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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/11/2014 2:16:07 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Good question.

The BCs, the USN CAs that start in SOPAC and the 4 CAVs are RVing at Auckland. They will form the "Southern Cross" force with a BC TF, a CA TF and the CAVs escorted by a few CLs and DDs. Initial intention is to linger nearish to Noumea. If John is coming hard for SOPAC I want to be ready to mess with anything poorly escorted. I know where his CVs are presently.

The Ent and Lex are bookin' it for San Diego to join with Sara and to perform surgery on air groups (add Marine fighters, remove Devastators).

PS - I tend to concur that John isn't coming for Hawaii and I do remember reading about that game. It is also quite possible that the ships sighted yesterday are bait as CarDiv 1 and 5 that hit Pearl sniffed around for another bite recently in the same area. Given the TF's location I have to consider the Hawaii possibility, of course. Don't think it's a good choice for Japan but maybe John is bored with Oz.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 11/11/2014 3:16:31 AM >

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/11/2014 11:40:40 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Next turn, click on LA to check on your airframe production. I often see it stopped when you upgrade to a newer Beta or have the mod upgraded. If it has stopped, hit the "J" key to bring up production menu. Then click off everything and then click on Air and R&D to go through each.

Southern Cross - Once the hybrids get there, go through each air group and check leader stats. Most will need replacing asap. This is important to get them to train up quicker.

American CVs - You can add the 18 Marine fighter groups to each CV and keep the Devastators. If you get into a CV knife fight (4 hexes) they are helpful.

Air groups - As Allies, priority goes to these first for leader replacements, IMO. CV based, A-24 Banshee, P-40s in Luzon (I bought these groups out in our game and they are off training as they stay until July 1st), training groups in USA (x7), and then steadily the game long fighter and bombers (mainly 4e bombers).

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Post #: 62
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/11/2014 10:55:02 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		December 7 – 14, 1941

The war gets going with a few bangs.

NOPAC

Not much happening up here. John sent the AMCs that start in the Gulf of Alaska to raid near Canada, where they encountered a group of 3 PCs I had heading for San Francisco. The result was an object lesson in the fact that some Allied PCs aren’t the mini-DDs that the IJN PCs are – 2 PCs sunk, 1 damaged. The AMCs then split up and one of them intercepted a small supply convoy heading for Dutch Harbor but both TFs broke off.

We sent 3 DDs up here to deal with the AMC threat. Soon two CLs and a few more DDs will join them to form a NOPAC cruiser squadron.

No invasions yet but radio traffic indicates they are probably inbound.

CENTPAC

John’s CVs hit Pearl, then headed west, then came back. They sank an AP (annoying) fleeing Johnston for Pearl and now have swung east of the Big Island. Probably a raid but we can’t discount a Hawaii invasion.

SOPAC

We are assembling the bastion at Sydney and Melbourne. The Philippines P-40s and two B-17 groups are bought out and are fleeing by an odd route (Cebu-Jesselton-Balikpapan-Kendari-Darwin) to Oz. Together with the P-40s and Army dive bombers that start at Darwin these forces will serve to provide air defense to the Australian bastion.

We form the Southern Cross Force at Auckland. 1 TF with the four CAVs (cruiser-light carrier hybrids with 6 inch guns and small fighter and DB squadrons), 1 TF contains the two nasty new battlecruisers that are part of the BTS OOB, and 1 TF contains the USN CAs that start down here. The Aussie CAs will join in time. This force will hang by Noumea and look for mischief making opportunities.

The mini-bastion down here is Pago Pago, with Tahiti serving as a logistics base. How big these bases grow depends on how much of an effort John makes in SOPAC. If he comes in strength we will decline battle. If not, the Marines go to Pago Pago on QE and other conveyances and we prepare for counter-offensives late in ’42.

SWPAC

John has seized Lae, Manus and Madang, mostly by FT TF.

The Oz-Kiwi CLs and a few DDs are hiding out disbanded at Kiriwina Island, awaiting prey.

ABDA

John has moved rapidly here, again primarily using FT TFs to land at and seize Miri, Kuching, Sinkawang, and Palembang. He landed at Kuantan and then Mersing but will only trap two units outside Singers. The price for this was leaving the two Aussie brigades to delay at Mersing, meaning that they have now been retreated from that base and lost some effectiveness. The Malaya air force fought its way through enemy fighters at great cost to hit several transports at Mersing and now the planes have evacuated Singapore to fight another day.

Operation Groundhog claimed its first success on the 14th in a sharp night action. We sent CLs Durban, Dragon and Danae plus 3 DDs into Sinkawang harbor with very satisfactory results. Cribtop Intel noted that the Sinkawang invasion brought an entire Division (4th, I think) in traditional transports. We thus calculated that it would take several days to load the unit before escaping or moving on to the next target. Also of note, the separate covering surface TFs had withdrawn, leaving a BB (Mutsu) plus many DDs as direct escorts, but we estimated they would perform badly in the same TF as the slow transports.

Events turned out as well as possible, with radar detection by the UK ships at 11,000 yards and total surprise, allowing attacks against an anchored enemy for several rounds. We sank several transports full of troops and a DMS and damaged other transports and two DDs. CL Durban in particular fought like a wild animal, switching targets between enemy DDs and going toe to toe with Mutsu but always returning her guns to the vulnerable transports when possible. The Hong Kong DDs also covered themselves in glory, outdueling several IJN DDs despite being outgunned. CL Dragon ate a Long Lance toward the end of the fight and that unfortunately meant an IJN sub finished her as she fled.

5200 IJ ground losses and just over 200 squads reported destroyed. That is an IJA division hors de combat for a month or so. A nice result.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Singkawang at 56,88, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 1
DD Murakumo
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
DD Asagiri, Shell hits 5, heavy fires
DD Sagiri, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yugiri
DMS Shimushu
DMS W-4, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
xAK Zenyo Maru
xAK Johore Maru
xAK Fushimi Maru
xAK Toho Maru
xAK Kaiko Maru
xAK Eihuku Maru
xAK Mikasa Maru, Shell hits 2
xAK Aso Maru
xAK Zyunyo Maru
xAK Ryoyo Maru, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Daigen Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire
xAK Ryuyo Maru, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Meiu Maru
xAK Teisen Maru, Shell hits 28, and is sunk
xAK Iwaki Maru, Shell hits 6, on fire
xAK Josho Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Meisho Maru
xAP Miike Maru, Shell hits 2

Allied Ships
CL Danae
CL Dragon, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Durban, Shell hits 7, on fire
DD Vendetta, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Scout
DD Thanet

Japanese ground losses:
5200 casualties reported
Squads: 59 destroyed, 90 disabled
Non Combat: 100 destroyed, 51 disabled
Engineers: 21 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 29 (21 destroyed, 8 disabled)

We can’t let the victory at Sinkawang go to our heads, however. The reality is that John is advancing rapidly and should secure Singers in late December or early January. He will then reduce Java to siege and be ready for Phase II, wherever that may be.

Force Z and the Dutch cruisers are disbanded in secret locations near the Makassar Strait and Kendari, hoping to spring their own Operation Groundhog attacks as John shifts focus east. The enemy CVLs are in the Gulf of Siam closing the Malacca Straits (a Dutch sub missed Ryujo on the 14th). Hiryu/Soryu are either with them or watching the South China Sea moves in Borneo.

Burma

Elaborate plans to run like hell are in motion.

India

The Karachi/Bombay bastion is under construction. The AVG and the Burma/Malaya Hurricanes are either already on trains for Karachi or soon will be. It is very hard even to maintain garrison levels in India, which is really stripped of troops at game start. What a mess.

China

John brought two divisions to the party and two shock attacks took Hong Kong. Other than that China is still in the one month truce. This will allow the KMT army to move into positions and get organized before the fighting begins. The basic plan here is to implement a strategy Alfred discussed in several AARs, incorporating blocking positions in key hexes backed up by mobile forces and with a few units operating behind the lines as guerillas. Should be interesting.



< Message edited by Cribtop -- 11/12/2014 12:53:40 AM >

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Post #: 63
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/11/2014 11:25:38 PM   
apbarog


Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline 		That's an excellent result at Singkawang, Cribtop. Those units that got severely hurt won't be doing anything else offensively for awhile. That is a big Allied win, as good as it gets this early in the war. Congrats.

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 64
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/11/2014 11:55:08 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Thanks. I confess I did a little dance.

This TF was hiding disbanded in Muntok and thus John couldn't see it with nav search and as we hoped he didn't recon all the little bases in the area. This sort of "pop up" attack is the premise behind Operation Groundhog.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 11/12/2014 12:57:29 AM >

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Post #: 65
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/12/2014 9:51:02 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Thanks. I confess I did a little dance.

This TF was hiding disbanded in Muntok and thus John couldn't see it with nav search and as we hoped he didn't recon all the little bases in the area. This sort of "pop up" attack is the premise behind Operation Groundhog.


Great result. Very surprised by his TF composition. For such an accomplished naval tactician he put a lot of good ships in a bad position in that TF, and in fact shouldn't have been there at all with such a large collection of slow transports at this point until the seas and air were completely under control.

Look forward to more!

< Message edited by obvert -- 11/12/2014 10:51:52 AM >

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 66
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/12/2014 1:28:02 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

December 7 – 14, 1941...


... China

John brought two divisions to the party and two shock attacks took Hong Kong. Other than that China is still in the one month truce. This will allow the KMT army to move into positions and get organized before the fighting begins. The basic plan here is to implement a strategy Alfred discussed in several AARs, incorporating blocking positions in key hexes backed up by mobile forces and with a few units operating behind the lines as guerillas. Should be interesting.



Re China, which few Allied players handle well (although Obvert is currently showing how China can be handled) and then blame the game rather than looking at their own play.

1. The commonly deployed MLR concept is a certain recipe for failure. It spreads out Chinese units to every neighbouring hex which is the complete opposite to what Japan does. Every decent Japanese player develops a schwerpunkt which concentrates his forces against dispersed Chinese forces. Most hexes in the MLR have only Chinese units, noticeable being the absence of any Japanese units.

2. Outflanking. Another commonly misplaced Allied concern. The real world problems of outflanking just do not exist in this abstracted game. Supply always gets through to outflanked units. Only completely surrounded units are cut off from supply.

3. IRL units totally out of supply are totally useless. This is not the case in this abstracted game. Out of supply units, which are not in close contact with the enemy, are almost as good as units with full supply in accomplishing many tasks in this game. The need for water daily just does not exist in the game.

4. Unlike every other theatre and nationality , totally destroyed Chinese divisions respawn. Combined with the 12:6 VP ratio, provided a real strategic/operational benefit is gained, no Allied player should be concerned about having Chinese troops cut off and destroyed.

5. In China, the Allied player needs to both concentrate and disperse his units. All divisions must be concentrated with their Group Army HQ = corps. Mass is required to force the enemy to deploy sizeable forces to achieve success in battle. In turn the consolidated corps must be dispersed to

(a) threaten Japanese LOC
(b) overwatch enemy cities to force enemy garrisoning of their own cities to protect industry
(c) force the enemy "off road" which slows down their manoeuvre speed

6. Ultimately China is all about time. Japanese assets deployed to China are not available for use elsewhere. This provides Allied opportunities elsewhere. The opportunity cost for Japan can be huge.

7. A passive defence of China will not succeed. What is required is an active defence, based not on seeking combat but by manoeuvre which threatens enemy positions which have been weakened by the desire to create an overwhelming schwerpunkt. The firepower of the Japanese puppet forces is weak. those units are even more fragile than most Chinese divisions.

Bearing in mind the above, these are starting points for blocking and manoeuvring forces.

(A) Immediately evacuate (includes air force) everything north of Lanchow except for minimal garrison forces at Urumchi/Hami/Kinchuan. The latter two are blocking positions and will survive on Urumchi generated supplies.

(B) Immediately withdraw from Yenan except for the required garrison. If the garrison is provided by the Base Force, you will be able to fly recon missions from Yenan. Otherwise that city is simply a death trap which need not even be captured by Japan.

(C) To slow down any Japanese move on the northern oilfields, the 3 key blocking positions are:

93,34
92,34 (Paotow)
92,38

All three hexes are mountain. The first two protect the eastern approach to Lanchow and the southern approach to Hami. The last cuts the railway and overwatches the enemy bases of Taiyuan/Chengting/Tatung, the latter being an important resources generator.

(D) The blocking positions on the eastern approach to Sian are:

90,40
90,41
88,41
87,41
88,42 (Tsiatso)

These positions must not be simply given away as almost every Allied player does when they immediately start an unforced retreat back towards Sian. These positions disrupt the enemy LOC and therefore weakens any Sian schwerpunkt which bypasses them. Do not overlook the auto generated supply at Tsiatso.

The absolute key Sian blocking position is 88,42. It is the junction of the eastern approach from Loyang and the southern approach from Nanyang. It is the closest position to the Allied supply depot at Sian and conversely the furthest away from the enemy supply depots. It does not make sense, as Allied players reqularly do, to defend in multiple wooded + rough hexes to cover both potential enemy axes of advance and close to the enemy supply depots.

Sian itself needs to retain its good garrison to meet any river crossings from the east. If the enemy bypasses all the blocking positions and elects to undertake the river crossing, not only will it be weakened from it's less than optimal LOC but it becomes very vulnerable to a single LCU being detached from the blocking position at 88,42 to come in from behind and trap the enemy.

(E) Consolidate the Lusu corps around and continue to threaten Kweiteh. Another valuable auto generated Chinese supply source which happens to lay right in the middle of a key enemy railway. Doing so also helps the defenders of Loyang and Chengchow.

(F) The valuable industrial region of Changsha/Siangton/Shaoyong/Hengyang/Changteh is defended by garrisons in the cities themselves, not units outside the cities. In particular, Changsha is not to be abandoned under any circumstances. The units which start outside of Changsha are to immediately be brought back into Changsha to build forts. The auto generated supply combined with the terrain and one of the most powerful at start Chinese consolidated corps means Japan can be bled white here. Destroyed Chinese units at Changsha will get to Chungking before their exhausted opponents do. Plus by maximising the engineers, a wrecked industrial price might be all that the enemy gains ultimately.

(G) For the southern region, the key blocking positions are Pingsiang, Pucheng and 87,56. All lie on the best enemy LOC. If captured by the enemy aim to get new units to recapture them as it is unlikely the enemy will stop to safeguard these conquests.

(H) Two key ports to be retained are Kwangchown and Wenchow. Consolidate forces in their vicinity. These ports can be resupplied by sub (Wenchow is itself a significant supply centre) and provide excellent "naval search eyes" on enemy convoys to assist the Dutch and S class subs.

(I) The blocking positions for Chungking are:

71,48 (also key for Kunming)

81,40 (most of the eastern approach is covered by holding Sian)

76,46
75,46
77,47
75,48
74,48

these cover the southern approach.


By consolidating corps and positioning them in blocking positions it means that it is possible to detach units to close the door after being bypassed. Plus by not maintaining a linear MLR, mobile consolidated corps to threaten weakly garrisoned enemy rear bases can be created.

Alfred

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 67
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/12/2014 4:57:19 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Obvert - I was surprised as well that John landed a whole division (or 90% of one anyway) to take Sinkawang. He did the same at Kuching but it was too far from my ships to intervene there. He probably had some plan for the 4th and 21st Divisions (21st was at Kuching) that involved taking those bases as a convenience and then sailing to the real target (Java?). I'm hoping I threw a spanner in that works. Also, in his e-mail discussing the battle John didn't seem to link the poor performance of his escorts with their presence in the transport TF. That may be a weakness I can exploit elsewhere.

Alfred - Many thanks for the detailed articulation of the strategy. I'm pleased to note that my blocking hex list is pretty similar to yours, so I'm on the right track. I was interested in the discussion about Yenan and Changsha - I hadn't considered them in that manner, although I was probably going to abandon Yenan as soon as a x3 hex on the road to Chengting fell. My concerns about Changsha are the back doors. Defending the Kweilin approach is pretty straight forward, but the clear hex bases behind Changsha and the approaches via Pingsiang and the hexes along the rail line to Kukong that are hard to defend.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 11/12/2014 5:59:32 PM >

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Post #: 68
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/12/2014 9:49:12 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I believe stacking limits will greatly help the Chinese. I held China quite easily for two games, but this latest by Ziggurat, putting upwards of 100 units in a hex unhinged me after a bloody two year struggle. The game prior, with stacking actually gave me a reserve to work with.

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 69
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/13/2014 2:57:31 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Yes, while sometimes stacking can actually hurt the Chinese, if played right on balance I think it helps.

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Post #: 70
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/13/2014 3:57:11 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop


... Alfred - Many thanks for the detailed articulation of the strategy. I'm pleased to note that my blocking hex list is pretty similar to yours, so I'm on the right track. I was interested in the discussion about Yenan and Changsha - I hadn't considered them in that manner, although I was probably going to abandon Yenan as soon as a x3 hex on the road to Chengting fell. My concerns about Changsha are the back doors. Defending the Kweilin approach is pretty straight forward, but the clear hex bases behind Changsha and the approaches via Pingsiang and the hexes along the rail line to Kukong that are hard to defend.


Not convinced your concerns are that high a priority. Yes, in an ideal world one would fully cover them but you don't really have the at start assets in place to accomplish it. Given time yes, but good Japanese players rarely allow that time.

Take the Kukong axis of advance on Changsha. It is your choice whether to concentrate the defence on Kukong itself or alternatively on one of the railway hexes. Personally I would try to hold Kukong for as long as realistically possible although Kukong itself is not to be treated as a festung which Changsha is. The point I would make about this axis is that if Kukong is captured, you do not need to subsequently defend every railway hex. What is recommended is to subsequently slip in, behind the advancing towards Changsha enemy forces, a weak (say one of the single division corps, not a trashed corps per se) consolidated Chinese corps onto a railway hex. That cuts the southern LOC of the advancing enemy and thereby reduces the value of the backdoor enemy capture of Hengyang as quick railway transfer of enemy units is prevented.

The same principle applies to Kweilin with the one difference being that Kweilin is more valuable real estate to retain than Kukong as it also aids the city to its west both in terms of reducing the value of its loss re strategic redeployment/supplies towards Changsha (or longer term towards Chungking) but also provides an overwatch on that city to force its garrisoning.

If one subscribes to the concept that Changsha is a festung (think Breslau 1945) then holding the back door is not critical. Useful to buy time for Changsha itself, and to disperse the enemy focus by forcing the enemy to garrison them from the threat of relieving Chinese forces. The proper role of a festung is not to defeat the enemy investing forces but to pin them until the "cavalry" comes over the hill to close the trap door on the besiegers and destroy them. Unlike real life were festungs can run out of food, water, bullets, the large auto generated supply at Changsha means that will never be the case here. The balancing act is to maintain a strong internal garrison but not to move everything inside the festung. You will be far better off having the at start Changsha consolidated corps plus engineer units inside the festung and nearby, say at Pingsiang (which is a blocking hex) another consolidated corps which can always detach a unit to open a Changsha hexside/rotate units. This also reduces the demand on Changsha supplies.

Alfred

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 71
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/13/2014 11:40:42 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I wish I could have read this two years ago. I just doubt John will give much thought to China.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 72
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/14/2014 4:36:55 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop


... Alfred - Many thanks for the detailed articulation of the strategy. I'm pleased to note that my blocking hex list is pretty similar to yours, so I'm on the right track. I was interested in the discussion about Yenan and Changsha - I hadn't considered them in that manner, although I was probably going to abandon Yenan as soon as a x3 hex on the road to Chengting fell. My concerns about Changsha are the back doors. Defending the Kweilin approach is pretty straight forward, but the clear hex bases behind Changsha and the approaches via Pingsiang and the hexes along the rail line to Kukong that are hard to defend.


Not convinced your concerns are that high a priority. Yes, in an ideal world one would fully cover them but you don't really have the at start assets in place to accomplish it. Given time yes, but good Japanese players rarely allow that time.

Take the Kukong axis of advance on Changsha. It is your choice whether to concentrate the defence on Kukong itself or alternatively on one of the railway hexes. Personally I would try to hold Kukong for as long as realistically possible although Kukong itself is not to be treated as a festung which Changsha is. The point I would make about this axis is that if Kukong is captured, you do not need to subsequently defend every railway hex. What is recommended is to subsequently slip in, behind the advancing towards Changsha enemy forces, a weak (say one of the single division corps, not a trashed corps per se) consolidated Chinese corps onto a railway hex. That cuts the southern LOC of the advancing enemy and thereby reduces the value of the backdoor enemy capture of Hengyang as quick railway transfer of enemy units is prevented.

The same principle applies to Kweilin with the one difference being that Kweilin is more valuable real estate to retain than Kukong as it also aids the city to its west both in terms of reducing the value of its loss re strategic redeployment/supplies towards Changsha (or longer term towards Chungking) but also provides an overwatch on that city to force its garrisoning.

If one subscribes to the concept that Changsha is a festung (think Breslau 1945) then holding the back door is not critical. Useful to buy time for Changsha itself, and to disperse the enemy focus by forcing the enemy to garrison them from the threat of relieving Chinese forces. The proper role of a festung is not to defeat the enemy investing forces but to pin them until the "cavalry" comes over the hill to close the trap door on the besiegers and destroy them. Unlike real life were festungs can run out of food, water, bullets, the large auto generated supply at Changsha means that will never be the case here. The balancing act is to maintain a strong internal garrison but not to move everything inside the festung. You will be far better off having the at start Changsha consolidated corps plus engineer units inside the festung and nearby, say at Pingsiang (which is a blocking hex) another consolidated corps which can always detach a unit to open a Changsha hexside/rotate units. This also reduces the demand on Changsha supplies.

Alfred


Thanks, Alfred. That makes sense and clarifies my thinking about Changsha. OK, I will spend a lot of extra zots this weekend on China and get everyone moving toward their final positions. Still have several weeks before the truce ends.


_____________________________


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 73
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/14/2014 4:51:21 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Interesting situation developing. John had a sub spot CA Houston fleeing the DEI and decided to push Hiryu/Soryu down into the waters north of Port Hedland in an effort to catch them, probably using a full speed move to do so. The cruisers were long gone, but he caught and sank a few merchants that were part of the great DEI Diaspora. In the Makassar Strait, a USN sub missed a shot at an Oiler that appears to a part of a replenishment TF making its way into pretty exposed waters with no air cover, presumably to refuel the IJN CVs.

Interesting factoid: We have a bunch of S boats and Dutch subs trailing the Oilers and there is a small Allied TF called Force Z disbanded at Madjene. Hmmm. Let us see what we can make of this.

_____________________________


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Post #: 74
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/14/2014 9:57:58 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Interesting situation developing. John had a sub spot CA Houston fleeing the DEI and decided to push Hiryu/Soryu down into the waters north of Port Hedland in an effort to catch them, probably using a full speed move to do so. The cruisers were long gone, but he caught and sank a few merchants that were part of the great DEI Diaspora. In the Makassar Strait, a USN sub missed a shot at an Oiler that appears to a part of a replenishment TF making its way into pretty exposed waters with no air cover, presumably to refuel the IJN CVs.

Interesting factoid: We have a bunch of S boats and Dutch subs trailing the Oilers and there is a small Allied TF called Force Z disbanded at Madjene. Hmmm. Let us see what we can make of this.



_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 75
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/20/2014 4:57:35 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Short update before week's end:

Rabaul: John invades, so we sent in 2 ANZAC CLs and 2 DDs, hoping to get at the transports. Instead they run into 4 unescorted IJN CAs on a bombardment run and, well, get crushed. Only 1 CL actually sinks, everything else is damaged and flees. Worth a shot.

Samarinda: Recon spotted the fact that John had chosen to disband a large TF in Samarinda with little fighter cover. 1 lucky Dutch bomber hit later on a port attack and CS Chitose is a bit dinged. Hehe.

Palmyra and Canton: John invades with SNLF units and in both cases takes the sort of bloody nose that can only be rescued via withdrawal or massive escalation. Cribtop HQ orders air re-supply of Palmyra and sub re-supply of Canton. Also, every S-boat in the area (4 total) is converging on Canton to assail any relief effort.

Midway: This base falls easily but not before a USN sub puts a working torpedo into BB Ise. The Intel screen shows her as sunk. FACT!

Carriers: All 3 USN CVs are hiding out, err, performing critical preparatory actions, at San Diego under massive air cover. I am horrified to learn you can't re-size USN CV air group sizes (my dreams of a 50 Wildcat/40 Dauntless Enterprise are for naught).

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 11/20/2014 5:58:19 AM >

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/20/2014 11:12:07 AM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Midway: This base falls easily but not before a USN sub puts a working torpedo into BB Ise. The Intel screen shows her as sunk. FACT!

Carriers: All 3 USN CVs are hiding out, err, performing critical preparatory actions, at San Diego under massive air cover. I am horrified to learn you can't re-size USN CV air group sizes (my dreams of a 50 Wildcat/40 Dauntless Enterprise are for naught).


You do know that any ship, regardless of size, will show up as sunk when hit by a 'working' torpedo.

American CVs - 27 fighter group as of Jan 1st '42; re-sizes to 36 on July 1st '42; will continue to increase in size (mine are at 42 by mid-'44); adding an 18 plane Marine fighter group brings you up to 45 fighters. Then, there are the two 18 plane DB groups of SBDs. So, in early '42 you can have 45 fighters and 32 SBDs = 77. Since you can go to 110% and still operate, your fifth group can remain TBs (15 planes) or go with another 18 group of fighters or SBDs. You will have plenty of 18 plane groups to mix and match with. Your dream is alive if your listen to me.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/20/2014 2:09:37 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Yeah, the smiley face was an attempt to use sarcasm font. Pretty sure Ise will be fine.

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Post #: 78
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/20/2014 5:14:58 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Most BBs need 4 or 5 TT hits to sink. I did sink Yamato and another off Suva in mid-42 with over twenty 1000 lb bomb hits each.

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Post #: 79
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/20/2014 7:29:50 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

Most BBs need 4 or 5 TT hits to sink. I did sink Yamato and another off Suva in mid-42 with over twenty 1000 lb bomb hits each.


OTOH, during the Battle of Surigao Strait, the Fuso was hit by one or two torpedoes and broke in half. And Fuso was a similar ship to Ise.

We can dream, can't we?

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Post #: 80
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/20/2014 8:32:07 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		Japanese refitted BBs, like the Fuso & Kongo's, left a lot to be desired when it came to structural stability and resilience...as evidenced by what it took to sink them during the war.

They cannot really be compared to what it took to take out an equivalent US BB (or British, for that matter).

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/22/2014 10:05:26 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Week of 14 – 21 December, 1941

NOPAC

CL Anchorage, CL Helena and 4 DDs are headed to Dutch Harbor. Intention is to sink stuff when John shows up in the Aleutians. He’s not invaded anything up here yet, which is a bit of a change from his last games. He likes to take Umnak Island, which is a good airfield. Since he’s delaying, we are considering plopping a regiment and some support on Umnak as it would be a nice foundation for future offensive moves. Hard part is finding a spare regiment, though.

CENTPAC

As mentioned, John invaded both Palmyra and Canton and was stopped on the beaches in both efforts. Our ability to respond is limited by lack of forces and by the probable presence of the 4 CVs and 2 CVLs of KB-1 and KB-2. They may be headed elsewhere, but we have to assume they are still close by. At least it appears a quick Hawaii invasion is not developing.

We are sending sub and air re-supply to Palmyra. Southern Cross Force, now at full strength with 2 strong SCTFs and the 4 CAVs in support, are nosing over from Noumea in case opportunities present at Canton, but honestly I’m pretty risk averse given the possible IJN CV presence. We’re using 3 DDs as pickets to minimize the danger and are still 40 hexes away. S-boats are also converging on Canton.

SOPAC

Tahiti and Pago Pago are building up. Still too early to tell if John has major designs on the area.

SWPAC

The Oz bastions are in great shape, with practically all the available troops bedded down and building forts at Sydney and Melbourne. The survivors of the Thundering Herd are approaching the latter base with about 80K fuel from the DEI. In addition, the PI air groups that were bought out are arriving daily by rail from Alice Springs. Another set of air groups moving to Melbourne consist of the survivors of the Malaya air force. They will transition to India via Cape Town in time.

ABDA

John is moving fast, taking several bases around Palembang, Samarinda, and air dropping on a lot of unoccupied bases in Celebes. Ambon, Manado, Makassar and Kendari are still in Allied hands, but no doubt that will change. His DEI carriers are currently supporting what appears to be an invasion of Balikpapan, and as a result we have a sub carpet in place trying to catch them.

The enemy is sweeping Batavia and recently began bombing. We played possum and on the 21st caught the bombers coming in ahead of the sweepers in a CAP trap that downed 6-8 enemy 2E bombers.

John also para dropped on the base inland of Balikpapan, but it has a Dutch Commando with about 27 AV that stopped the attack. Tiny victories are all we have!

SigInt and air patrols show an invasion force headed for Boela and perhaps Ambon. The Dutch cruisers and Force Z plan to hit this attack hard if possible.

Burma

IJA troops just popped into view near Moulmein. A vast army of British trains will soon convey our forces in Southern Burma toward the Indian frontier.

India

Again, Bombay and Karachi are now well-defended, and the AVG, Indian and Burmese air forces are gathered and training. Eastern Fleet is at Colombo practicing its fleet in being skills for the moment.

China

This front is finally getting organized on the key defensive points. Lusu War Area forces are moving into the interior SW of Peking in hopes of disappearing until a guerrilla war is begun.

Planning

QE is moving to San Diego to transport a Marine regiment to Pago Pago. How much more heads that way is dependent on John’s aggressiveness in SOPAC.

We are really hoping to bag some prey in NOPAC with those nasty CLs. John’s tardiness up here may cost him. Then again, does his tardiness indicate a different plan than the norm for him? Hmm.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 11/22/2014 11:10:42 PM >

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/23/2014 6:48:26 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Two interesting things to report as I send off orders for Dec 23rd:

1) SigInt was spot on and we sight a big, slow convoy 1 hex NE of Boela. Force Z is disbanded at a dot base 2 hexes SE of Boela. Needless to say, we are going in! Should be fun.

2) SigInt detects that a tank regiment is prepping for Normanton. It's only one data point on John's Phase II intentions, but IMHO it's a strong one. Using a tank unit for deceptive prep seems less likely than using a division for the same purpose, and Normanton is a very believable landing point for an invasion of NE Oz because of the good road leading from there all the way to Townsville. Add all that to John's aversion to land war on the Asian continent and we have a working hypothesis that he is going for Oz and/or SOPAC. Keep in mind he can't bomb the industry until July '43 by house rule, so at least that fear is off the table. We may choose to keep the former Malaya air force in Australia after all.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 11/23/2014 7:48:47 PM >

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/25/2014 4:59:07 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Ahh, Good times…

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 24, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Boela at 82,110, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Busho Maru, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
PB Keiko Maru, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Kizan Maru, Shell hits 2
xAK Konan Maru, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Nanko Maru, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Minryo Maru
xAK Shozan Maru
xAK Turusima Maru
xAK Tainichi Maru, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Tofuku Maru, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
xAK Tosei Maru
xAKL Nichiryo Maru
xAKL Fukkai Maru
xAKL Totai Maru
xAKL Bichu Maru
xAKL Ryuto Maru
xAP Horai Maru, Shell hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Takatiho Maru, Shell hits 4, heavy fires

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales
BC Repulse, Shell hits 1
DD Vampire
DD Tenedos
DD Express

And, one of the survivors doesn’t get far…

Submarine attack near Boela at 82,110

Japanese Ships
xAP Takatiho Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS KX

xAP Takatiho Maru is sighted by SS KX
SS KX launches 4 torpedoes at xAP Takatiho Maru


< Message edited by Cribtop -- 11/25/2014 6:00:09 AM >

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/25/2014 12:41:23 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Maybe a question already answered someplace else, but where did the two American BFs loaded at Darwin go?? I think I should have sent mine to Java.

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Post #: 85
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/25/2014 1:03:50 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		I actually sent them to Melbourne, which is a very conservative choice in some respects, but I'm assuming John is going to go hard in SOPAC and thus they will be available for mischief there while in the meantime supporting a huge air defense of the Melbourne/Sydney bastion.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/25/2014 2:50:41 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Construction Engineers - I send the EABs to Cape Town and eventually India. The SeaBees stay in Pacific and Australia. Eventually, you will have enough in India.

Speaking of India, what troops have you send to Cape Town?? Even if they don't end up there, its good to have a force there that just needs PPs before being sent.

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Post #: 87
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/25/2014 5:00:24 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Good question. I am just now beginning to receive the white restricted divisions in CONUS, which in turn frees up yellow units to move out. Not sure what I'm sending to Cape Town as the signs point to a move other than India. However, I have a vague plan to ship a US Division and to use the Aussies that arrive from the Mid East in India for now.

I am also toying with reinforcing Umnak Island, using the third element of the division intended for Pearl plus some coastal arty and a base force.

Since my last update, KB-1 and KB-2 popped up raiding off Pago Pago (there was nothing to hit), and Kongo class KB escorts raided Tahiti, sinking a lone AMc there. This reduces further the odds of a crazy Hawaii venture and continues to reinforce that OZ and SOPAC are his main targets.

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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/25/2014 11:12:02 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		With the Line Islands under pressure and Oz as a possible strategic target, are you considering a SoPac depot to relay fuel, refuel convoys to the land down under? Where are his subs showing up? I seem to remember John uses them on combat Ops more than sea lane interdiction.

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Post #: 89
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd ... - 11/26/2014 12:42:21 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Well, I was planning on Tahiti for that, but latest SigInt shows radio call signs of xAKs just north of the Marquesas (great Crosby, Still & Nash song about those islands). If John takes them, then everything is cut off between Oz and CONUS. In that case, I would probably abandon my SOPAC plans revolving around Tahiti and Pago Pago and supply the Oz bastions via Cape Town.

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