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Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 1:43:34 AM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		For those of you that have dealt with ATGMs, how long does it take to reload one after they fire?

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 4:21:12 AM   
MikeAP

 

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Status: offline 		Depends on the ATGM type and platform.

In real life my guys can do it fairly quickly, but we're kind of different, given our unique platform

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 6:10:54 AM   
IronMikeGolf

 

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Status: offline 		MR, the training standard for loading the TOW on a Bradley is 4 minutes. That minimum acceptable performance. I'd use 2.5 minutes for a well trained crew.

Keep in mind, while reloading missiles, the Bradley can not fire and it should likely get a PF decrement since the cargo hatch is open.

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 12:55:56 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		Would the same hold true for Soviet ATGM reloads. For say the BMP-2? I would 'think', always a dangerous situation, that the Soviet reload times would be comparable to NATO reload times.

This would look like the 'unit' would always have ATGM coverage in the game. That as they would fire a few ATGM's they would have those reloaded within no less than 4 minutes.

Sorry for all the uninformed questions. ATGM's are the one thing I never messed with when I was on active duty. What is a 'PF decrement'?
Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 8/2/2014 1:57:43 PM >

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 1:07:25 PM   
MikeAP

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Would the same hold true for Soviet ATGM reloads. For say the BMP-2? I would 'think', always a dangerous situation, that the Soviet reload times would be comparable to NATO reload times.



Actually no. There is no dedicated loader for the BMP-2, and given the missile location (on top of vehicle) it would cause more exposure to whomever has to reload.

M2 and M1134 take that into consideration with their independent loader hatches. I could be wrong, but I've never seen one on a BMP2. Not sure about the BRDM-2 AT

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 1:09:12 PM   
CapnDarwin


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Status: offline 		Protection factor, ie armor drop for having the ammo storage open.

My question would be is when do you reload? Under fire is not ideal I would think.

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 1:10:54 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		Again, 'I think', the M901 lowered the mast back into the vehicle to reload it. That too may not be correct.

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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 8/2/2014 2:11:11 PM >

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 1:17:15 PM   
MikeAP

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Again, 'I think', the M901 lowered the mast back into the vehicle to reload it. That too may not be correct.

Good Hunting.

MR


It did.

The M2/M3/M1134 also swivel so the loader can access the ATGM without exposing himself.

Edit- there is still SOME exposure, but not more than the upper body.

< Message edited by MikeAP -- 8/2/2014 2:20:39 PM >

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 1:18:48 PM   
DoubleDeuce


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Status: offline 		Not into the vehicle, is was lowered to the stowed position almost flat on the PC and the TOW's were reloaded through the back hatch (same hatch setup as the M113, iirc).

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 3:48:43 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Protection factor, ie armor drop for having the ammo storage open.

My question would be is when do you reload? Under fire is not ideal I would think.



Here's the drill on a Brad.

1. "Driver, seek defilade"
2. Once you're parked somewhere "safe" (e.g. bottom of fighting position, behind a hill, in a gully, etc), turret is rotated to about 10 o'clock and launcher is raised and put to max elevation
3. Guy in back opens the cargo hatch and reloads.

If you have no dismounted element, it will take longer, maybe a minute, as a turret crew member will have to leave the turret and do the reload, then return.

During the reload, the vehicle is significantly more vulnerable to indirect fire. You just don't do the reload if you are subject to direct fire. You always hide to do a TOW reload on a Brad.

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 5:04:33 PM   
Tazak

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Would the same hold true for Soviet ATGM reloads. For say the BMP-2? I would 'think', always a dangerous situation, that the Soviet reload times would be comparable to NATO reload times.



Actually no. There is no dedicated loader for the BMP-2, and given the missile location (on top of vehicle) it would cause more exposure to whomever has to reload.

M2 and M1134 take that into consideration with their independent loader hatches. I could be wrong, but I've never seen one on a BMP2. Not sure about the BRDM-2 AT


I'm pretty sure the launchers retract on the BRDM2 AT3/AT5, would expect them to be able to reload internally as well

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 5:41:19 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

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Status: offline 		According to this site, the BRDM with AT3 style launcher can reload internally. The AT5 style launcher requires the gunner stand up in a hatch to reload.

The photos of the AT5 launcher don't look like something that is retractable, but that's speculation.

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/2/2014 7:42:57 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		I was hoping for someone with some experience with Soviet equipment to chime here on this. We have some interest from that part of the world.

Good Hunting.

MR

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/3/2014 12:16:40 AM   
IronMikeGolf

 

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Status: offline 		Also, on the Bradley, if you're looking for reload times for the 25mm, I'd call it 13 minutes. That's the sum for both ready boxes and again presumes a dismount element to handle the ammo.

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/3/2014 11:13:10 AM   
MikeAP

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

I was hoping for someone with some experience with Soviet equipment to chime here on this. We have some interest from that part of the world.

Good Hunting.

MR



Good luck with that

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/3/2014 11:37:50 AM   
Alex1812


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf
The photos of the AT5 launcher don't look like something that is retractable


it's retractable, looks here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELDie1b6C90

BMP-2 ATGM also can reload inside of vehicle. The launcher is set in vertical position and new tube with missile is mounted using hatch in the turret

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/3/2014 12:24:06 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

I was hoping for someone with some experience with Soviet equipment to chime here on this. We have some interest from that part of the world.

Good Hunting.

MR



Good luck with that


Here you go. We have several people on this forum that are in the Soviet Union. No reason to assume they aren't as interested/knowledgeable as their counterparts around the world.


This shows the new BTR-90 with an ATGM mount which looks identical to that on the BMP-2. With a deck opening hatch it looks to be re loadable as well. The BMP-2 has deck hatches as well. I would think the only one that would require a crewman to actually get out of the vehicle to reload it would be the BMP-1 with the missile on a launch rail over the gun tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69qlCIYBe9c

Good Hunting.

MR



< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 8/3/2014 1:26:12 PM >

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/3/2014 1:00:31 PM   
Alex1812


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

I would think the only one that would require a crewman to actually get out of the vehicle to reload it would be the BMP-1 with the missile on a launch rail over the gun tube.


BMP-1 has the special hatch to reload the missile. The reload time is 50 seconds or less

http://youtu.be/uDKMos5VrLE?t=6m20s




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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/3/2014 1:07:33 PM   
CapnDarwin


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Status: offline 		I'm going to say there is no way that ATGM fits through the hatch and how many can you carry inside.

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/3/2014 2:58:55 PM   
Ajack58

 

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Status: offline 		I'm going to say I didn't think so either, but seeing is believing. Great find on Youtube. How many could they carry inside?

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/3/2014 3:23:19 PM   
mb4329

 

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Status: offline 		I am curious after sliding the round out how does the crew get the fins extended? The one getting pushed out of the reloading hatch, in the video, has the fins folded down (or not attached??). Anyone know how they manage that trick?

Merrick

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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/4/2014 3:54:30 PM   
Tazak

 

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Status: offline 		Looking at this picture of a AT3 (for sale at a snip of 250 euros!!), the fins are clearly folded. I'd think that the crew member who sticks out his hand to put the missile onto the rail would most likely have to manually expand the fins or there could be some wire that is pulled allowing the fins to spring load into position but that is just guesswork on my part




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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/4/2014 4:32:05 PM   
Richie61


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quote:

BMP-1
(The original design carries a single anti tank missile on the barrel, the 9M14 Malyutka (NATO designation AT-3 Sagger). This was capable of a range of 3000m and defeating any tank at the time of introduction.

quote:

Reloading is slow, through a special rectangular hatch in the front of the turret. Four reloads are carried.

The gunner connects the wires to the missile and leans out to place the missile on the rack. The BMP gunner is unique because he is armed with a stick, to fold the fins of the missile out before firing.


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RE: Reloading ATGMs - 8/4/2014 5:00:04 PM   
Tazak

 

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quote:

The BMP gunner is unique because he is armed with a stick, to fold the fins of the missile out before firing.


A stick....well that's.....does the BMP1 have a mesh around the inside of the turret or those "dark gaps no one knows where they go". You can almost hear the radio traffic when the gunner is asked why he's not firing missiles at the rapidly approaching NATO tanks

But sir I can't, I broke my stick

< Message edited by Tazak -- 8/4/2014 6:01:31 PM >

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