Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

I am one of those extremists which would like to ban unit transfers to not-yet-active HQs. It is defying logic to transfer command to a void. Especially if there are other existing unrestricted HQs to transfer to. For example, transfer to Pacific Fleet HQ instead of South Pacific.
But I also advocate that once unrestricted, changing HQs should be free of pp charges. I think this would solve many exploits issues and allows a "clean" command structure.
But well, won't happen so we must apply Malthusian moral restraint.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

In my opinion, that is too extreme; as long as "the price is right" is in place and not suddendly the entire west cost based US army become part of ComFleetAirWest or equivalent, then I see no issue on selecting "yet to arrive" HQs.

That said, I will try to avoid any historical horror like putting for example, a US Army infantry division under the 1st Marine Air Wing

Is it possible for Japan to do this trick?

regards

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab
I don't plan to edit. I have always shipped the initial ground units by attaching to them available naval, air or marines HQ. Today it dawned on me that US Army only has land HQ structures for Luzon and CONUSA, and has zero HQ structure between them until April 1942. Weird. Were the units subordinated to naval/air in RL or they were all independent?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Resurrecting this thread.

If you check both stock and DBB scenarios, you will see that the first unrestricted US Army HQ available is Southwest Pacific, which arrives in April, 1942 in Australia. Now, on 8th December 1941 as the Allied player I have several US Army units (inf, AA, BFs) that I would like to ship outside CONUSA, preferably attaching them to an unrestricted land US Army HQ. However, I don't have any such HQ to attach it! If I want to ship a US Army unit out of USA I have to attach it eiter to navalHQ or air HQ. In the stock scenarios, there is at least this fictional, unrestricted US Marines Corp HQ, but in DBB there is no such thing. So, attaching land units to an air HQ or naval HQ is not an exlpoit or trick, but a necessity. Obviously, I cannot wait until Apirl 1942 in order to ship my first units out of USA, while the Jap player will have covered all bases in the Pacific by that date.

I have a hard time imagining that there was no US Army HQ structure for Pacific between December 1941 and April 1942 in RL.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Resurrecting this thread.

If you check both stock and DBB scenarios, you will see that the first unrestricted US Army HQ available is Southwest Pacific, which arrives in April, 1942 in Australia. Now, on 8th December 1941 as the Allied player I have several US Army units (inf, AA, BFs) that I would like to ship outside CONUSA, preferably attaching them to an unrestricted land US Army HQ. However, I don't have any such HQ to attach it! If I want to ship a US Army unit out of USA I have to attach it eiter to navalHQ or air HQ. In the stock scenarios, there is at least this fictional, unrestricted US Marines Corp HQ, but in DBB there is no such thing. So, attaching land units to an air HQ or naval HQ is not an exlpoit or trick, but a necessity. Obviously, I cannot wait until Apirl 1942 in order to ship my first units out of USA, while the Jap player will have covered all bases in the Pacific by that date.

I have a hard time imagining that there was no US Army HQ structure for Pacific between December 1941 and April 1942 in RL.

The game designates certain HQ as Command HQ rather than Army, Navy, etc. PacAO (that's the DBB name, might be different in stock) is a command HQ and you can certainly assign those USA units to PacAO if you like. It's not any kind of cheating or gaming the system.

The issue of assigning units to an HQ that requires less PP to make the unit unrestricted is a different issue and should (IMO) be handled by player agreement. Personally I don't do it, but I know opinions vary. I guess there are also some cases where such is intended so as to reflect historical command structure changes.

Edited to fix "do" was meant to be "don't".

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab
I don't plan to edit. I have always shipped the initial ground units by attaching to them available naval, air or marines HQ. Today it dawned on me that US Army only has land HQ structures for Luzon and CONUSA, and has zero HQ structure between them until April 1942. Weird. Were the units subordinated to naval/air in RL or they were all independent?

Depended on the theater, but land and naval forces were never ever subordinated to air HQs, anywhere, any time, except for airfield construction assets or airbase AA defense/security units. Otherwise, units reported to ground or naval command, depending on the organizational structure of the different theaters.

The forerunner to SWPac was ABDA, which controlled all land, sea, air, assets in the area bounded by PI, Malaysia, and Australia. The tactical command structure was primarily the pre-existing Dutch one, overlayed with a mélange of international commanders. The PI was a different beast and conformed to MacArthur’s requirements, which were ad-hoc and changed from time-to-time as circumsyances dictated. MacArthur was evacuated; experienced staff elements were not.

In SWPac, in the beginning, MacArthur had no US Army subordinate command units. There were no higher echelon troops, no trained staffs, no facilities; nothing except a couple divisions worth of untrained, inexperienced, semi-equipped, indifferently officered, recruits. Commanding both US and Aus forces, MacArthur used what was available; Australian staffs and commands, under the rubric Allied Land Forces, under Blamey (New Guinea Force, 1 Corps, 2 Corps, etc.). After US troops were deemed fit for combat (after 6 to 9 months of intensive training), they were assigned to Australian commands for operations. MacArthur did not request a US Corps level HQ staff until Aug 1942. Eichelburger’s I Corps activated October 1942, under command of 1st Aus Army (Laverack). Even though active, I Corps was not initially operational. At Buna, Eichelberger only commanded the US units under the overall command of Aus Gen Herring (technically, Aus I Corps). Vasey commanded the Australian units, also under Herring. The first true US Army planning/operational control HQ, in SWPac, was Krueger’s Sixth US Army, activated February 1943.

There was neither need nor scope for operational US Army Corps and Army level HQs until Elkton/Cartwheel.

In CenPac and SoPac, everything was under overall Navy command, with a ComAirxxPac Admiral commanding USN, USMC, and USAAF units, eventually with a USAAF General as deputy.

All ground forces were also under overall Navy command, with planning and operational control initially in the Navy’s hands, but handed off to the USMC unit commander once established. There was neither scope nor need for Corps and Army level HQs (either USMC or USA) until the end of 1942, when XIV Corps (Patch) took over tactical command from ‘TF Vandegrift’ on Guadalcanal, December 1942.

In the beginning, and for at least twelve to eighteen months, all higher echelon ground force staffs were fully utilized for theater unit training and logistical establishment and build-up (whether USA or USMC). There were neither people nor institutional resources available for anything else. Division level was the highest functional tactical command echelon for a long time, excepting SWPac, which used Australian structure as the intermediate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

MacArthur did not request a US Corps level HQ staff until Aug 1942. Eichelburger’s I Corps activated October 1942, under command of 1st Aus Army (Laverack). Even though active, I Corps was not initially operational. At Buna, Eichelberger only commanded the US units under the overall command of Aus Gen Herring (technically, Aus I Corps). Vasey commanded the Australian units, also under Herring. The first true US Army planning/operational control HQ, in SWPac, was Krueger’s Sixth US Army, activated February 1943.

quote:

I am one of those extremists which would like to ban unit transfers to not-yet-active HQs. It is defying logic to transfer command to a void.

quote:

My comment about not allowing this was made with the provision that changing unrestricted units should not cost PPs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Resurrecting this thread.

If you check both stock and DBB scenarios, you will see that the first unrestricted US Army HQ available is Southwest Pacific, which arrives in April, 1942 in Australia. Now, on 8th December 1941 as the Allied player I have several US Army units (inf, AA, BFs) that I would like to ship outside CONUSA, preferably attaching them to an unrestricted land US Army HQ. However, I don't have any such HQ to attach it! If I want to ship a US Army unit out of USA I have to attach it eiter to navalHQ or air HQ. In the stock scenarios, there is at least this fictional, unrestricted US Marines Corp HQ, but in DBB there is no such thing. So, attaching land units to an air HQ or naval HQ is not an exlpoit or trick, but a necessity. Obviously, I cannot wait until Apirl 1942 in order to ship my first units out of USA, while the Jap player will have covered all bases in the Pacific by that date.

I have a hard time imagining that there was no US Army HQ structure for Pacific between December 1941 and April 1942 in RL.