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WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 9:38:34 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		I have the honor to present you with WitE 1.08 change log. It has doubled in size since my previous posts with change log statistics, so it's nearly like a solid book now. You may wish to skip "specific changes" sections, as they were generated automatically and contain every single change made to the data files, which makes a very dry reading. Other sections were written by hand, and should be more interesting. If there are any spelling or grammar errors, it's my fault (because I'm not a native speaker). I'm sorry, you'll have to endure these.

WitE Changelog in numbers:
- 144 new features
- 63 bug fixes
- 45 scenario changes
- 5 general device changes
- 130 specific device changes
- 13 general ground element changes
- 392 specific ground element changes
- 12 general aircraft changes
- 293 specific aircraft changes
- 7 general TOE changes
- 93 specific TOE changes
- 2 general leader changes
- 24 specific leader changes
- 77 pages

Finally, some credits. This patch is not a one-man show, and was brought to you by:

Code: morvael
Updating and expanding generic data, scenarios, pictures, and translations: Denniss
Initial generic data update: el hefe, jaw, morvael
Some pictures: Omat, Red Lancer
Testing, feedback, bug reporting, discussion (in alphabetical order): abulbulian, Blubel, carlkay58, Denniss, dlazov66, DrewBlack, el hefe, Flaviusx, gingerbread, goranw, governato, Michael T, morvael, Pelton, Red Lancer, timmyab
Also, I want to thank Joel Billings and 2by3 for letting me work on this great game. This doesn't happen often in the world of commercial software products, for an outsider to be granted access to the source code, and should be applauded.

If someone is missing from the list - I'm very sorry.

So now I leave you to ponder over this monstrous change log... I guess we'll have a flame war here soon, as no doubt some changes favour the Axis, and some favour the Soviets, so both camps will have something to get angry at.

Download the change log here.

edit: added some missing credits, about those with whom Denniss was working.

< Message edited by morvael -- 10/16/2014 11:05:20 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 9:48:54 AM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Well done!




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(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 2
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 11:01:00 AM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		27. Scenarios and games saved under this version will not load under older versions of the game.

Great to see this feature back.

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 3
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 11:23:41 AM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		How about games currently in progress ? Any info of the impact of applying the new patch on them ?

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Post #: 4
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 11:50:29 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		In most aspects they should be ok, as the game alters some necessary data to required format. However:
a) some equipment will end up in wrong places due to old upgrade paths (where they represented "factory" not "field" upgrades, like Panzer IIf may be selected to fill slots calling for Wespe SP Artillery)
b) some of the new statistics will be incomplete, starting from 0
c) some of the new functions will not work, like conversions
d) no benefit from the vastly improved and expanded device, ground equipment, aircraft, TOE, leader and scenario data

That said I intend to upgrade to 1.08 for the final turns of my PBEM game as it is on turn 179, but if I were in the first 10-20 turns, I would like to restart it.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 5
WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 12:42:32 PM   
Oshawott

 

Posts: 1353
Joined: 10/30/2013
Status: offline 		Is it possible to play two different versions of WitE on the same computer?

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Post #: 6
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 12:52:34 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Yes, first install and update to 1.07.15, then copy it somewhere else, then update the main game to 1.08. That way you can play 1.08 in the main install directory, and 1.07.15 using the copy.

(in reply to Oshawott)
Post #: 7
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 1:57:03 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		If we stay in the old WITE version some times to follow ongoing multiplayer games.

Does the multi server will still be compatible with the old version of the game ?

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 10/16/2014 2:58:52 PM >

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 8
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 2:02:00 PM   
Eambar


Posts: 240
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks to Morvael and everyone who worked on 1.08, very much appreciated. Looks like this should take us through to WiTE 2.0!

Cheers,

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 9
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 2:15:41 PM   
Oshawott

 

Posts: 1353
Joined: 10/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

Yes, first install and update to 1.07.15, then copy it somewhere else, then update the main game to 1.08. That way you can play 1.08 in the main install directory, and 1.07.15 using the copy.


Thanks, will do.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 10
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 2:23:24 PM   
Oshawott

 

Posts: 1353
Joined: 10/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

Soviet national morale changed to the following: January 1941 to June 1941 40, July 1941 to March 1942 45, April 1942 to September 1942 40, October 1942 to December 1942 45,
January 1943 to June 1943 50, July 1943 to December 1943 55, January 1944 to December 1945 60.


This is a huge change! I would be very careful changing any other settings before this is thoroughly tested.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 11
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 3:09:53 PM   
Commanderski


Posts: 927
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Very impressive and thorough update. A billion and thank you's!

(in reply to Oshawott)
Post #: 12
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 3:52:00 PM   
Champagne


Posts: 356
Joined: 9/28/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not sure that the update feature on my installation works well.

Where can we find the patch when it's released?

I assume a link will be posted in this august forum.



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Post #: 13
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 6:44:46 PM   
Oshawott

 

Posts: 1353
Joined: 10/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

HQ build up was changed to become part of the normal supply system, instead of being a separate entity.


quote:

During supply phase those units are eligible to replenish their stocks over the usual 100% by 25% plus the amount of their build up bonus multiplied by 0.75 (rounding up).


Morvael, this looks like a very interesting rule change. However, I am not sure if I understand it correctly. When exactly do the units receive fuel/supplies after a buildup? At the end of the other players turn?

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 14
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 6:58:06 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		When all other units of the same side recieve their supplies. Technically it's at start of their turn, but since this is executed after enemy player turn, you can see it the other way round.

Edit: in the old system all supplies, fuel and ammo were magically teleported to units from far away cities in the moment you clicked HQBU button. The new way is more realistic, but can be disrupted by enemy.

< Message edited by morvael -- 10/16/2014 8:01:41 PM >

(in reply to Oshawott)
Post #: 15
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 7:04:54 PM   
Oshawott

 

Posts: 1353
Joined: 10/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

Edit: in the old system all supplies, fuel and ammo were magically teleported to units from far away cities in the moment you clicked HQBU button. The new way is more realistic, but can be disrupted by enemy.


That's what I was going for with my question. Pretty cool!

Also, HQ muling is no longer possible. Thank you very much!

But what about random weather? This could potentially disrupt an executed HQ buildup?

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 16
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 7:13:02 PM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		-

< Message edited by hfarrish -- 6/9/2015 3:15:02 PM >

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Post #: 17
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 7:13:50 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Just like regular resupply, more MP in bad weather = higher penalty. But all the penalties are halved for units doing buildup (at the cost of using double the number of trucks vs normal resupply), so those units would still end supplied better than their neighbours.

< Message edited by morvael -- 10/16/2014 8:14:00 PM >

(in reply to Oshawott)
Post #: 18
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 7:23:25 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


Love the changes related to forts and the limits on fort construction - hopefully the death of WW1. Increased reserve activations (particularly on offense) should also be huge.

On National Morale - what are the existing parameters for the Soviets? Also...Germans really were stuck at 70 for the entire game in the current version? That decline to 55 will be huge.


Especially with fort game setting below 100... Things start to get interesting. But where you build up to level 3 (LG?), such position will be protected from panzers due to dense terrain bonus, and infantry will have to do the job.

Yes, Germany should be severely weakened at the end of the war. The game was balanced with the bug existing, thus the balance will now change considerably (I'd say 41 is slightly pro-Axis now, 42 much more pro-Axis, but then things go downhill for them fast). That's why this must be a public beta for a long time - we need more people playing to discover new balance, it was impossible to do it in private development group only. Or you would see the patch in 2016. Sudden death scenarios may be especially dangerous now, so I suggest normal GC is safer choice.

New Soviet morale is listed somewhere in the log.

Good thing is - anyone can mod this now to some extent (per-country per-year) in scenario parameters.

< Message edited by morvael -- 10/16/2014 8:24:10 PM >

(in reply to hfarrish)
Post #: 19
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 7:39:35 PM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		-

< Message edited by hfarrish -- 6/9/2015 3:14:33 PM >

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Post #: 20
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 7:40:26 PM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		-


< Message edited by hfarrish -- 6/9/2015 3:14:43 PM >

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Post #: 21
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 7:47:06 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		I don't think there will be clicking involved. Certainly if you want to push some things you have the manual update available. It's just that units in reserve or at the rear get the first chance to swap/upgrade. But those at the front can do it as well. And there is a special protection added so that no aircraft will change to U-2VS using the automated procedure, so it's safer for the ShAPs on Il-2 now, and there is no need to kill U-2VS factories :)

Current morale arc was listed in the manual with updates. Biggest difference is lower morale in summer 42. And lower morale at start in 1941. In turn morale 60 is obtained faster in 1944.

< Message edited by morvael -- 10/16/2014 8:48:06 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 8:02:56 PM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		-


< Message edited by hfarrish -- 6/8/2015 11:37:22 PM >

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Post #: 23
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 10:02:35 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

quote:

HQ build up was changed to become part of the normal supply system, instead of being a separate entity.


quote:

During supply phase those units are eligible to replenish their stocks over the usual 100% by 25% plus the amount of their build up bonus multiplied by 0.75 (rounding up).


Morvael, this looks like a very interesting rule change. However, I am not sure if I understand it correctly. When exactly do the units receive fuel/supplies after a buildup? At the end of the other players turn?


No muling and the change to HQBU has good and bad points from GHC side of things.

I tested HQBU allot and you can do build ups and not get max MP's, its very important as GHC not to move stuff
( HQ's and AB's) unless you have to the first 3-4 turns.

The same dog chain from .7 applies but more so.

U can rest your panzers for a turn then the following turn do a HQBU. You have allot of fuel and can zoom zoom for a turn and then have some fuel for the following turn, but then your screwed.

Your panzers are way past railheads and unlike before don't get jack for fuel.
Playing vs AI I had 1 PA out of fuel for 4 turns ( 1 MP ), I still then had to take another turn moving them back. The port exploit has been nerfed, but thankfully Romanian can't be heheh
So they were usless for 6 full turns.
VS a human player they were toast.

The fort change is big.

I had to rethink allot of stuff. Turns 1-4 might feel the same but after that its a different game.

One huge change is the air war.


< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/16/2014 11:05:56 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/16/2014 11:57:55 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

I have the honor to present you with WitE 1.08 change log. It has doubled in size since my previous posts with change log statistics, so it's nearly like a solid book now. You may wish to skip "specific changes" sections, as they were generated automatically and contain every single change made to the data files, which makes a very dry reading. Other sections were written by hand, and should be more interesting. If there are any spelling or grammar errors, it's my fault (because I'm not a native speaker). I'm sorry, you'll have to endure these.

WitE Changelog in numbers:
- 144 new features
- 63 bug fixes
- 45 scenario changes
- 5 general device changes
- 130 specific device changes
- 13 general ground element changes
- 392 specific ground element changes
- 12 general aircraft changes
- 293 specific aircraft changes
- 7 general TOE changes
- 93 specific TOE changes
- 2 general leader changes
- 24 specific leader changes
- 77 pages



Awesome work and reading through the first part of the notes there are many sensible changes, especially in the replacement/logistics system which I hope make it into WITW or at least WITE 2.

Regarding morale, is it feasible or even theoretically possible to tie it to certain loss thresholds? Right now I don't see much upside to a German player going for force conservation, while the Soviet player should also have the possibility to benefit from a less disastrous 41, early 42.


Is the below WAD?

[43]Elefant,,upgrade changed from[42]Jagdpanther to 350,factory upgrade changed from 0 to 350.

Everywhere else except the 10/4 SP Flak a number at the place of 350 seems to be associated with a device name.

EDIT: Scrap that, see it in a few places, but leaving the above anyway just in case it might be a bug. I'm also seeing several symbol changes that don't seem to make sense, f.e. the symbol being changed to 0 and the super heavy classification seems to be missing in at least one case. I'm taking notes as I go along so if you want I can post the list numbers.



< Message edited by MechFO -- 10/17/2014 2:44:36 AM >

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 25
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/17/2014 5:11:21 AM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		The key change in all of this is dropping Soviet morale to 40 in the Summer of 42. If the Axis player doesn't take Moscow in 1941, he has a second chance in 42. If the Axis player is close to Moscow but fails to take it, that seems the moment for the Soviet player to invest in a good number of his own fort units (weaker though they may be, it's still better than nothing) to prepare for defense the following summer. If the Axis doesn't win by the end of 1942, he's in trouble. The increased cost in forts will be more challenging certainly. How much more remains to be seen.

Leningrad seems to be back on the endangered species list.

Regiment SU costs from 1 to 2 and the reduced effectiveness of Soviet AA means there will be little point investing in those units, even though the organic AA support disappears from the rifle divisions in late 42. The Soviet player won't need as many sapper regiments to break down fort zones so the increased AP cost for those becomes something of a wash.

Reduced costs against the max load for air units means less taxing of the truck and supply for the VVS, and subsequently the Red Army. On the subject of the VVS, I would have liked to see a change where the AI could be programmed or told to stop building air units at some point in time. By wars end, the AI creates enough units for the Soviet to field 700-800 regiments which is pure overkill. My own experience is by the end of 1942, the VVS doesn't need more units. Just let the aircraft pools fill and replace/upgrade where necessary.

Increased command capacity for shock and guards army... ok, sounds good. Allows adding another corps to them.

1 week delay in factory evacuations will hurt the Soviet player obviously. Results will vary. And once again the Soviet arms multiplier takes a hit. Yes, so do the Germans but the Soviet cut is deeper.

"Super heavy artillery" impacting forts to a greater extent. I wonder if the 280mm siege mortar will be making a comeback.


(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 26
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/17/2014 6:03:22 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

The key change in all of this is dropping Soviet morale to 40 in the Summer of 42. If the Axis player doesn't take Moscow in 1941, he has a second chance in 42. If the Axis player is close to Moscow but fails to take it, that seems the moment for the Soviet player to invest in a good number of his own fort units (weaker though they may be, it's still better than nothing) to prepare for defense the following summer. If the Axis doesn't win by the end of 1942, he's in trouble. The increased cost in forts will be more challenging certainly. How much more remains to be seen.



I like the morale change, I think it creates just the right situation for the summer of 1942. The flip side to Moscow being at risk is the higher value of level 3 forts. As such, as historically, it may well tempt a German player but the fortifications around the city may force them to go somewhere else looking for a decisive battle?

The last two patches have gone a long way to ensuring that it is 1942 not 1941 that becomes the key point of decision.

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Post #: 27
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/17/2014 7:17:09 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		To answer some questions/observations:
If you see devices or upgrades changed to a number without associated name it indicates a new device/element.
Symbol changed to 0 = has it's own symbol now

The AI does still build air units but it's more focussed on upgrading existing units than to build new new units over and over. With lots of available units it may still build some with new a/c types but prefers to upgrade/swap-out outdated a/c (no I-15/16 forever).

AFAIR reduced soviet AA was a bugfix + many soviet guns had an effect rating 3 times of the german 88mm gun, if that rating was used it explained the huge axis air losses to AAA.

Increased Sov support units cost by size should be logic - the larger the size the more you pay. Will most likely not stop the sapper regt spam of human players, it just takes longer to fill HQ/Coprs with them.

< Message edited by Denniss -- 10/17/2014 8:17:20 AM >

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 28
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/17/2014 7:36:41 AM   
schascha


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline 		thx for this amazing work guys

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 29
RE: WitE 1.08 Change Log - 10/17/2014 8:31:49 AM   
gradenko2k

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
I meant what is the current Sov morale arc (for comparison purposes)?


According to the current amended WITE manual:
Jan-1941: 50, with a reduction of 1 point per month until it hits 44 in Dec-1941
Jan-1942: 45
Jan-1943: 46, with an increase of 1 point per month until it hits 57 in Dec-1944
Jan-1944: 58, with a continued increase of 1 point per month until it hits 60 in Mar-1944
Jan-1945: 60

According to these patch notes:
Jan-1941: 40, with an increase to 45 by Jul-1941 until Dec-1941
Jan-1942: 45 until Mar-1942, with a reduction to 40 from Apr-1942 to Sep-1942, then an increase to 45 from Oct-1942 to Dec-1942
Jan-1943: 50, with an increase to 55 in Jul-1943 to Dec-1943
Jan-1944: 60
Jan-1945: 60

I made a graph:



< Message edited by gradenko_2000 -- 10/17/2014 9:37:07 AM >

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Post #: 30
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