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Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us into ... - 9/26/2014 2:30:26 PM

MrsWargamer

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Today I am trying to maximize on an urge I had yesterday, that being to play some more of my games.

With very limited successes.

Because I keep coming up against a hassle of the games aged, and the environment they are now in has moved on.

I have something of a hoard of titles, and some, well hell they were great in their time, but today, well other games that are newer, are often just as good at the setting, but having been made this decade, they are often so much better than anything in previous decades as far as actually running without freaking me out (although that comment really only goes back to the last two decades if you ask me as prior to that, well I'm not in a hurry to pretend I'm about to play something on a pre 1990 doodad I don't own).

In some cases, I bought the game, (because I bought the hype) and now, well I never got around to the game, and time marches on, and someone has since made a game for that setting, and it actually runs properly, without needing geek skill to figure out why it isn't running on a perfectly fine computer.

I don't really want to make a big fuss to run something, that needs me to master all sorts of finagaling silly tricks and settings. And there are limits to how much whining I am willing to do with my computer buddy :)

Campaign series for example. The graphics are really not THAT great. It was great in it's time. But there are no shortage of tactical platoon level amusements out there.
Close Combat series. Well I am not sure what is the problem, but the graphics in it are not at all cooperating today at least. And it's just not going to be unseating Battle Academy any way.
My Battles in series titles. Just not reeeeally wanting to play those currently. I have never mastered the interface. I'd rather be pushing some cardboard, no interface to master.
Panzer General/Allied General/Whatever General, why play them if I have Panzer Corps?

Some games have nearly no foot print on a computer that manages TB of data space. But why clutter up the directory tree with clutter all the same.

Of course I have some newer games, but, I don't think my head was on straight when I bought them :) I'm as bad with doodads in my kitchen though. My Ninja system is awesome, but I have yet to do more than make a smoothie with it. 300 bucks to make smoothies, is sort of dumb.
That's how I see some of my wargame purchases. You can rave all you want about some titles, but, really, they are over hyped over blown, good ways to spend money, and not much else if you never play them.

I bought several titles convinced they were good ideas. And now they just get older and older, and just a matter of time before they fall behind and eventually no longer seem to relate to my computer's OS.

I'm likely going to be uninstalling a lot of titles, and just ignoring they exist I suppose.

I'd rather turn on the computer and see 5 games I actually MIGHT play, instead of seeing more than 50 games, and I never get around to them and in some cases I fail to notice that they don't even run now.

How many of YOUR games, are really more clutter than value? No seriously, how many times have you played it this month? This year? Can you even recall the last time you played it?

I think if someone walked up and said, I'll give you 100 bucks for your stash of games complete with serials, I'd likely proclaim, SOLD!. And I know I likely would be giving away 1000 bucks in purchases. But the money is already gone eh, and the time to play them too I suppose.

I'm just glad they don't take up shelf space.

Post #: 1

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 2:58:20 PM

Lecivius

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I would pay a lot to be able to play some of the old stuff again. Great Naval Battles comes to mind right away.

Sadly, not gonna happen

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 2

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 3:02:52 PM

danlongman

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From: Over the hills and far away
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I have a library of over 1000 games of various types and ages.
Many of them I will never even really look at.
But they are mine, Mine, MINE!!!!! MINE!!!
I HAVE MANY GAMES!!!!
I AM RICH BEYOND COMPARE!!!
I frequently cannot decide what to play.
These are a rich man's problems.

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 3:26:48 PM

MrsWargamer

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Too many choices is also a nuisance I find troublesome :)

Some games I do genuinely miss.

If I could go back in time, I'd rescue my second computer the one I played Steel Panthers on originally. I wouldn't mind if about the only thing it could do today was play basically that and maybe a couple of other games. It would be nice to fire it up and run Steel Panthers mega campaigns and not need to fret over a darned thing. Everything would run correctly.

It's still a good game, but, I've gotten tired of pretending it's worth the hassle installing it and fiddling with this and fiddling with that. The arty screen might be the last straw. I'm not as fond of the SP Camo releases, but at least they run properly.

My current list of games is a great deal shorter now.
Currently installed, waiting for me to play them.

A World at War World Divided (need to get more practice with interface)
Battle Academy
Conflict of Heroes (newer title, not cracked it fully open yet)
Legends of War Patton (light weight title, but easy to learn interface at least)
Panzer Corps
TOAW III (I keep telling myself I don't need other operational titles if I have this one)
Unity of Command (not really cracked this one open yet)
WinSP (nice for a modern fix too)
World in Flames (considering what I paid for it, I suppose I am mainly just refusing to admit I might have been impulsively dense)

My list of what just got deleted was a loooong list indeed.

(in reply to danlongman)

Post #: 4

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 5:11:18 PM

vonRocko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: danlongman

I have a library of over 1000 games of various types and ages.
Many of them I will never even really look at.
But they are mine, Mine, MINE!!!!! MINE!!!
I HAVE MANY GAMES!!!!
I AM RICH BEYOND COMPARE!!!
I frequently cannot decide what to play.
These are a rich man's problems.

(in reply to danlongman)

Post #: 5

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 5:17:47 PM

gradenko2k

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GOG, and really Matrix too to a lesser extent, makes a lot of business out of dragging old games into the future.

I do have a lot of games, and some of them I've never even played, but once in a while I read an article, or see a show, or just get struck by a lightning bolt of inspiration and I really dig deep into a game and play the hell out of it for anywhere between a week and a month. There was one month this year where I really sat my ass down and played TOAW until I really got it, culminating in a decisive victory over Rommel in the Operation Crusader scenario and a marginal victory as the Russians in the Brusilov Offensive.

Unity of Command Red Turn was another one as well - once the rhythm and tempo of Deep Battle finally clicked, I found it even more enjoyable than playing as the Germans and I played every scenario in that expansion over 2 weeks straight.

There are maybe some games that I might not ever get the urge to play, but it's such a nice problem to have, don't you think?

(in reply to vonRocko)

Post #: 6

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 6:06:50 PM

wings7

Posts: 4591
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From: Phoenix, Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: danlongman

I have a library of over 1000 games of various types and ages.
Many of them I will never even really look at.
But they are mine, Mine, MINE!!!!! MINE!!!
I HAVE MANY GAMES!!!!
I AM RICH BEYOND COMPARE!!!
I frequently cannot decide what to play.
These are a rich man's problems.

(in reply to danlongman)

Post #: 7

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 7:41:15 PM

MrsWargamer

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Joined: 6/18/2014
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1000 games is nothing.

I have an internet connection, I have newsgroups services, I can have in my possession every game ever released.

It won't make the day longer though. And well 2/3s of those games will suck.

This is 2014, you don't need to be rich to have, you just have to want to get.

Right now though, all I really want is some shortbread cookies :) It's neat I can make those though.

(in reply to wings7)

Post #: 8

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 8:17:56 PM

Rising-Sun

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From: Clifton Park, NY
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I do have some older games, like Great Naval Battles III Fury in the Pacific, Gary Grisby Warship, Destiny World Domination, etcs. Some of these games require DOSBOX and older machines.

I was hoping these companies would remake them into better engines without changing too much details. For example, Blizzards ruined Diablo III, instead I wish they remade Diablo II with same graphics, etcs.

So many games are turning out different, based on who made them and not getting their facts right or lack of interfaces. Poor designs, etcs.

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Post #: 9

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 9:26:47 PM

terje439

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To answer the headline question, yes I suppose we do. As allready mentioned, Diablo III...I too wished for a remade Diablo II, the newer Xcom games, too little research and to linear compared to the original etc.
But I think that that is more about wanting to rewoke some old feelings and relive our past. My main gripe with games these days is that most of the mainstream games are made too simple (thx to the instant gratification generation).

I long for games that forces you to really spend time with them to master them, not just sit down for an hour. I suppose that is why I keep coming back to the games here at matrixgames...

Terje

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 9:31:23 PM

jcjordan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I would pay a lot to be able to play some of the old stuff again. Great Naval Battles comes to mind right away.

Sadly, not gonna happen

Dang I had forgotten about that series. I guess I'll need to start looking

I've just recently restarted Darklands w/ DOSBox but still wish an updated form of it or the expansion packs they planned would come out

(in reply to Lecivius)

Post #: 11

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 10:00:15 PM

Joe D.

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Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Today I am trying to maximize on an urge I had yesterday, that being to play some more of my games.

With very limited successes.

Because I keep coming up against a hassle of the games aged, and the environment they are now in has moved on ...

In some cases, I bought the game, (because I bought the hype) and now, well I never got around to the game, and time marches on, and someone has since made a game for that setting, and it actually runs properly, without needing geek skill to figure out why it isn't running on a perfectly fine computer ...

Even in a virtual world, nothing runs "perfectly" when MS releases Op Systems that haven't been properly alpha tested.

However, in my experience few sims stand the test of time; TOAW and WitP comes to mind, but not much more.

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Post #: 12

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 10:16:56 PM

aaatoysandmore

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Battles of Napoleon comes to mind Joe.

I think that game will stand the test of time for many more years to come.

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Post #: 13

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 10:22:01 PM

MrsWargamer

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I concur, too many remakes were more or less ruined recreations.

I am very glad I conquered getting Steel Panthers Brigade Combat to run once again. Well no, I didn't really do it, I sat here while my buddy used Team Viewer and controlled my system remotely and fixed it for me.

That young man makes me feel like a useless wench some days :)

Team Viewer is likely the best piece of software I have on my computer. It ensures I can call my friend and say help, somethings not working!! And then I get to feel like he's essentially thinking 'what did you do this time'.

(in reply to Joe D.)

Post #: 14

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 11:46:24 PM

geozero

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Steel Panthers was perhaps one the best games. Solid play. Solid design. Great graphics (for its time anyway). Map editor. Auto-Battle Generator. STEEL PANTHERS was the defacto Advanced Squad Leader for the PC. Why can't this be brought back? I worked with Matrix 12 years ago on a newer version of the game... it would have KICKED ASS. Then, it was dropped. Just like Combined Arms was dropped. Amazing games that would have generated great sales were dropped for mediocre games. Which is why I don't play anymore. Sigh.

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/26/2014 11:59:11 PM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

Steel Panthers was perhaps one the best games. Solid play. Solid design. Great graphics (for its time anyway). Map editor. Auto-Battle Generator. STEEL PANTHERS was the defacto Advanced Squad Leader for the PC. Why can't this be brought back? I worked with Matrix 12 years ago on a newer version of the game... it would have KICKED ASS. Then, it was dropped. Just like Combined Arms was dropped. Amazing games that would have generated great sales were dropped for mediocre games. Which is why I don't play anymore. Sigh.

Yes it was titled Combat Leader and I think it was in production at least 5 years. Then one day they just announced it was canned and never told us why. We all wanted that game we still do, but, then in its place I think they made Battle Academy and though it is ok to play it's just not the same. Doesn't feel the same and is more like playing chess and checkers than a real Steel Panthers remake.

But then again a Battles of Napoleon remake was canceled as well. Two great games we all wanted a remake of and they both got canned. But at least out of the smoke and fire Command Ops and Panzer Command came out. But, they seem so few and far between. How longs it been now since Panzer Command Osfront was released and we were promised a West Front version of it?

It always seems we just can't get what we really want in a wargame, many get so close but they are not the same. There's been a call for a remake of Age of Rifles as well that has gone unanswered.

For the monster gamers they seem willing to comply. games like WitP Admiral, WitE, and recently Flames of War. But the little guy still waits on the one he/she really wants. Well at least I am. Maybe you got yours.

(in reply to geozero)

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 12:13:22 AM

geozero

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You are spot on ^^^^

I didn't want to quote the name, but you have it correct. That "new" version would have been awesome. I think that the marketing folks think that if you put a game out that has editor with infinite choices of battles you may not buy anything else. That is BAD marketing. Good games tend to attract players into the genre who will buy other games.

Steel Panthers was the ASL of its day. CL would have been soooooo much better. Combined Arms would have been the V For Victory Games of its days... again, no progress. Dead.

Age of Rifles was another awesome game. Dead.

WitP series... own them all, ok to play, but I like squad tactics.

What we get are "series" games, like the Panzer re-has games. You get a game with 10 battles, then another series, etc. After a while it's boring. No strategy, you just need to get to hex X before you run out of turns. That's not good gaming. That's not re-playability. THAT IS WHY THE GENRE IS DEAD BECAUSE THE GAME MAKERS HAVE KILLED IT.

On the other side of the spectrum you have RTS games. Click fest - meh. I want to really THINK about the tactics like I did playing Avalon Hill games whether it was ASL or Third Reich.

Today's game makers have missed the mark. By a long shot.

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JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 12:20:21 AM

geozero

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BTW there was actually a Squad Leader PC game that came out in 2000!!!

http://www.gamespot.com/squad-leader/

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JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 12:35:38 AM

MrsWargamer

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We don't speak of that game Geo :)

Battle Academy is a Slitherine creation that came from a BBC doodle that was some sort of online game prior to Slitherine modifying it. No Matrix Games connection there.

Gary mentioned he's going to redo Steel Panther, but, he seems obsessed with making monster games at the moment. I'd rather have Steel Panther remade from the ground up instead of War in the West and War in the Med and War all over the entire European theatre to be honest.

Combat Leader looked like it might have been nice. But, I think along the way too often too many times the original great idea seems to get lost, and then before you know it it's in 3d and the games controls are a pain to control.

I will say this much though, Panzer Command Ost Front is likely ahead of any other title in this style of game for me. But I still uninstalled it today. I don't like spending a lot of effort just to view the map. The Battle Academy games are all able to do it with controls you barely even notice. I wish the other designers would learn from each other, not pretend they can always do it better than the other guy.

(in reply to geozero)

Post #: 19

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 12:44:09 AM

geozero

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LOL MrsWargamer...

Since I was diagnosed a few years ago as a game junkie I admit that even I owned a copy of that crappy game... hehe. At least back them it came in a cardboard box which has some nostalgic smell to it... much like opening an Avalon Hill game for the first time... ahhhh, the scent of cardboard maps and game pieces.

Anyway, I digress.

I have not heard of Gary doing any SP games. And I do agree I would rather see an SP game than some other... whatever... world at...

If I was a programmer I'd have done it already. I have contemplated doing a fund raiser through Kickstarter or similar and outsourcing the design/programming through guru.com or something. Hmmm...

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JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 12:55:37 AM

Rosseau

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Yes, Steel Panthers (and MBT) would be incredible if they could (optionally) take out some of the micromanagement for us older folks. I will not be buying WitW, because I'll never have time to play it, and I'm trying to find someone to take World in Flames off my hands

To some extent, the Mrs. may be talking about getting jaded. Years ago, when I had a limited number of games I would be sure to play the best ones last, so I wouldn't get jaded. But I lost that habit. Now, how can I not possibly become jaded after playing games like CMANO and WitP-AE? I recently booted up the latest Harpoon series and almost threw up

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 12:57:27 AM

rwenstrup

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I agree with the observations here...Steel Panthers and the others should be in their third or fourth iteration. The quality of games has gone down in my opinion. More are made...but the extent of effort is less.

Seems to me that there is a market for a new publisher who works on classic games. They would probably cost a lot more that the ipad games you can buy today...but they would have the depth and play-ability that would make them worth it. I would definitely buy them.

I have been a loyal fan of Matrix Games since they released Steel Panthers for free. I thought it was a brilliant strategy. Seems to me they have lost the insight they once displayed and now aspire to be a mass distributor of games. So be it...another publisher will come along. I suspect that the recent change by the Command Ops team had something to do with this issue.

Sad...

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 1:03:21 AM

geozero

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I beta tested World In Flames years ago and asked kindly to get out. It was a mess back then and it is now I suspect. The game has no AI from my understanding as that was ditched. The designers wanted to stick to original board game graphics instead of bringing it to a more current look... bad mistake IMO. At that point your entire marketing hinges on the gamers that already have WiF and just looking for a PC version so they can reclaim their dinner table. It does nothing to bring on new players or foster the wargaming genre. And the cost... holy cow...

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 1:27:29 AM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

BTW there was actually a Squad Leader PC game that came out in 2000!!!

http://www.gamespot.com/squad-leader/

Omg did someone speak of that awful game? I cannot believe they got to put the good name of Squad Leader on that mess of a game.

(in reply to geozero)

Post #: 24

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 2:10:02 AM

geozero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

BTW there was actually a Squad Leader PC game that came out in 2000!!!

http://www.gamespot.com/squad-leader/

Omg did someone speak of that awful game? I cannot believe they got to put the good name of Squad Leader on that mess of a game.

Yes, and now you will have nightmare visions of a game gone horribly wrong.

Actually the story behind that was that AH was going to support that game, and then I think AH went belly up and HASBRO who took over did a terrible job and thought they would do well...

Something like that if my feeble memory serves me correct.

I actually still had that boxed game until about 3 months ago... I threw out a lot of games. Just sick of the whole thing. LOL

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RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 4:00:29 AM

MrsWargamer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

I beta tested World In Flames years ago and asked kindly to get out. It was a mess back then and it is now I suspect. The game has no AI from my understanding as that was ditched. The designers wanted to stick to original board game graphics instead of bringing it to a more current look... bad mistake IMO. At that point your entire marketing hinges on the gamers that already have WiF and just looking for a PC version so they can reclaim their dinner table. It does nothing to bring on new players or foster the wargaming genre. And the cost... holy cow...

Actually, the ONLY reason I bought it was the table reason. I have a perfectly good copy of the boar game, and, it basically comes down to it or use the room for everything else. It lost the fight for the room. The books are great, no denying their value. Noooooooot entirely sure about the software. I have kinda fizzled in my drive to get into it.

No AI, couldn't care less. I find it fascinating people seriously believe an AI is actually going to play that game credibly. Want to buy some swamp land?

Then there are other famous board games, and really they were designed on the assumption that being a board game, it would be played by one of more real people, and the turn sequence wouldn't be a problem, because the other person would be sitting there waiting to impart their actions.
ASL as an option through VASL works because it's just an interface for two people playing it at the same time. As a computer program, hehe that's really kinda funny. I wouldn't beta it at gun point.

It's not that games need awesome graphics, they need awesome designs. If the game is a bad idea, it won't matter how great it looks, because a great looking bad idea is still not worth anything from being a bad idea.

I think a lot of the games coming out on tablets have a lot of potential to deliver on the fun not because they tablet games, but because being tablet games, they have had to be made simple, uncluttered with unneeded excess and are easy to play. My only emerging truth, is if I am in the same room as my laptop, while using my tablet, why not use the laptop?

But I got into wargaming, when a wargame looked like Tactics II (which would be awesome on a tablet), and when Squad Leader was considered the bench mark for a complicated game. Then it was rated I think a 7-9 out of 10 for complexity. Today, it might be lucky to reach a 5 if you compare it to our cluttered, complicated, poorly thought out interfaces in wargames.

I have noticed, they don't make manuals to explain the game, they make manuals to explain the interface. I am used to reading manuals to explain the game, and the interface needs no explanation at all. That is actually what is great about Battle Academy. The tutorial lasts about a minute maybe two, and it is blindly simple. There is almost no reason for a manual for Battle Academy. Everything you learn, is basically experience based learning. Finding out what units do what best. That's like learning how to win in Chess.

(in reply to geozero)

Post #: 26

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 7:50:29 AM

rhondabrwn

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Great observations Mrs Wargamer... enjoying the thread.

Let me add this one... you have a game in your collection that you haven't gotten into yet, but then... then... the new and improved edition comes out. Example... Birth of America > Birth of America 2: Wars in America. Now do I just trash the original game (having wasted the money) or stubbornly insist on playing it to "get my money's worth"? How about the games that now have an "AE" edition? "Victoria" and "Victoria II"... Cross of Iron I, II, III, IV... Europa Universalis I, II, III, and now IV?

Sometimes the newer games are not arguably better, just different, so the older games are not obsolete.

Ah... the dilemma of being a game collector who buys everything in sight and then can't find the time to play more than a handful of them :( Sometimes I think I get more enjoyment out of the act of installation and updating and maintaining my collection than I ever get out of playing them. I religiously download and install every patch for every game that I have installed... I seek out mods and install them... all for a game that has never been played and probably never will be... totally insane behavior!

Deleting old games makes a lot of sense if you have the willpower to do so

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 27

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 9:09:10 AM

aaatoysandmore

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline

Wouldn't you just love though to see a computer version of "Feudal"? My 2nd ex and I used to play that all the time. Loved the minatures aspect of it and the chesslike play, it was actually made for chesslike play and not really any kind of wargame although it presented itself in a medieval atmosphere. Great game. I can't believe no one has ever converted it to pc. Course I can't believe a lot of good games that are boardgames haven't been converted to the pc like American Heritage games. I've wanted a "DogFight" conversion for years and "Broadsides" was a lot of fun too. Even "BattleCry" was pretty good but I didn't play it as much as the other two. I never had "Hit the Beach" though.

(in reply to rhondabrwn)

Post #: 28

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 9:25:29 AM

chemkid

Posts: 1238
Joined: 12/15/2012
Status: offline

.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/24/2018 12:14:15 PM >

(in reply to rhondabrwn)

Post #: 29

RE: Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us i... - 9/27/2014 9:28:57 AM

ribaluigi

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/26/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer
I'd rather turn on the computer and see 5 games I actually MIGHT play, instead of seeing more than 50 games, and I never get around to them and in some cases I fail to notice that they don't even run now.

I totally agree! Now I try to only install games that I might play and I have completely stopped buying new ones (at least for one year). Having only a game (or two) on your pc forces you to actually play them.

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 30