RE: ComFleetAirWest

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> RE: ComFleetAirWest

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RE: ComFleetAirWest - 2/6/2018 5:10:26 PM

Yaab

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Nice info. Makes more sense to attach the early US Army units to this Marine pseudo-corps HQ than to air and naval ones.

(in reply to Blackhorse)

Post #: 31

RE: ComFleetAirWest - 2/7/2018 12:48:33 AM

spence

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Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
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quote:

It's mission [was to] train the 2nd Marine Division and the Army's 7th Division.

The 7th US Army Division is the same division that starts Dec 1941 in San Francisco as a motorized division (and assigned to a restricted HQ)? And gets converted to an infantry division later to invade Attu? Was another US Army division assigned to replace the 7th (since the 7th is restricted at start)?

A similar organization was formed at Camp Lejeune about Nov 1941 involving the 1st Marine Division and 1st US Army Infantry Division. I think a group of transports was concurrently assigned to practice amphibious assault techniques. Of course subsequently, the 1st Mardiv went to the Pacific and the 1st InfDiv went to the Atlantic (further info at USCG Historians website)

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 32

RE: ComFleetAirWest - 2/7/2018 1:36:12 AM

Blackhorse

Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
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quote:

The 7th US Army Division is the same division that starts Dec 1941 in San Francisco as a motorized division (and assigned to a restricted HQ)? And gets converted to an infantry division later to invade Attu? Was another US Army division assigned to replace the 7th (since the 7th is restricted at start)?

Spence,

No. The 7th replaced the 3rd. According to Rottman, "after exercising in Washington state, the planned Hawaiian exercise (7th Infantry and 2nd Marine) was cancelled when the war broke out." There is no indication that any other Army division was assigned.

Per Stanton's World War II Order of Battle, the 7th Infantry became a test-bed division and was redesignated the 7th Motorized Division 9 Apr 42. The experiment failed, and the Army abandoned the motorized division concept. The division was redesignated the 7th Infantry in January, 1943, and deployed overseas in April.

In the game, there is no way to 'unrestrict' a permanently restricted unit. So the 7th Motorized Division (permanently restricted) withdraws in February, 1943. The 7th Infantry Division arrives, unrestricted, in March 1943, able to deploy.

FWIW, the Motorized Division concept failed because it required as much sealift to carry it overseas as an armored division, but had the firepower of an infantry division. It was unsuitable for where the Army was going to do most of its fighting in the Pacific. Finally, the US Army's 'leg' infantry divisions already had as many trucks as the motorized divisions of other countries. A standard infantry division had enough trucks to carry 1/3 of the division at a time.

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(in reply to spence)

Post #: 33

RE: ComFleetAirWest - 2/7/2018 1:47:32 AM

Blackhorse

Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
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quote:

A similar organization was formed at Camp Lejeune about Nov 1941 involving the 1st Marine Division and 1st US Army Infantry Division. I think a group of transports was concurrently assigned to practice amphibious assault techniques. Of course subsequently, the 1st Mardiv went to the Pacific and the 1st InfDiv went to the Atlantic (further info at USCG Historians website)

Spence,

You are spot on. That Corps HQ - formed in June 41 and commanded by Holland M. "Howling Mad" Smith - also went through a bewildering number of name changes before, and at the beginning of the war. Here's an interesting nugget from Rottman that you caused me to unearth:

"Besides training the 1st Marine Division, the Corps, under its various names, also trained the Army 1st and 9th Divisions. From 1941 and into 1942, concerns regarding the position of the government of Brazil and its pro-axis army led to the preparation of the 1st Marine and 9th Divisions to execute an amphibious assault to seize some airfields, some of which were in use by US aviation, in northeast Brazil. Plan RUBBER was cancelled in Feb 42."

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(in reply to spence)

Post #: 34

RE: ComFleetAirWest - 2/7/2018 5:14:35 PM

spence

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
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Took a while since they reorganized the USCG website but here's the story of pre-WW2 joint amphibious training between the USMC and USCG.

https://media.defense.gov/2017/Jun/26/2001769032/-1/-1/0/CAMPLEJEUNEUSCGLJKIMBALL2011.PDF

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 35