house rules - is WitE imbalanced?

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house rules - is WitE imbalanced?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> house rules - is WitE imbalanced?

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house rules - is WitE imbalanced? - 10/16/2014 9:28:30 PM

SunTsu

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Joined: 6/29/2013
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The current discussion about Lvov, mild winter and other houserules makes me wondering if WitE really is imbalanced so it is needed to balance it by houserules... In principle I am a friend of short contracts instead of long and difficult agreements.

I know that there were things to be solved like the potential to break railroads by paratroops so some players made the houserule of no drop more than 5 hexes behind the frontline. Or the possibility to bomb HQ again and again to kill the commander wich is quite unrealistic too. These are usefull rules since the developers in this case overlooked the potential of an cheesy trick in the game.

But is the game so much imbalanced that we need rules like mild winter or Lvov or any other rules? Or do these rules pop up because some players feel the game could be easier for one side with the result that these rules become spreaded in the community and someone else need to define a new rule to balance again the imbalance that was made by the rule?

Russians have problems with Lvov - so they make a "no pocket rule". But because this the Russians can bring units to Moscow who causes problems for the Germans there. So a new rule is needed that tells the Russians where they may go and where not. Germans have problems with the first winter - so they ask for a mild winter option. This causes problems for the russians in 42 so maybe we will get another option to choose something like "strong russians in summer 42"...

Do we really need those rules to balance imbalances?

< Message edited by SunTsu -- 10/16/2014 10:30:47 PM >

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RE: house rules - is WitE imbalanced? - 10/16/2014 10:15:50 PM

Peltonx

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Joined: 4/9/2006
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The mild winter option is really much more historical then the standard winter.

The winter was made more nasty then historical because when the game was released the logistics system was horrible.

GHC could run all over the place like the tanks ran on nuke fuel not oil.

Lvov pocket was historically possible, but unlike the GHC we know where the enemy units are.

The game is getting more and more balanced, most of the balance issues were because players exploited rulesets and allot of stuff was simply broken and no working ( swapping bugs, ammo bug long long list)

1v1=2v1 was more of a balancing rule that is really not nessary any more.

The para drop issue is simply piss poor game design and has nothing to do with balance - it is an exploit of a shty ruleset.

This para drop issue is still a big fat exploit that has yet to be addressed.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/16/2014 11:17:38 PM >

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(in reply to SunTsu)

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RE: house rules - is WitE imbalanced? - 10/17/2014 1:33:27 AM

swkuh

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Joined: 10/5/2009
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Mild winter/winter... which is more correct, or, where can the balance can be drawn? Experts who want a good game should draw their lines, negotiate rules, and go at it.

Para drops, same old, same old.

And after a few games, we all know where the forces are and what they bring.

Pelton is right, the game is better now than before; hope 1.08 proves to be delightful.

But, WitE has been fun since get-go, and even the continuous drama of "new" versions has been fun. If it were simple minded it wouldn't worthwhile, even if error free.

(in reply to Peltonx)

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RE: house rules - is WitE imbalanced? - 10/17/2014 6:56:10 AM

loki100

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Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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I'd say the fundamental issue is that WiTE is not unbalanced but that it is unstable. There are a lot of 'rich get richer' mechanisms that mean one side or the other can take and enhance an advantage to the point it becomes one sider. The frictionless rails then remove the supply constraint that historically undermined whatever operational advantage the Germans had in 1942 and slowed the Soviet riposte in 1943-44.

Just look at the current batch of AARs. We are mostly seeing two relatively extreme variants of 1942. An axis offensive that is quickly smothered or one that escalates to finishing off the Red Army ... and here the lack of a logistic constraint (if you are close to the rails) is critical.

Having said that 1.08 is clearly going to play very differently, so I suspect it will be a case of watching enough iterations to gain a view. The new rules on forts will mean that the few high level sectors are going to be very hard to breach, but covering most of the front with multiple level 2 belts will be near impossible. Equally the new HQBU routine may go some way to mitigate the advantage of frictionless rails.

So I think it comes down to relative player competence with their respective sides. If I'm playing with a new opponent I like to replay Road to Smolensk. Its quick and fairly well balanced, so you have a feel if one of you is likely to have a run away victory in a campaign.

I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise, but I do think no 1-1/2-1 (good) and mild winter is a recipe for a sure German success. Have played a lot with the mild winter now and it gives a better experience for both sides but in the current imbalanced framework. Without the +1 the Soviet side will be too weak.

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RE: house rules - is WitE imbalanced? - 10/17/2014 9:31:24 AM

SunTsu

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Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline

Interesting comments...

Version .08 seems to be very intersting stuff. But in the past we had some discussions in the forums of problems that came up because of new versions (like the moral matter some time ago), that had to be solved with another new version. So I am a bit carefull with new versions until I install them and run a match with them.

Does anybody know when it will arrive?

At the moment I tend to a setup with mild winter and no Lvov pocket. Because of the mistakes in the map one could design a rule for the russians in 1944 to make it a bit harder to retake the city. Or as a second choice no mild winter and no restrictions for the germans in turn 1. No ohter rules.

For .08 I guess no 1:1=1:2 AND mild winter is too hard for SHC. Especially if the german opponent is stronger.

< Message edited by SunTsu -- 10/17/2014 10:33:34 AM >

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 5