Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

The same Bible that commands Jews to “love your neighbor as yourself” (Leviticus 19:18) also exhorts them to “kill every man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey,” who worship any other God (1 Sam. 15:3). The same Jesus Christ who told his disciples to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) also told them that he had “not come to bring peace but the sword” (Matthew 10:34), and that “he who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36). The same Quran that warns believers “if you kill one person it is as though you have killed all of humanity” (5:32) also commands them to “slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (9:5).


How a worshiper treats these conflicting commandments depends on the believer. If you are a violent misogynist, you will find plenty in your scriptures to justify your beliefs. If you are a peaceful, democratic feminist, you will also find justification in the scriptures for your point of view.

Yes, portions of the Bible do contain phrases that direct believers to 'live by the sword'. That said, there is a big difference at the present time between Christians and Muslims.

Thousands of acts of terror have been conducted over the last 10-15 years by Muslims acting in the name of Islam, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands (most of them other Muslims).
How many acts of terror have been conducted by Christians in the name of Christinity during the same time period?

What their "Book" (Be it the Bible or the Koran) says is one thing. How the followers of the Book act on that is entirely another matter.

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

The same Bible that commands Jews to “love your neighbor as yourself” (Leviticus 19:18) also exhorts them to “kill every man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey,” who worship any other God (1 Sam. 15:3). The same Jesus Christ who told his disciples to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) also told them that he had “not come to bring peace but the sword” (Matthew 10:34), and that “he who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36). The same Quran that warns believers “if you kill one person it is as though you have killed all of humanity” (5:32) also commands them to “slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (9:5).


How a worshiper treats these conflicting commandments depends on the believer. If you are a violent misogynist, you will find plenty in your scriptures to justify your beliefs. If you are a peaceful, democratic feminist, you will also find justification in the scriptures for your point of view.

Yes, portions of the Bible do contain phrases that direct believers to 'live by the sword'. That said, there is a big difference at the present time between Christians and Muslims.

Thousands of acts of terror have been conducted over the last 10-15 years by Muslims acting in the name of Islam, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands (most of them other Muslims).
How many acts of terror have been conducted by Christians in the name of Christinity during the same time period?

What their "Book" (Be it the Bible or the Koran) says is one thing. How the followers of the Book act on that is entirely another matter.

The Muslims in this country, some 3,000,000 last I heard, are not running around bombing buildings and killing people.

What a member of a suburban megachurch in Texas calls Christianity may be radically different from what an impoverished coffee picker in the hills of Guatemala calls Christianity. The cultural practices of a Saudi Muslim, when it comes to the role of women in society, are largely irrelevant to a Muslim in a more secular society like Turkey or Indonesia.

Members of the Islamic State are Muslims for the simple fact that they declare themselves to be so. Dismissing their profession of belief prevents us from dealing honestly with the inherent problems of reconciling religious doctrine with the realities of the modern world. But considering that most of its victims are also Muslims — as are most of the forces fighting and condemning the Islamic State — the group’s self-ascribed Islamic identity cannot be used to make any logical statement about Islam as a global religion.

At the same time, critics of religion must refrain from simplistic generalizations about people of faith. It is true that in many Muslim countries, women do not have the same rights as men. But that fact alone is not enough to declare Islam a religion that is intrinsically more patriarchal than Christianity or Judaism. (It’s worth noting that Muslim-majority nations have elected women leaders on several occasions, while some Americans still debate whether the United States is ready for a female president.)

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

The same Bible that commands Jews to “love your neighbor as yourself” (Leviticus 19:18) also exhorts them to “kill every man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey,” who worship any other God (1 Sam. 15:3). The same Jesus Christ who told his disciples to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) also told them that he had “not come to bring peace but the sword” (Matthew 10:34), and that “he who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36). The same Quran that warns believers “if you kill one person it is as though you have killed all of humanity” (5:32) also commands them to “slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (9:5).


How a worshiper treats these conflicting commandments depends on the believer. If you are a violent misogynist, you will find plenty in your scriptures to justify your beliefs. If you are a peaceful, democratic feminist, you will also find justification in the scriptures for your point of view.

Yes, portions of the Bible do contain phrases that direct believers to 'live by the sword'. That said, there is a big difference at the present time between Christians and Muslims.

Thousands of acts of terror have been conducted over the last 10-15 years by Muslims acting in the name of Islam, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands (most of them other Muslims).
How many acts of terror have been conducted by Christians in the name of Christinity during the same time period?

What their "Book" (Be it the Bible or the Koran) says is one thing. How the followers of the Book act on that is entirely another matter.

The Muslims in this country, some 3,000,000 last I heard, are not running around bombing buildings and killing people.

What a member of a suburban megachurch in Texas calls Christianity may be radically different from what an impoverished coffee picker in the hills of Guatemala calls Christianity. The cultural practices of a Saudi Muslim, when it comes to the role of women in society, are largely irrelevant to a Muslim in a more secular society like Turkey or Indonesia.

Members of the Islamic State are Muslims for the simple fact that they declare themselves to be so. Dismissing their profession of belief prevents us from dealing honestly with the inherent problems of reconciling religious doctrine with the realities of the modern world. But considering that most of its victims are also Muslims — as are most of the forces fighting and condemning the Islamic State — the group’s self-ascribed Islamic identity cannot be used to make any logical statement about Islam as a global religion.

At the same time, critics of religion must refrain from simplistic generalizations about people of faith. It is true that in many Muslim countries, women do not have the same rights as men. But that fact alone is not enough to declare Islam a religion that is intrinsically more patriarchal than Christianity or Judaism. (It’s worth noting that Muslim-majority nations have elected women leaders on several occasions, while some Americans still debate whether the United States is ready for a female president.)

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

The same Bible that commands Jews to “love your neighbor as yourself” (Leviticus 19:18) also exhorts them to “kill every man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey,” who worship any other God (1 Sam. 15:3). The same Jesus Christ who told his disciples to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) also told them that he had “not come to bring peace but the sword” (Matthew 10:34), and that “he who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36). The same Quran that warns believers “if you kill one person it is as though you have killed all of humanity” (5:32) also commands them to “slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (9:5).


How a worshiper treats these conflicting commandments depends on the believer. If you are a violent misogynist, you will find plenty in your scriptures to justify your beliefs. If you are a peaceful, democratic feminist, you will also find justification in the scriptures for your point of view.

Yes, portions of the Bible do contain phrases that direct believers to 'live by the sword'. That said, there is a big difference at the present time between Christians and Muslims.

Thousands of acts of terror have been conducted over the last 10-15 years by Muslims acting in the name of Islam, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands (most of them other Muslims).
How many acts of terror have been conducted by Christians in the name of Christinity during the same time period?

What their "Book" (Be it the Bible or the Koran) says is one thing. How the followers of the Book act on that is entirely another matter.

The Muslims in this country, some 3,000,000 last I heard, are not running around bombing buildings and killing people.

What a member of a suburban megachurch in Texas calls Christianity may be radically different from what an impoverished coffee picker in the hills of Guatemala calls Christianity. The cultural practices of a Saudi Muslim, when it comes to the role of women in society, are largely irrelevant to a Muslim in a more secular society like Turkey or Indonesia.

Members of the Islamic State are Muslims for the simple fact that they declare themselves to be so. Dismissing their profession of belief prevents us from dealing honestly with the inherent problems of reconciling religious doctrine with the realities of the modern world. But considering that most of its victims are also Muslims — as are most of the forces fighting and condemning the Islamic State — the group’s self-ascribed Islamic identity cannot be used to make any logical statement about Islam as a global religion.

At the same time, critics of religion must refrain from simplistic generalizations about people of faith. It is true that in many Muslim countries, women do not have the same rights as men. But that fact alone is not enough to declare Islam a religion that is intrinsically more patriarchal than Christianity or Judaism. (It’s worth noting that Muslim-majority nations have elected women leaders on several occasions, while some Americans still debate whether the United States is ready for a female president.)

Feel free to drop by and chat about whatever is on your mind.

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

When faced with political correctness facts are useless. Only what "feels" good.

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ORIGINAL: parusski

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

When faced with political correctness facts are useless. Only what "feels" good.

+10. Political correctness is an evil all it's own.

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Te Religion of Islam teaches hate murder and death to all non believers. Pretending otherwise is stupid.

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

The west is at war with Islam. And because of stupidity and ignorance we will probably lose.

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ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

The same Bible that commands Jews to “love your neighbor as yourself” (Leviticus 19:18) also exhorts them to “kill every man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey,” who worship any other God (1 Sam. 15:3). The same Jesus Christ who told his disciples to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) also told them that he had “not come to bring peace but the sword” (Matthew 10:34), and that “he who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36). The same Quran that warns believers “if you kill one person it is as though you have killed all of humanity” (5:32) also commands them to “slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (9:5).


How a worshiper treats these conflicting commandments depends on the believer. If you are a violent misogynist, you will find plenty in your scriptures to justify your beliefs. If you are a peaceful, democratic feminist, you will also find justification in the scriptures for your point of view.

Yes, portions of the Bible do contain phrases that direct believers to 'live by the sword'. That said, there is a big difference at the present time between Christians and Muslims.

Thousands of acts of terror have been conducted over the last 10-15 years by Muslims acting in the name of Islam, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands (most of them other Muslims).
How many acts of terror have been conducted by Christians in the name of Christinity during the same time period?

What their "Book" (Be it the Bible or the Koran) says is one thing. How the followers of the Book act on that is entirely another matter.

The Muslims in this country, some 3,000,000 last I heard, are not running around bombing buildings and killing people.

What a member of a suburban megachurch in Texas calls Christianity may be radically different from what an impoverished coffee picker in the hills of Guatemala calls Christianity. The cultural practices of a Saudi Muslim, when it comes to the role of women in society, are largely irrelevant to a Muslim in a more secular society like Turkey or Indonesia.

Members of the Islamic State are Muslims for the simple fact that they declare themselves to be so. Dismissing their profession of belief prevents us from dealing honestly with the inherent problems of reconciling religious doctrine with the realities of the modern world. But considering that most of its victims are also Muslims — as are most of the forces fighting and condemning the Islamic State — the group’s self-ascribed Islamic identity cannot be used to make any logical statement about Islam as a global religion.

At the same time, critics of religion must refrain from simplistic generalizations about people of faith. It is true that in many Muslim countries, women do not have the same rights as men. But that fact alone is not enough to declare Islam a religion that is intrinsically more patriarchal than Christianity or Judaism. (It’s worth noting that Muslim-majority nations have elected women leaders on several occasions, while some Americans still debate whether the United States is ready for a female president.)

I am presuming that you live in the United States.

I did not mean to imply that all Muslims are killers, any more than I meant to imply that no Christians are criminal.

There are Muslims that are killing people, either in the name of Islam, or possibly inspired by Islam.

Major Nidal Hasan had become radicalized, reportedly yelled Allahu Akbar!, then went on to kill 13 people and wounds 32 others at Fort Hood.

The Tsarnaev brothers exploded bombs at the Boston Marathon that killed 3 and wounded 264 others.

Worldwide, in September, there were 234 terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims, in 27 different countries, resulting in 2931 deaths, and 4539 injured. The majority of the victims were other Muslims. Source: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

I did not intend to make generalizations about Islam vs that of Christianity.
I do however suggest that one takes a look at the statistics (who are conducting these sorts of attacks? How many attacks are done by Muslism against Christians? How many are done by Christians against Muslims? How many are done by Muslims against other Muslims using Islam as a justification) and draw your own conclusions from that.

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Te Religion of Islam teaches hate murder and death to all non believers. Pretending otherwise is stupid.


Are there passages in Islam which tell Muslims to believe that?

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ORIGINAL: parusski

Political correctness is an evil all it's own.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Te Religion of Islam teaches hate murder and death to all non believers. Pretending otherwise is stupid.


Are there passages in Islam which tell Muslims to believe that?

I'm afraid there are things rather like it. There is one verse in the Qu'ran which declares enmity for all who do not follow the faith, and another which states that followers of Muhammad are "merciful to one another, but harsh to unbelievers."

But perhaps the most important doctrine is the three-part choice: all unbelievers are supposed to eventually covert to Islam, or accept "dhimmitude", second-class citizenship including, but not limited to payment, of the Jizya. If both these are refused, the Muslims are instructed to "seek Allah's help and fight them". Note the Qu'ran specifies this for polytheists, but the hard-line Islamic doctrinaires have expanded this to cover virtually all non-Muslims.

A final thought: the Qu'ran, like the Bible, has some contradictory passages. (e.g., the fruit of the vine is praised in one verse, but alcohol is banned in another.) To resolve this, the "Doctrine of Abrogation" has been formulated, which states that the verses revealed later override the ones revealed earlier. (the timeline is not easy to know, because the Qu'ran is ordered by the size of the chapters, largest to smallest, rather than chronologically.) Unfortunately, the later verses tend to be the more aggressive ones, following the arc of Muhammad's career from preacher to warlord.

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

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ORIGINAL: AbwehrX

Are political topics of this nature allowed now?

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

This goes to far.

I am sad to say that I think this thread should be locked!

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ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

This goes to far.

I am sad to say that I think this thread should be locked!

I don't know. I haven't seen Twotribes post again. Maybe he's given up the nonsense and figured out on his own why prejudice is a bad thing and why we should punish individuals who are responsible for crimes and not whole groups. Hopefully he's learned something from this thread.

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

This goes to far.

I am sad to say that I think this thread should be locked!

I don't know. I haven't seen Twotribes post again. Maybe he's given up the nonsense and figured out on his own why prejudice is a bad thing and why we should punish individuals who are responsible for crimes and not whole groups. Hopefully he's learned something from this thread.

It would take an extraordinary event for a bigot to abandon bigotry. And even then, that rarely happens.

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So now a person that recognizes evil and danger for what it is is a bigot ehh? MILLIONS of Muslims support terrorism, Millions more quietly allow it to continue. Thousands arm themselves and kill in Allah's name. Care to provide us with an explanation for that behavior? Couldn't possibly be because the Holy Koran TEACHES murder mayhem and death to unbelievers right?

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ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

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So now a person that recognizes evil and danger for what it is is a bigot ehh? MILLIONS of Muslims support terrorism, Millions more quietly allow it to continue. Thousands arm themselves and kill in Allah's name. Care to provide us with an explanation for that behavior? Couldn't possibly be because the Holy Koran TEACHES murder mayhem and death to unbelievers right?

You assume that the people who are arming themselves and engaging in murder and violence would not do so absent of Islam, or even just absent of Islam's more radical teachings.

The grievances that these people have exist in spite of religion, not because of it. It's not as if Buddhism or Taoism or Atheism or Christianity is any sort of balm against the socioeconomic pressure endured by a region that's been as exploited as the Middle East.

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Willful ignorance is stupid. Islam TEACHES that only Islam is allowed as Government and religion. It teaches that killing unbelievers is to be done, it teaches that lying to unbelievers is acceptable. It's holy book teaches war and murder of unbelievers and the end result is the death or conversion of all non Muslims. Currently thgere are two schools of thought on how that will come to pass. One is to out breed us and win by assimilating our cultures through immigration and conversion by numbers, The other is that holy war must be waged to destroy all unbelievers.

Failure to understand your enemies and the threats they pose is a fatal flaw and weakness.

This goes to far.

I am sad to say that I think this thread should be locked!

I don't know. I haven't seen Twotribes post again. Maybe he's given up the nonsense and figured out on his own why prejudice is a bad thing and why we should punish individuals who are responsible for crimes and not whole groups. Hopefully he's learned something from this thread.

It would take an extraordinary event for a bigot to abandon bigotry. And even then, that rarely happens.

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So explain why European Muslims born raised taught and trained in places like France and Britain and of course western Muslims like Canada join execute and do terrorism? Why if they have not been "oppressed" do they do it?

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ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

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So explain why European Muslims born raised taught and trained in places like France and Britain and of course western Muslims like Canada join execute and do terrorism? Why if they have not been "oppressed" do they do it?

There are in fact people who are willing to fight for causes that would not otherwise directly affect them.

Feel free to drop by and chat about whatever is on your mind.