Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Adding more detail isn't good for a game. Especially details that don't amount to much. Keep it simple is the way to go. From what I have been reading it's working very well too like they made it. The more stuff they add to be somewhat realistic just makes the AI that much worse.

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ORIGINAL: djitters19

User friendly mechanics with good graphics make for a playable, straightforward game. This game has both, I especially like the battle generator! You may have answered this in another thread but I didn't see it, is there(I hope) a 18th century/Napoleonic warfare game similar to Pike and Shot in the works?

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ORIGINAL: rbodleyscott

Victorious units will usually have suffered losses which degrade their subsequent combat ability. These losses, although low for a computer game, are probably higher than is strictly realistic. In part, therefore, they act as a substitute for fatigue recording.

I am not afraid to agree that compromises have been made in the name of playability. That is what game design is all about.

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ORIGINAL: vaalen

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ORIGINAL: rbodleyscott

Victorious units will usually have suffered losses which degrade their subsequent combat ability. These losses, although low for a computer game, are probably higher than is strictly realistic. In part, therefore, they act as a substitute for fatigue recording.

I am not afraid to agree that compromises have been made in the name of playability. That is what game design is all about.

In playing the game, it seems as if fatigue is modeled, in the way units behave. Units that have been in combat are less efficient, and seem to move more slowly. There is a morale status that degrades the effectiveness of units, and units are much more likely to break in the later stages of the game than in the earlier ones. It also seems that units can move more hexes in the earlier game than the later game. It is very difficult to get units that have returned from a long pursuit back into the battle, as they seem to have less action points.

While it appears that fatigue may not be specifically modeled, the game plays as if it was, based on my experience.

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units that are fragmented lose the ability to maneuver well, (loss of AP's)
*units with high casualties (under AI control) are very reluctant to close the distance, basically they don't want to autobreak
*some units, especially lights, when fired upon when moving sometimes lose AP or the ability to reach the target tile (basically interdiction fire)

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It also seems that units can move more hexes in the earlier game than the later game. It is very difficult to get units that have returned from a long pursuit back into the battle, as they seem to have less action points.

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ORIGINAL: pacwar

Well that is disappointing...simple is one thing, unrealistic is another. I don't think that including the impacts of fatigue on combat effectiveness and morale is making this "somewhat" realistic. I'm not sure how it complicates the AI...the AI, like players, would just hesitate to undertake certain actions when the fatigue of a unit was high...and given the multiple rounds of melee that are the hallmark of the system the reality is that a fresh unit, even if at a slight disadvantage quality wise, if engaged in a drawn melee, can wear down an enemy unit. Fatigue is an essential element of combat at this tactical level. Based on the answer to my question about whether artillery can in fact limber or not, it would seem some unhistoric compromises have been made with this game...

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ORIGINAL: djitters19

User friendly mechanics with good graphics make for a playable, straightforward game. This game has both, I especially like the battle generator! You may have answered this in another thread but I didn't see it, is there(I hope) a 18th century/Napoleonic warfare game similar to Pike and Shot in the works?

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In this case historic doesn't matter. That the game is fun and challenging matters more (at least to the devs and most of the players I've read) so I myself can give up this fatigue and morale for a more challenging game (not all wargames have to be historical, just the setting is fine by me, I'd rather play whatif's anyways) an if I want an history lesson I can still read a book

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ORIGINAL: pacwar

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It also seems that units can move more hexes in the earlier game than the later game. It is very difficult to get units that have returned from a long pursuit back into the battle, as they seem to have less action points.

I'd be interested to hear from the designers whether what is described above is real, reduced movement for units as the scenario progresses/reduced movement for units returning after pursuit, or just a subjective observation.

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ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

But, you're the only one complaining about it so I don't think the majority really care what you think. I like the way this game is made and from the sounds of it plays. Thank goodness the devs didn't put in too much detail for gameplay. Some people just don't understand the limits on a computer game vs a boardgame. They think everything should be the same. lol

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you will never get a consensus on the definition of "what is a wargame". I think this game certainly is though.

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I attribute that to those who want factors like fatigue includes but having read our discussion have chosen to pass on the game...they vote with their wallets.

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ORIGINAL: pacwar

Given the complicated process of musket fire during this period it would seem to me that saving fire until the unit got within effective range would have been a priority, especially for first fire.

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I'd like to point out that loading a matchlock musket is not very complicated - although having a match does mean it is a bit more so than a flintlock due to the proximity of fire and gunpowder Do not be fooled by the long series of illustrations in contemporary works as they are as much artwork as practical and incorporate renaissance artistic fashion for showing the human form in action. It is also not that tiring to handle a musket and due to the methods of shooting used during the period high rates of fire were not aimed for - that starts in the last quarter of the C17th really.

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By the same token those that don't want that crap have voted with their wallets as well. I'd say in this case we far outnumber the ones that do. The game is pretty popular already. Good reviews are pouring in. Of course there are a "few" sourpusses but there always are in most games.