Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons

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Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/4/2014 9:52:33 AM

76mm

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I'm still working through the Brass Drum scenario and am trying to figure out how all of the pieces fit together. For instance:

1) How are the Growlers used? Should they actually be sent along on strike missions to suppress enemy radars, etc. right at the point of attack, or should they be assigned a "support" mission some distance from the targets? Or sent along with, but behind, the other aircraft on a strike mission?

2) How are stand-off SEAD weapons used? Again, should the F/A18C Hornets armed with ADM141Cs be sent with a strike mission, or ahead of it to take out enemy radars in advance of the main strike? Also, are these weapons best used against enemy SAM sites or radar installations?

Post #: 1

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/4/2014 10:54:35 AM

DismalPseudoscience

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Jamming is more effective the closer you are to the radar - up to a point. If you get too close, they will just "burn through" and see you clearly.

I recommend holding the Growlers about 50nm from the target radars and SAM sites. Jamming is most effective when the jammer is pointed directly towards the radar, so I recommend keeping the Growlers a bit apart, one ahead of the other, so that once one of them gets too close, you can pull it back while the other keeps its nose on the enemy radars. I would recommend controlling them individually, and not using missions for SEAD and jamming. Prioritizing targets is too important to let the AI do it.

The ADM141Cs are decoys - just fly the carriers a bit ahead of the main strike, and launch the decoys with a bearing-only-launch command (Ctrl+F1, I believe). The decoys only travel at 400 knots. You might be able to adjust the speed and course after launch, but I haven't figured out how yet. So you need to launch them first, in front of your planes, and then launch your strike weapons (JSOW, SLAMMER, ect) later so that they arrive just after the decoys. It doesn't have to be perfect, but better timing means more SAMs on the decoys and less on your strike weapons. Jamming should prevent SAMs from even targeting most of your planes.

I recommend using HARM and AARGM against enemy SAM batteries. They will target the radars of SAM group, rendering them unable to shoot if you hit. Targeting an early-warning radar may reduce enemy SA, but good SAMs like S-300 have capable radars in the "S-300 Battery" unit marker, and they need those radars to shoot at all. You won't be able to launch an ARM until the threat radar is turned on, so don't worry if you click on the enemy SAMs and don't see your HARM as an available weapon - it means they aren't even trying to shoot you. Bring the SEAD planes in as close as you dare, maybe 30 miles, so as to squash the enemy radars the moment they turn on. If you want to kill the long range early-warning radars, a couple Tomahawks usually suffice. These radars rarely have good point defenses nearby, and the missiles won't be picked up in time for interceptors to make a difference (usually).

I hope some of this advice seems helpful.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 2

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/4/2014 2:54:09 PM

76mm

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Thanks much, very helpful advice.

One follow-up question: you mention that prioritizing targets with the Growlers is too important to let the AI do it. I thought that the Growlers are primarily ECM platforms? If so, do they really have "targets", or do I just flip the "Offensive ECM" switch in the game, and then they'll affect all units within ECM range?

Sorry for all the basic questions, but these weapons systems are a bit more complicated than the WWII tanks I'm used to!

(in reply to DismalPseudoscience)

Post #: 3

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/4/2014 4:37:19 PM

Dutchie999

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Thanks much, very helpful advice.

One follow-up question: you mention that prioritizing targets with the Growlers is too important to let the AI do it. I thought that the Growlers are primarily ECM platforms? If so, do they really have "targets", or do I just flip the "Offensive ECM" switch in the game, and then they'll affect all units within ECM range?

Sorry for all the basic questions, but these weapons systems are a bit more complicated than the WWII tanks I'm used to!

You just turn on the jamming pods on the Growler and 'hide' your strike/cap aircraft behind it. At least that is the idea in real life (I think it is partially modelled like this in the game). The theory is to literally create a wall of electronic signals. Although that has it's weaknesses in modern combat. Modern SAM systems (the ones from your country in particular) are capable of tracking and targeting jamming aircraft. As soon as they are taken down the wall falls and all behind it is exposed.

< Message edited by Dutchie999 -- 11/4/2014 5:38:50 PM >

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 4

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/4/2014 4:57:22 PM

76mm

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From: Washington, DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutchie999
Modern SAM systems (the ones from your country in particular)

Just to avoid confusion, I want to point out that while I live in Russia, I'm actually American...

(in reply to Dutchie999)

Post #: 5

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/4/2014 5:06:42 PM

Dutchie999

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutchie999
Modern SAM systems (the ones from your country in particular)

Just to avoid confusion, I want to point out that while I live in Russia, I'm actually American...

A spy!

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 6

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/4/2014 5:07:18 PM

Pergite!

Posts: 546
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: The temperate climate zone
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutchie999

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Thanks much, very helpful advice.

One follow-up question: you mention that prioritizing targets with the Growlers is too important to let the AI do it. I thought that the Growlers are primarily ECM platforms? If so, do they really have "targets", or do I just flip the "Offensive ECM" switch in the game, and then they'll affect all units within ECM range?

Sorry for all the basic questions, but these weapons systems are a bit more complicated than the WWII tanks I'm used to!

You just turn on the jamming pods on the Growler and 'hide' your strike/cap aircraft behind it. At least that is the idea in real life (I think it is partially modelled like this in the game). The theory is to literally create a wall of electronic signals. Although that has it's weaknesses in modern combat. Modern SAM systems (the ones from your country in particular) are capable of tracking and targeting jamming aircraft. As soon as they are taken down the wall falls and all behind it is exposed.

Modern ECM is a lot more advanced than the crude barrage jamming you are explaining. The best jamming is not even detected until it's to late and it has given your supported operation the edge it needed. However, the jamming model in Command is however handled as you describe, purely sensor degradation and/or denial, which is quite enough.

(in reply to Dutchie999)

Post #: 7

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/5/2014 2:38:51 AM

76mm

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quote:

A spy!

Shhhh!

(in reply to Pergite!)

Post #: 8

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/5/2014 4:17:29 AM

jtoatoktoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutchie999
Modern SAM systems (the ones from your country in particular)

Just to avoid confusion, I want to point out that while I live in Russia, I'm actually American...

When you come back to America some day....can you bring me a nice Russian Girl to love??

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 9

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/5/2014 10:19:23 AM

Dutchie999

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Joined: 10/8/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jtoatoktoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutchie999
Modern SAM systems (the ones from your country in particular)

Just to avoid confusion, I want to point out that while I live in Russia, I'm actually American...

When you come back to America some day....can you bring me a nice Russian Girl to love??

Can you bring me back a S-400? I'd love to have one. Just for on the weekends of course.

(in reply to jtoatoktoe)

Post #: 10

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/6/2014 1:16:04 AM

DismalPseudoscience

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Joined: 10/10/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Thanks much, very helpful advice.

One follow-up question: you mention that prioritizing targets with the Growlers is too important to let the AI do it. I thought that the Growlers are primarily ECM platforms? If so, do they really have "targets", or do I just flip the "Offensive ECM" switch in the game, and then they'll affect all units within ECM range?

Sorry for all the basic questions, but these weapons systems are a bit more complicated than the WWII tanks I'm used to!

Sorry, I phrased that poorly. I recommend manually controlling both SEAD and jammer aircraft. SEAD, in order to prioritize targets better. Jammers, to keep them pointed towards the enemy and the optimal distance away.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 11

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/6/2014 3:28:01 AM

76mm

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Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
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quote:

Sorry, I phrased that poorly. I recommend manually controlling both SEAD and jammer aircraft. SEAD, in order to prioritize targets better. Jammers, to keep them pointed towards the enemy and the optimal distance away.

All clear, thanks again for the explanations!

(in reply to DismalPseudoscience)

Post #: 12

RE: Couple of Questions about ECM/SEAD weapons - 11/7/2014 2:09:44 AM

AFIntel