be bought out and airlifted out in BTS?

Another way to get some early air support build up going at Darwin.

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RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/26/2014 2:31:58 AM

topeverest

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Those extra CV platforms are playing out as decisive

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RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/26/2014 10:04:51 PM

Lowpe

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Isn't there a stronger French fleet presence in this mod starting at Noumea? What are you doing with them? Or am I confused?

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RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/27/2014 2:30:44 AM

DOCUP

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Lowpe, the French fleet was scaled back at the beginning of the game. A CL and 3 DDs are at Tahiti with another few warships off map. I think more French ships come in over the span of 42.

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Post #: 190

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 1:15:24 AM

John 3rd

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A significant French reinforcement occurs in 42 as the French Fleet begin to arrive with additional ships. Perhaps more importantly the French start with some very capable support ships and some decent SS.

The additional CAV and CLVs are proving to be far more valuable then I really thought they might be. I cannot WAIT to convert my pair to CVs when allowed.

The real problem that Cribtop has allowed to occur is more soooooooooooooo slowly as to let Michael concentrate a massed and highly capable force in the DEI. He is seriusly screwed at this point. Add the much lower amounts of Japanese supply, resources, fuel, and oil in the Home Islands and there is real time pressure for CT to get a move on. Michael has really thrown the gauntlet here and it must be picked up ASAP.

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 9/28/2014 2:16:05 AM >

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Post #: 191

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 1:26:21 AM

topeverest

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What does the scenario start with? Stock 1 only has 1100 AV on all Malaya. It seems incomprehensible that the empire let you get that much in Zingers. Is that right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

When it comes to Malaya its best to prepare for a quick landing at Mersing and an attempt to cut off any troops getting into Singapore. Cribtop landing massively at Kuantan and has now marched inland. Singapore now has 900 AV behind level 3 forts.

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RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 1:36:42 AM

Lowpe

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Thanks guys for the info on the French. LeTriomphant is one of my absolute favorite ships, but I usually lose her to an Iboat early on it seems whenever I played the Allies, so I have a warm spot in my heart for their ships. Maybe I just like their names.

I will have to get auto victory in my game so I can play this mod.

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Post #: 193

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 2:24:55 AM

ny59giants

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Date: 42 Jan 3rd -
Pending CV clash off Balikpapan doesn't happen

Key: TT = Torpedo; bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; f = fuel hits; AV = Assault Value; DC = Depth Charged; (*) = destroyed aircraft; If odds are italics, they are the Allies; BG = Bomber Group of 48 planes (4 x 12 bomber squadrons); FG fighter group = 25 fighter planes if American

Landings:

CVs:
KB1 & 2 - Both at 143, 132 (8 NE of Baker)
KB3 - 71, 9 (7 East Balikpapan)
KB4 - MIA
CVEs - MIA

Allied Mini-Death Star - 1 SE of Balikpapan

Subs:
I-21, I-23, & I-170 find the minefield at Christmas (two sinking sounds heard).

I-153 misses American warships leaving Soerabaja.
S-35 is damaged 8 NE of Baker as KB1 & 2 run over her.

India/Burma:
Rangoon -
Pegu -

China:
Trail to Ankang -

Malaya: -
Singapore - 12 Lily come in at night.
Kuala Lumpur -

Philippines:
Manila -
Clark -

Borneo:
Balikpapan - Allied DS is 1 SE of base (only moved two hexes due to refueling efforts).

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Balikpapan at 65,98

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 32
D3A1 Val x 42

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 8
B-339D x 3
P-40E Warhawk x 4
F2A-3 Buffalo x 47
F4F-3A Wildcat x 23
F4F-3 Wildcat x 35
F2A-3 Buffalo x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
D3A1 Val: 26 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed

CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 12 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
20 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 11 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
19 planes vectored on to bombers
No.803 Sqn FAA with Fulmar II (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 4 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-103 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 9 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
14 planes vectored on to bombers
CLV F-1 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 5 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
CLV F-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 6 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
Melbourne-F with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 4 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
Wellington-F with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 4 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-211 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 8 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
1-VI.G.V with B-339D (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
24th PG/3rd PS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers

KB3 ended being 7 hexes away. Thus, no naval strikes from Allies, but with fighters set at CAP 50% almost all ended up airborne for the fight.

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Balikpapan at 65,98

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 19

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 6
B-339D x 3
P-40E Warhawk x 4
F2A-3 Buffalo x 40
F4F-3A Wildcat x 19
F4F-3 Wildcat x 23
F2A-3 Buffalo x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 10 destroyed

No Allied losses

More loss of highly trained pilots.

Sumatra:
Medan -

SRA:
Kendari -

New Guinea/Solomons:

Central Pacific:
Canton - transports arrived & unspotted (decided to leave them here and if needed be sunk by KB1 &2 to try to hold onto base).
Christmas Island - transports unloading

South Pacific:

North Pacific:
Umnak -

Australia:

Engineers:

Intel:

Notes/Plans:
Hindsight - Maybe I should have ordered the DS out without fully refueling every warship. If so it would have been an interesting battle as I would have gotten closer (6 hexes or less).

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 9/28/2014 3:26:52 AM >

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Post #: 194

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 2:48:31 AM

ny59giants

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Date: 42 Jan 4th -
KB3 runs away!!

Key: TT = Torpedo; bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; f = fuel hits; AV = Assault Value; DC = Depth Charged; (*) = destroyed aircraft; If odds are italics, they are the Allies; BG = Bomber Group of 48 planes (4 x 12 bomber squadrons); FG fighter group = 25 fighter planes if American

Landings:
Baker Island with elements of 1st Maizuru Assault Div (bases falls 54:1)

CVs:
KB1 & 2 - MIA (suspected headed west after DS was attacked off Balikpapan)
KB3 - 89,96 (2 NW Babeldoab) - FULL SPEED run!!

KB4 - MIA
CVEs - MIA

Allied Mini-Death Star - Heads SW from Balikpapan. Will head to Soerabaja to allow some minor repair work done on ships.

Subs:
I-162 sinks last small xAKL off Palembang that was doing the Singapore to Palembang run with the cargo parts of BFs.

India/Burma:
Rangoon -
Pegu -

China:
Trail to Ankang -

Malaya: -

Singapore - 912 AV, 53k supply, forts 3 (23%), engineers 223
Kuala Lumpur -

Philippines:
Manila -
Clark - 7 Nates with 10 Sally & 19 Lily

Borneo:

Sumatra:
Medan -

SRA:
Kendari -

New Guinea/Solomons:

Central Pacific:
Canton - transports unloading & unspotted
Christmas Island - transports mostly unloaded. See screen shot

South Pacific:

North Pacific:
Umnak -

Australia:

Engineers:
Bangalore - F3; Karachi- P6; Chengtu - AF2; Bremerton P7; Astroria - P3; Cochin AF2;

Intel:

Notes/Plans:
Looks like Cribtop was worried that I would try a Full Speed run with DS (Death Star) to try to catch KB3. Instead I backed off.

Christmas - Screen shot shows troops unloaded with about 4k left in supplies to unload. Forts are at 2 (51%) with 142 engineers now present. Another TF will come here later with AA, CD, and more construction engineers.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 9/28/2014 3:54:04 AM >

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RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 3:00:57 AM

ny59giants

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quote:

Thanks guys for the info on the French. LeTriomphant is one of my absolute favorite ships, but I usually lose her to an Iboat early on it seems whenever I played the Allies, so I have a warm spot in my heart for their ships. Maybe I just like their names.

I will have to get auto victory in my game so I can play this mod.

Screen shot shows what the French fleet looks like. I haven't done anything with it yet. Supplies and fuel are headed that way.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 196

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 3:05:25 AM

ny59giants

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Then comes those two 'nice' BCs and escorts at end of April '42.

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Post #: 197

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 3:11:17 AM

ny59giants

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Dunkerque Class BC - Add these two to my two American BCs with 8 Fletchers and...

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< Message edited by ny59giants -- 9/28/2014 4:11:57 AM >

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Post #: 198

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 3:15:18 AM

ny59giants

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Constitution Class BC (just in case you're not familiar with her)

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< Message edited by ny59giants -- 9/28/2014 4:17:19 AM >

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Post #: 199

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 3:36:55 AM

John 3rd

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Would that be THESE BCs???!!!!

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Post #: 200

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 6:21:34 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Constitution Class BC (just in case you're not familiar with her)

WTH?? The French BC 13" guns have a range 10,000 greater than the 16"/50s of the Constitutions, and greater penetrating power too!

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Post #: 201

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 11:54:01 AM

ny59giants

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Any questions about the BB/BCs should go to JuanG as he did them, I think. Right John 3rd??

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RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 12:42:53 PM

John 3rd

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Ain't been touched by me...

Either they are stock, worked over by Skyland, or Juans.

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Post #: 203

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 12:52:04 PM

ny59giants

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Date: 42 Jan 5th -
I now hate ground combat in China.

The "Panzer Corp" is wearing down my troops 3 SE of Ankang quickly.

Key: TT = Torpedo; bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; f = fuel hits; AV = Assault Value; DC = Depth Charged; (*) = destroyed aircraft; If odds are italics, they are the Allies; BG = Bomber Group of 48 planes (4 x 12 bomber squadrons); FG fighter group = 25 fighter planes if American

Landings:

CVs:
KB1 & 2 - MIA - PBYs at extended range (20 hexes) from Canton Island and Johnson Island cannot find them!!
KB3 - Babeldoab
KB4 - MIA
CVEs - MIA

Allied Mini-Death Star - Arrived at Soerabaja. The few ships with System Damage above 4 are disbanded in port.

Subs:

India/Burma:
Rangoon -
Pegu - 1 NE of bases sees the Burma battalion wiped out by 55th Cav Rgt & 112 Inf Rgt

China: I'm joining the chorus.... I hate China!!
Trail to Ankang - 3 hexes to SE sees the bombers softening up the troops - 31 Nates with 6 Ann & 3 Sonia.

quote:

Ground combat at 83,45 (near Nanyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 43517 troops, 466 guns, 572 vehicles, Assault Value = 1415

Defending force 35965 troops, 229 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 759

Japanese adjusted assault: 760

Allied adjusted defense: 1126

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
887 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 35 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 58 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 175 (33 destroyed, 142 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2548 casualties reported
Squads: 17 destroyed, 305 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 23 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 31 (7 destroyed, 24 disabled)

Assaulting units:
9th Armored Car Co
5th Tank Regiment
6th Division
10th Tank Regiment
3rd Division
23rd Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
5th Armored Car Co
13th Tank Regiment
13th Division
3rd Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
11th Army
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion

Defending units:
2nd Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
67th Chinese Corps
30th Chinese Corps
8th New Chinese Corps

I cannot get out of this hex fast enough nor do I have enough troops behind it to slow down his march to Ankang. The slow trickle that will be coming from the defense in front of Sian may become a flood in the days ahead towards Ankang. If I made one mistake in my initial retreat from the clear terrain, it was not sending enough troops to the trail leading up to Ankang. Cribtop was able to exploit it by being able to shift troops down here vs trying to smash his way to Sian after capture of Nanyang.

Malaya: -
Singapore - 40 Oscars with 18 Sally
Kuala Lumpur - Crushed here!!

quote:

Ground combat at Kuala Lumpur (49,79)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 55918 troops, 507 guns, 253 vehicles, Assault Value = 1746

Defending force 1888 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 19

Japanese adjusted assault: 1393

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 1393 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Kuala Lumpur !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
143 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
2699 casualties reported
Squads: 62 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 166 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 3

Assaulting units:
55th Infantry Regiment
4th Division
41st Infantry Regiment
5th Division
15th Ind Engineer Regiment
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
22nd Recon Regiment
114th Infantry Regiment
21st Division
4th Ind Engineer Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
18th Mountain Gun Regiment
54th Const Co
25th Army
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
53rd Const Co
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
55th Const Co

Defending units:
8th Indian Brigade
22nd Indian Brigade
223 Group RAF /1

No combat troops are now left outside of Singapore. Just a small BF.

Philippines:
Manila - Cribtop has neglected to bomb this base much to date. However, today sees 24 Oscars sweep before 34 Nates, 19 Lily, and 7 Sally hit AF.
Clark -

Borneo:
Beaufort - Elements of 81st Nav Gds take base from RN BF (eliminated)

Sumatra:
Medan -

SRA:
Kendari -

New Guinea/Solomons:

Central Pacific:
Canton - transports unloading & unspotted
Christmas Island - transports empty and leaving now.

South Pacific:

North Pacific:
Umnak -

Australia:

Engineers:

Intel:

Notes/Plans:
Malaya and Luzon - Last turn saw ONLY 25 Sally and 19 Lily used. Where are all his bombers?? Cribtop has used very limited number of bombers on a daily basis. Why??

China - I have troops marching through Sian to curve around and then down to Ankang. I hope I can get there fast enough. Screen shot shows lots of troops with arrows showing the steady move now to get over towards Ankang.

Attachment (1)

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(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 204

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 1:42:01 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Yeah, China sucks.

Watch out for those forced retreats. One retreat into the wrong hex and the overstack will doom not only the already shattered stack but also the next line of defense as all supply are almost instantly burned.

That is how Tom managed to smash through North of Sian and reached the Chungking plains in just a couple of days. 3 attacks caused 3 retreats which all retreated into the same hex. Almost instantly lost all the supply the troops had. It will be gone long, long before you can move out.

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 205

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 1:50:21 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

In BTS, I tweaked supplies by increasing daily organic at Chungking from 400 to 450 and decreasing the damaged industry at Chungking and Changsha. Right now, I have about 28k at Chungking, so supplies are not an issue. However, I have not had to deal with extended periods of combat yet. I hope my changes for this mod help. Cannot do anything about me not sending enough troops to this potential threat axis.

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(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 206

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 1:52:55 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Yeah, only thing to do is keep feeding troops into the grinder. Sadly we all know where it will end...

Also keep in mind that getting those 28k to flow back to the troops might not be so easy. I had over 10k at Chungking but was still unable to get troops less then 10 hexes from there into supply once they were drained by the overstack.

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 207

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 3:02:05 PM

JuanG

Posts: 906
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

WTH?? The French BC 13" guns have a range 10,000 greater than the 16"/50s of the Constitutions, and greater penetrating power too!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Any questions about the BB/BCs should go to JuanG as he did them, I think. Right John 3rd??

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Ain't been touched by me...

Either they are stock, worked over by Skyland, or Juans.

I have no idea where the numbers for that 330mm on the Dunkerque came from. The 16in/50 numbers were produced by JWE (because RA/BTS use the DBB naval guns numbers, which he is the authority of) and are largely in line with my own estimates.

At first glace it looks like the range on the 330mm is correct - it had a maximum range of ~45,600 yards at 35 degrees elevation when firing its 1235lb AP rounds, and a muzzle velocity of 2850fps (which is damn fast).

In comparison, the 16in/50 Mk3 which only ever saw use as a coastal mounting had a range of ~45,100 yards, at an angle of 46 degrees and a muzzle velocity of 2650fps when firing 2240lb AP (same shell as on Colorado class).

However, I believe JWE ran the numbers for them with a maximum elevation of 30 degrees, like the turrets on the Colorado class, which would put their maximum range in the 36-37,000 yard mark. For reference, Colorado firing the same shell at 2520fps and 30 degrees has a range of 35,000 yards. I would probably have picked 36-37,000 yards for the 16in/50s, but the difference is fairly minor.

As for penetration - the 2240lb Mk5 APC at 2650fps (Constitution class) penetrates 22.3in of Class A at 15,000 yards, and 19in at 20,000 yards. In comparison the same shell at 2520fps (Colorado) has a penetration of 20.7in and 17.5in respectively. I think the 16in/50 Mk3 is a little underrated currently at only 2 more penetration than the 16in/45 on the Colorado, something in the 760-770 range would be more appropriate.

The French shell is a newer design than the 2240lb Mk5 (the post-44 US shells do not seem to be modelled apart from on the 16in/50 Mk7), and due its high velocity its performance is impressive despite its size, however it does seem to be overperforming here. At 2850fps its penetration is 19.8in and 16.8in of Class A respectively. This would put it between the 16in/45 on the Colorado and the 14in/50 on the Tennessee/NM, with a penetration value around 700. For reference the French 15in on the Richilieu is only 754 in game.

One last thing I notice is the Ammo count on the Dunkerque - these carried 110 rounds per gun, so an ammo number of 16 is a little high. Consider that the Alaska class CB carried 166 rounds per gun of 12in (so a fairly close comparison), and also gets a 16. I would give Dunkerque a 14 at most, probably a 13, given that the 14in gunned US Standard BBs get a 12 at 100 rounds per gun.

So, potential fix list;
1) Increase range on 16in/50 to 37,000 yards.
2) Decrease penetration on 330mm to 700-710 (maybe JWE could run the numbers for the DBB model?)
3) Decrease ammo on Dunkerque main battery to 13.

< Message edited by JuanG -- 9/28/2014 4:32:00 PM >

_____________________________

Coral Sea HDM
AltWNT Scenarios

(in reply to John 3rd)

Post #: 208

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/28/2014 11:53:10 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

Thanks for the explanation JuanG - I hadn't thought of the limited max elevation on the older ships guns as the limiting factor on range.

From Nathan Okun's armour penetration articles in Warship International, I seem to recall that too high a velocity on an AP shell hitting face hardened armour can shatter the shell, while a heavy, slower shell will use it's mass and spin to bore through the face hardened plate and push through the tough steel behind it.
All of which makes me wonder whether Dunkerkque's shell could achieve the penetration of battleship armour. It was designed to counter the German pocket battleships, which it could easily do.

BTW, the French 15" guns on the Richelieu class were the most powerful ever built of that caliber. Too bad they never saw much use IRL, but WITP-AE allows for many alternate histories. I'll be watching for their performance.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 9/29/2014 1:30:58 AM >

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to JuanG)

Post #: 209

RE: NFC East Slapdown: NY59Giants (A) vs Cribtop (J) - ... - 9/29/2014 12:03:32 AM

topeverest

Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline

Have to agree that too easy for JFB in china. 28K supply will fly by too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yeah, only thing to do is keep feeding troops into the grinder. Sadly we all know where it will end...

Also keep in mind that getting those 28k to flow back to the troops might not be so easy. I had over 10k at Chungking but was still unable to get troops less then 10 hexes from there into supply once they were drained by the overstack.

_____________________________

Andy M

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 210

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