RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/1/2014 12:58:11 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

Crippling the fleet ends the game.

Not sure that is true. It makes the game harder, but Obvert is doing okay after losing a chunk of the KB on the night of Dec 7/8.

(in reply to Mike McCreery)

Post #: 31

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/3/2014 5:18:12 AM

Cribtop

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Turn 2 status report:

COMPLETE!

The turn is away to John. Now the real war begins. I'm traveling to Colorado for work today and Monday, back in Texas on Tuesday.

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Post #: 32

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/3/2014 5:41:56 AM

apbarog

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Subscribed and will only be reading your side of things. From reading John's AARs over the years, if you can weather the early storm, you'll be ok. As you know, John hits hard early and often. His aggressiveness has led to some big wins, like taking all of Australia, but his opponents facilitated these victories. Hit back when you can early but always look for the trap. Good luck!

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Post #: 33

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/3/2014 10:34:56 AM

HansBolter

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Cribtop,

I wanted to add another bit of advice for playing the Allied side.

I am not sure if other players do the same thing, but I like to give absolute priority to the AVG for the first upgrades to P40Es.

They are the best pilots in the Allied inventory at start and it makes sense to give them better planes right away.

Also, their starting airframes, the H81A3, will go into the Chinese pool when the AVG upgrades so the sooner you upgrade the less H81A3 will be lost to attrition through aggressive use by the AVG and the more available for fleshing out a couple of Chinese squadrons with some decent planes.

In addition, there are two squadrons of P38Es restricted to CONUS. One has 20 airframes and another 12. Downgrading these to P26s or P35s frees up very valuable airframes that are severely limited in numbers. It requires some creative upgrading of other squadrons to get enough airframes of the other types, or it can be done with P39s.

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Post #: 34

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/3/2014 1:53:25 PM

Cribtop

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Thanks for the tip! I knew about the P-38s but didn't realize that the H81's went into the Chinese pools.

One question - is there a safe way to get the AVG to the DEI? I plan to pair them with the Banshees looking for opportunities and then move them to Oz to form the core of the USAAF there.

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Post #: 35

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/3/2014 2:24:01 PM

HansBolter

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Someone else will need to advise on that.

Playing the AI I have never had the need to transfer them out of Burma/China.

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Post #: 36

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/3/2014 6:17:16 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Thanks for the tip! I knew about the P-38s but didn't realize that the H81's went into the Chinese pools.

One question - is there a safe way to get the AVG to the DEI? I plan to pair them with the Banshees looking for opportunities and then move them to Oz to form the core of the USAAF there.

The first problem is political points. In stock I think one AVG squadron is unrestricted but two are restricted. They are costly to buy out.
Second problem is distance between bases. Even if you started them out before he cuts Malaya in half, there are few bases with air support and he could cut the rail link before you get to Singapore.
Putting them on a ship in Air Transport mode is likely safest, but not immune from IJN subs or surface raiders, or raid by mini-KB.

It would probably be more efficient to transfer out the pilots to the General Reserve and move them to new aircraft sent to Oz. After all, it's the skilled pilots you want, no?

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Post #: 37

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/3/2014 6:58:51 PM

Lecivius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Turn 2 status report:

COMPLETE!

The turn is away to John. Now the real war begins. I'm traveling to Colorado for work today and Monday, back in Texas on Tuesday.

Don't forget to wave! Maybe You & John & a few others can get together & reinact the bombing of PH. Well, getting bombed, anyways

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Post #: 38

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/3/2014 8:17:03 PM

ny59giants

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quote:

One question - is there a safe way to get the AVG to the DEI? I plan to pair them with the Banshees looking for opportunities and then move them to Oz to form the core of the USAAF there.

Early usage of PP - Within BTS, you can use PPs to buy out the four fighter groups in Luzon and send them to China, SRA, and/or Oz (they withdrawn in mid-42, but IMO you need them). They will probably need new leaders and replacement aircraft. In mid-Jan you get 5 P-40E groups in Oz attached to ABDA that are there for only 60 days. They also need more airframes and I usually spend PP to improve leaders (helps train up pilots). The good things about these groups is BOTH pilots and airframes go into pool when you disband them.

You have a P-40 group at Darwin in this mod to use at start. When it comes to the A-24s, they need better leaders and with their NavB skill being so bad, they can only hit merchants. In our game, mine have been steadily training for almost two months and need more, but they are better.

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Post #: 39

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/5/2014 1:45:04 AM

Cribtop

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Very short Dec 8th update.

No second day at Pearl, which is a relief because despite all the torp hits the damage is even less than I thought once I started playing with repair times.

Much of the Thundering Herd meets a sad end but the warships all get away scot free. A decent number of TH ships survive and will continue to flee in panic.

I sent the two HK DDs to Samah on day 1 and caught nothing. Undaunted, they kamikazied right into Cam Ran Bay harbor. Before they got there they encounter two huge, unescorted TFs moving from Samah to CRB. The two plucky DDs shoot until they run out of ammo and heavily damage four loaded transports with troop losses. Not sure any of the ships sank as the DDs ran out of ammo fast and all their torps missed. Still, a nice little sting. The brave ships are in deep sh#t now, but will try to run full speed for Singers.

Elsewhere in the DEI, we set up more rational SCTFs and move into hopeful ambush positions. Ready to retreat if needed, of course.

No hint this early where John is going but we do get SigInt of an IJN DD heading for Lae. We have a little surprise getting ready if the enemy comes light.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/5/2014 2:47:29 AM

zuluhour

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Will be reading from my I-Phone at work. Time to swap out that banner.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/5/2014 5:11:15 PM

pontiouspilot

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Collect many AKs and APs from DEI and Indian Ocean area and get them to Aden and Capetown. You will need them to load reinforcements and supplies. When you get them to Capetown send at least 2/3 to East-coast USA. You start with little there and it is easier to resupply Indian Ocean theatre out of eastern USA notwithstanding the distances involved. Collect many tankers and get them to Abadan ASAP. If able, load up as much fuel outa DEI as possible and remove it somewhere as you exit.

If you want to throw a monkey wrench at an early landing in or near Oz I find the 2-3 non-static Aussie coastal artillery units to be extremely effective. I have held off invasions at Pt moresby with 1 such unit and have severely crippled another at Rabaul. It does however cost some Pol pts.

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Post #: 42

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/5/2014 5:48:25 PM

Q-Ball

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You can get the AVG to DEI via Victoria Point/Tavoy/Alor Star, but this is dependent on starting immediately on Dec 9th at latest. But I've done it.

I like doing it, at least for 1 group, as they are a nasty surprise. You can also move them to Australia eventually, where there is little else available for fighter support in early 1942, so there's that.

Swapping out P-40Es to put the older planes into Chinese pool is a good idea, provided you have the supply available later for the CHinese airforce, which is debateable. If you evac a couple units to India, you do solve that problem.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/5/2014 8:46:17 PM

Cribtop

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Thanks, all. Currently, everything in the DEI is loading fuel and will run away. Most will indeed go to Cape Town/Aden as suggested.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/6/2014 4:20:36 AM

Cribtop

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Well, more of the Thundering Herd die on the 8th as does CL Marblehead and 2 escorting 4 stacker DDs at Balikpapan. The latter ships were bait for a trap, we shall see if John sticks around or tries to invade. We are sending in the Asiatic fleet CLs and CAs with DD support tonight. 30% chance we catch something but if we hit pay dirt it should be fun.

The brave Hong Kong DDs make Singers alive! Next mission: Kamikaze against the anticipated Mersing landing.

We have ordered an Op against a group of cruisers that invaded Lae on the 8th by FT TF. If they stick around it could be fun.

Heard unexplained sinking sounds during the turn. We must've sunk a few of those Samah to CRB transports, which is nice.

Coming soon: Screenshots by AO and some idea of THE PLAN. After the first few days of chaos I intend to settle down into a weekly summary of key events in each AO.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 11/6/2014 5:31:10 AM >

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/6/2014 5:44:14 AM

durnedwolf

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why not wait two turns after they start dropping troops and then go after them as they leave. Also, if you have any aircraft that can do night time naval search it should help your DD to home in on the targets.

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The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer

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Post #: 46

RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/7/2014 7:12:18 PM

Cribtop

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A few musings on early Allied naval tactics. Like many players, I am seeking to use expendable surface forces in AOs we all know will fall to turn back poorly guarded invasion forces (so far John hasn't given me anything much to get hold of in this regard). Looking at things from both JFB and AFB eyes, I begin to wonder about the efficacy of this approach. In all my Japanese games, one or two smallish invasions got hit by SCTFs or bombers and eviscerated, leading to shame and loss of face. However, in the end as Japan I loaded up again, provided more force protection, and really suffered neither strategic dislocation nor material delay. This all leads to the question of whether or not these raids really provide any benefit to the Allied side other than something to do and morale improvement. Hmm.

That said, we are currently engaged in Operation Groundhog. At undisclosed islands in the Solomon Sea and the DEI, small dot bases that are unlikely to be reconned by fast-moving John now host disbanded SCTFs. Intention is for the Japanese to move on a nearby target thinking the coast is clear only to pop up (like a Groundhog) and run in for unexpected mayhem.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/7/2014 8:30:15 PM

zuluhour

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I assume you have sent engineers to the eastern south Pacific to set up a relay station for fuel to Australia and New Zealand. The short legged small tankers can make the round trip without refueling. I send them out singly from San Diego on a daily basis and use the big tankers to make the final leg. A level 5 port has proved more than adequate for the job with 100 naval support, one BF which can also support a little ASW as well. The computer direct route seems to work fine for me. I am curious to see how the ambushes play out. In the same vane I like to hide one or two sea plane bases in CenPac the same way to give early warning on my "deep" sea lanes to Australia.

NorPac: Not sure what John will do or when, but I hate Dutch Harbor and move that base to Umnak next door as quickly as I can. I risk the engineers alone to do the dirty work first before garrisoning. If he ignores it long enough it can prove to be a nice airbase.

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 11/7/2014 9:37:30 PM >

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/7/2014 8:47:07 PM

HansBolter

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I personally don't see a need for a relay station, although I use Pago Pago as one of sorts for fuel headed to Suva or Noumea.

Even the 8k leg tankers can make one way trips from LA to Auckland. The 12k leg ones make it even easier. I send one third with orders to unload at Auckland and two thirds with orders to not unload.
At Auckland they pick up escorts to ship the two thirds to Sydney.

Using PP for distribution to SoPAC and Auckland for distribution to SWPAC helps me keep them straight and separated.

It also pays to set up tankers and/or xAKLs shipping fuel from the East Coast to Balboa and to Capetown.
Balboa can be a relief from shipping through concentrated sub fields that may cluster around LA and Capetown is vital to getting fuel to SW OZ.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/7/2014 8:52:04 PM

Cribtop

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I am definitely planning the tanker and supply route but am waiting a bit to see whether John goes for the Line Islands and Christmas Island (Pacific) first. In far SOPAC, I am building a defended base at Pago Pago with a rear area base at Tahiti. The level of commitment to these bases will again vary based on how far and fast John moves in their direction.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/7/2014 9:03:12 PM

zuluhour

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I agree Hans on the straight trip later, but there is not enough fuel left to reroute them (I move the small ones singly until '44) when a naval air "danger" presents itself, outside of disbanding them somewhere. Some thoughts on SWPac. HO: build Alice Springs now to AF9. Get some supply into Terapo (the PM garrison always retreats that way for me) so they can build forts and recover some. Ref Hans, I don't escort the little guys either so I need to have one day of flank in reserve. I also like to build up Cloncurry? as well for stationing air transports should the need arise to get supply south to Katherine or Daly Waters. DBs and a�CL SAG cover Port Aurther��as well to serve as EW for Oz�if Perth goes early. For me the Allied strategy early, and I have failed miserably at it in my current game, is looking ahead a month after the "what if" happens.

**I should note that another reason I use the relay approach is to refuel every convoy (now I mean LCUs, AC/TFs, SCTF, ) there so they enter the theater fully ready to use flank if necessary.

*** The Alice Springs thing, You can hit the IJA in the open by 4E and Darwin and any land approach from Perth using the rail trail. Provides huge moral boost. I see no reason to garrison Darwin either after the herd passes through. No need to make a sacrifice to the emperor for no gain. I combine the Aussie base units and begin construction at Daly or Katherine so my escorts can fly LRCAP over targets should the need arise. This only works with PDU on as you will need the P38 to really make it work well. This game I have played the air war well IMO. I am at 2:1 a2a and climbing. The ground on the other hand....I hope you are playing with stacking.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 11/7/2014 10:19:08 PM >

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/7/2014 9:48:41 PM

Cribtop

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Good thoughts. I've been on the receiving end of IJA tanks bombed by 4Es in open desert - not fun. Nice as Allies to be able to contemplate building to level 9. Looking forward to the SeaBees!

We are playing with stacking.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/8/2014 4:29:27 PM

Mike Solli

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Speaking from the experience of being on the receiving end, sacrifice assets where it really matters to the Japanese player. Ted opted to oppose me at Pt. Moresby, a base I really needed. The end result was my not taking Pt. Moresby and losing the Hiryu. Using assets is good, for the right reason.

The same can be said for Japan too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

A few musings on early Allied naval tactics. Like many players, I am seeking to use expendable surface forces in AOs we all know will fall to turn back poorly guarded invasion forces (so far John hasn't given me anything much to get hold of in this regard). Looking at things from both JFB and AFB eyes, I begin to wonder about the efficacy of this approach. In all my Japanese games, one or two smallish invasions got hit by SCTFs or bombers and eviscerated, leading to shame and loss of face. However, in the end as Japan I loaded up again, provided more force protection, and really suffered neither strategic dislocation nor material delay. This all leads to the question of whether or not these raids really provide any benefit to the Allied side other than something to do and morale improvement. Hmm.

That said, we are currently engaged in Operation Groundhog. At undisclosed islands in the Solomon Sea and the DEI, small dot bases that are unlikely to be reconned by fast-moving John now host disbanded SCTFs. Intention is for the Japanese to move on a nearby target thinking the coast is clear only to pop up (like a Groundhog) and run in for unexpected mayhem.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/9/2014 2:49:41 AM

Cribtop

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Good thoughts. On the latest turn, John invaded Palembang by FT TF. I had the UK CLs and Force Z disbanded in ports nearby but the use of FT TFs negated my intention to hit him at a base he really needs. I am thinking of where else to oppose him.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/10/2014 3:45:41 AM

Cribtop

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OK, I owe you screenies and the first true weekly update, but for the moment:

ALERT!

Cats provide a good report on a 6 ship enemy TF, mostly claimed to be APDs. So what, you say? The Cats are flying from Pearl. The TF is already past Johnson and Palmyra by a good bit and is headed East. He is SW of the Big Island.

Is John actually trying for Hawaii? Well, well. He could just be trying to sneak up before heading to the Line Islands from the back side, but really there isn't anything the direction this TF is heading except for Hawaii. Buckle up, kids, this might get rough!

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/10/2014 4:11:41 AM

apbarog

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That is very interesting. A small quick landing near Hilo is certainly possible, but I don't see that accomplishing anything other than being a distraction. Unless a big invasion is on the way, and you just don't see it yet. I think it is more likely a deep raiding task force. One week into the war, everyone knows that by now stuff is leaving the West Coast. If there was a time to be able to almost predict where some outgoing task forces could be, now is that time. Use extreme caution. If he's raiding, fuel has to be an issue for him. Time is on your side.

On the other hand, if he's going for Hawaii, time is not on your side. At least to be able to reinforce first.

Definitely watching this one.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/10/2014 4:33:48 AM

Cribtop

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Agreed. It seems nuts to try for Hawaii, but this sighting means there is a small chance he is. Every Cat in Pearl is up tomorrow on the lookout. One thing that argues against Hawaii IMHO is the certain sighting of Hiryu/Soryu in the DEI. If he's coming for Hawaii, he has to bring the kitchen sink. Plus, there aren't that many available divisions unless he diverts a lot from Singapore. Still, certainly something to watch and frankly a defense of Hawaii is not a task I relish in my first Allied game.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/10/2014 6:08:47 AM

BBfanboy

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Search skills are notoriously poor in the first months of the war. Many times - indeed most often - the sighting of six ships is a pod of dolphins or at most, a single sub. For some reason six is a number that often comes up in the phoney report. The class of ship seems to be randomized a bit.

You can't ignore the report, so continue your searches - but don't throw the entire kitchen sink out that direction just yet, or begin flying all the troops at PH to Hilo.

PS - B-17s and Liberators can be pressed into Nav. Search duty too, but their skills are even worse than the Cat squadrons.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 11/10/2014 7:08:58 AM >

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/10/2014 11:03:32 PM

zuluhour

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perhaps cluster of I-boats heading to the west coast....

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/10/2014 11:49:34 PM

ny59giants

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John did invade Hawaii once. It became a very expensive operation as Allies were able to send out BB TFs to hit Hilo and be back at Pearl before lunch. Don't think its where he is going, but he does try to send out bait for his CVs to pounce on if you allow.

CVs - Where are yours now and where are they headed?? You have three plus the hybrids. Those 2 American BCs are very nasty ships. Any idea on where you will use them?? You'll see mine plus the 2 French BCs in mid-42. Them vs your beloved Kongos is a match I want!!

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