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Playable! - 11/11/2014 9:35:13 PM

jesperpehrson

Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
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I just came back to check out the status of MWIF. It is working like a charm.

Two days ago my friend and I played Barbarossa via teamviewer, worked perfectly (except that the damned weather screwed me over :-P). No glitches whatsoever.

Today, i had a day off from work, and I played through a year of global war in solitaire. Again it worked fine. I had one fatal error when I was fiddling with the production planning. Autosave got me back on track.

Something I do not understand is why units that are flipped and out of supply get unflipped at the end of turn. Is this as intended?

Well done Steve, you are the man!

//Jesper

Post #: 1

RE: Playable! - 11/11/2014 10:14:43 PM

paulderynck

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From: Canada
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deleted - duplicate

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 11/11/2014 11:18:09 PM >

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RE: Playable! - 11/11/2014 10:17:21 PM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

Something I do not understand is why units that are flipped and out of supply get unflipped at the end of turn. Is this as intended?

//Jesper

Although many players use the Isolated re-org option, that option is yet to be coded.

There is a workaround (which may not be of full utility depending on who moves first in the new turn) - you can use the Right click unit menu to disorganize units that you and your opponent agree should not have Re-orged if you agreed to play with that option. That only works on your own units so it might be the second impulse before they all get fixed.

Also with the oil option on, many of those same units will not Re-org at the end of the turn because if they are isolated from supply they likely are isolated from the oil they need.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 11/11/2014 11:20:59 PM >

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Paul

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RE: Playable! - 11/11/2014 10:29:05 PM

Courtenay

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However, if the units are just out of supply, but not isolated -- in other words, they can trace a supply line of infinite length -- then yes, they should reorganize, no matter what set of rules you are using.

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I thought I knew how to play this game....

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Post #: 4

RE: Playable! - 11/11/2014 11:33:21 PM

Dabrion

Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
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Like a charm hmm.. try picking up units when moving though a port or playing in 43+ (not a scenario setup..). You either have zero percent of clue or this is trolling. I hope for the latter.

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Courtenay)

Post #: 5

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 2:05:31 AM

rkr1958

Posts: 23483
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Like a charm hmm.. try picking up units when moving though a port or playing in 43+ (not a scenario setup..). You either have zero percent of clue or this is trolling. I hope for the latter.

I guess I don't have a clue either, because I'm almost through the Sep/Oct '43 turn of the global war scenario and everything is working like a charm for me. Well, except for mistakes of my own making, which has nothing to do with MWiF.

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 6

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 2:24:04 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
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It's working well for me too.

Yeah, I can't pick up units moving through a port. A nuisance, but it can be worked around. If that's the biggest problem with the solitaire game, I'd say it's in pretty good shape.

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RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 7:45:40 AM

jesperpehrson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Although many players use the Isolated re-org option, that option is yet to be coded.

Did not know this was just an option. We have always played with that optional when playing the boardgame.

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 8

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 7:48:22 AM

jesperpehrson

Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

try picking up units when moving though a port or playing in 43+ (not a scenario setup..).

I have not encountered (or tried) this yet.

I can only compare with the MWIF I bought a year ago (is it that long ago?) and the difference is huge. Well done all testers!

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 9

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 10:05:34 AM

Joseignacio

Posts: 2449
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From: Madrid, Spain
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IMO if the game needs Skype, it's not playable (at least as intended to be). For me it's not.

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Post #: 10

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 1:33:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

IMO if the game needs Skype, it's not playable (at least as intended to be). For me it's not.

Hi Jose, I just downloaded skype for more testing doing net play and it is a wonderful tool, before when I would test with Cad we would have to type out instructions to each other but now we can communicate like we were in the same room together. I have a cheap headset with a mic, cost about 12 to 15 dollars US or you can go go hog wild with some of the headsets for 200 or 300 US dollars

When net play gets finished skype will be a must for better enjoyment of the game the only problem with skype is that you can not hand a beer to your opponent through skype, sorry!

(in reply to Joseignacio)

Post #: 11

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 2:48:08 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

IMO if the game needs Skype, it's not playable (at least as intended to be). For me it's not.

Hi Jose, I just downloaded skype for more testing doing net play and it is a wonderful tool, before when I would test with Cad we would have to type out instructions to each other but now we can communicate like we were in the same room together. I have a cheap headset with a mic, cost about 12 to 15 dollars US or you can go go hog wild with some of the headsets for 200 or 300 US dollars

When net play gets finished skype will be a must for better enjoyment of the game the only problem with skype is that you can not hand a beer to your opponent through skype, sorry!

Bo

If that beer is a Budweiser, I won't be upset, Bo...

Yes, things are better, but Dabrion is right that there are still things around which do need attention. Progress is slow.
Personally, I would have been very happy if someone at Matrix would decide to program this game for Hot Seat only and advice players to use a program like teamviewer to play over the net, using Hot Seat. Unfortunately, that's not my decision. But think on the time saved for programming this monster for Netplay.

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 12

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 3:13:03 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
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Guys - I am using TeamSpeak now (have joined a clan in WoT). Very advanced compared to Skype. Very usefull in multi-player Netplay when that arrives. You can have sessions together, and retreat very easy to your own team to talk only between allies.

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 13

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 5:39:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

Guys - I am using TeamSpeak now (have joined a clan in WoT). Very advanced compared to Skype. Very usefull in multi-player Netplay when that arrives. You can have sessions together, and retreat very easy to your own team to talk only between allies.

AxelNL check out my status in World of Tanks I have 120 top guns, I use the name Willycube in the game.

Bo

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 14

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 5:53:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

IMO if the game needs Skype, it's not playable (at least as intended to be). For me it's not.

Hi Jose, I just downloaded skype for more testing doing net play and it is a wonderful tool, before when I would test with Cad we would have to type out instructions to each other but now we can communicate like we were in the same room together. I have a cheap headset with a mic, cost about 12 to 15 dollars US or you can go go hog wild with some of the headsets for 200 or 300 US dollars

When net play gets finished skype will be a must for better enjoyment of the game the only problem with skype is that you can not hand a beer to your opponent through skype, sorry!

Bo

If that beer is a Budweiser, I won't be upset, Bo...

Yes, things are better, but Dabrion is right that there are still things around which do need attention. Progress is slow.
Personally, I would have been very happy if someone at Matrix would decide to program this game for Hot Seat only and advice players to use a program like teamviewer to play over the net, using Hot Seat. Unfortunately, that's not my decision. But think on the time saved for programming this monster for Netplay.

When you and all your little Hoornies got their fingers in the dike for a couple of days to stop the flow of water from the Markermeer they will drink any beer handed to them, even a Bud.

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 15

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 6:26:31 PM

Ubercat

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Near Allentown, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Like a charm hmm.. try picking up units when moving though a port or playing in 43+ (not a scenario setup..). You either have zero percent of clue or this is trolling. I hope for the latter.

I guess I don't have a clue either, because I'm almost through the Sep/Oct '43 turn of the global war scenario and everything is working like a charm for me. Well, except for mistakes of my own making, which has nothing to do with MWiF.

Stop having success with the game! You're ruining Dabrions perfectly good butt-hurt.

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"I�m not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I�ve seen what it can do to skyscrapers." -William H. Gascoyne

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 16

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 6:45:45 PM

Dabrion

Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
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Well I would actually play MWiF, if it would "work like a charm". But we have recognized that I have different standards for that.. Actually, the only two words out of these four that fit are "like" and "a". So yea.. job well done!! Half way there..

When it works one day in the far future.. it will be stuck on RAW7, and the cool kids will play RAW666. You don't want to hear it but this whole thing is headed for a train-wreck. You just cannot admit it.. So keep tinkering and have fun if you can ;)

peace

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Ubercat)

Post #: 17

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 7:37:39 PM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
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From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

My solitaire game of MWIF is the most compelling computer game I've played all year. Really fun. I guess I'm just deluded. :)

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Post #: 18

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 7:42:46 PM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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I would put it another way. If you know the boardgame, you now have a disadvantage if you use MWIF, because you know everything that should be possible and find that certain things aren't working like they should according to the rules. For new guys, this isn't always visible. They only see the major bugs appearing and not the ones that gives the game so many fine possibilies...

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Peter

(in reply to Grotius)

Post #: 19

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 7:53:24 PM

Twisted1

Posts: 82
Joined: 12/23/2013
From: Cleveland, OH
Status: offline

Hey AxelNL, what is your screen name on WoT? Mine is - otwistedone

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On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who at the dawn of victory lay down to rest, and in resting died.
Adlai E. Stevenson

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 20

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 8:00:27 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
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From: The Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twisted1

Hey AxelNL, what is your screen name on WoT? Mine is - otwistedone

As Bo and you are on the US servers, you will not find me within the game. I am on the European section. Name is similar to here, but add the number two.

Edit: I see you two are both much better than I!
Bo - you have played an impressive amount!

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 11/12/2014 9:06:35 PM >

(in reply to Twisted1)

Post #: 21

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 8:06:52 PM

jesperpehrson

Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion
Waaa Waaaaaaa Waaaa

Maybe we have different perspectives. I have been waiting for this since 1998 and it is better than I could have ever dreamt. It is very close to what the boardgame feels.

Sure there are bugs and things I would like to be included, but at least I can finally play WIF on the computer. It is glorious and it is getting slowly towards perfection. Perhaps I can play via netplay with my friend before the end of the year.

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 22

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 8:21:05 PM

Dabrion

Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
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quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion
Waaa Waaaaaaa Waaaa

MiMiMimimimimi

Here is a quiz for you: "Which part "feels" like the board game?" Uniform scale map? Bugs all over the place? Easy production interface? Joy of convoy routing? Dysfunctional supply in almost any place that is not the Ukraine or has a similar amount of connected clear hexes and is not impacted by over sea supply. The price? The books? The art style? The software engineering? Being drunk?

Honestly try to put a name on things and try to get clear with your feeling..

Let me add something else for your: Waaa Waaaaaaa Waaaa
Now you may quote me, thank you very much!

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to jesperpehrson)

Post #: 23

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 8:41:07 PM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
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I never derived all that much joy out of convoy routing...

And I've had many opponents that tried to use dysfunctional supply to their benefit.

Seriously, the supply fixes have had a huge impact, there's a few bugs that snuck through, but the improvements have been outstanding. In my NetPlay playtesting we've found several situations where our first reaction was wrong and the game was right. Units that are OOS change to in-supply when you move HQs within range or run over enemy hexes that were interfering with the path.

Here's some things that are good in MWiF that playing over the board doesn't possess, often to the detriment of the playing experience: faithful tracking of hex control, regimented progression through the Sequence of Play, action limits that can't be accidentally exceeded, weather effects in all hexes/hexdots of the weather zones that aren't forgotten for some hex or some portion of an impulse, no 3600 counters to sort by year for literally hours so you can get ready for the next game (not to mention possibly lose some), unlimited (depending on your saves) reproducible "what-if we'd tried this instead that turn?", disrupted units and first cycle ships that do not magically undisrupt or advance one year in appearance...

That's all in addition to the space, pet, and significant other concerns that have already been mentioned repeatedly.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 11/12/2014 9:44:15 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 8:56:47 PM

gw15

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MWIF is a work of art.

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 25

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 9:26:21 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion
Waaa Waaaaaaa Waaaa

MiMiMimimimimi

Here is a quiz for you: "Which part "feels" like the board game?" Uniform scale map? Bugs all over the place? Easy production interface? Joy of convoy routing? Dysfunctional supply in almost any place that is not the Ukraine or has a similar amount of connected clear hexes and is not impacted by over sea supply. The price? The books? The art style? The software engineering? Being drunk?

Honestly try to put a name on things and try to get clear with your feeling..

Let me add something else for your: Waaa Waaaaaaa Waaaa
Now you may quote me, thank you very much!

Do you see perfection when you look into a mirror? If not - how can you live with yourself? If yes - when do you start to bring salvation for us all?

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 26

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 9:59:37 PM

Dabrion

Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
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Answer: Because you don't deserve at all!

I dont want "perfection".. you know a wise man once pointed out it's an elusive goal.. I want "fit for purpose". Plain as that..
The day MWiF beats Vassal in terms of playability you will have an extra set of customers! To this day the sandbox approach of Vassal simple lets you "play more WiF" in the same time than you would have to spend on MWiF.
Turns(MwiF) per unit-time < Turns(BoardGame) per unit-time << Turns(Vassal) per unit-time

I play faster in the board game with first-timers than in MWiF with experienced players. Then look at the "bugs". They are not bugs per se.. they are all complications and uncovered special cases of attempts to "code the rules". To do that a restrictive approach was chosen, such that you may only take actions that are legal per the rules. That is a same as positively identifying all the legal cases and that suxx! This approach never works.. not in real life because you have to enforce it and it leads to police state mentalities, and not in a coding environment.. because a computer is the perfect police state already and you can't handle that! This is a fundamental design flaw.
To address that a mode where you are only warned on a perceived illegal action and where you can individually ignore shortcoming of the software, is an acceptable good workaround.

You are leap frogging towards covering all the special cases, I can see that and they are countable, yay..

Bottom line is: it is nice.. but I want my money back, because it sucks for the �150 I had to drop on it. Next year at equinox we plan to have a big fire and I will sacrifice the MWiF books if this doesnt get much better!

If you are currently contemplating purchase.. rather get some private time with a hooker or by something for your wifes/kids/ponies/cars/*insert here*.

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 27

RE: Playable! - 11/12/2014 10:48:22 PM

Posts: 4176
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twisted1

Hey AxelNL, what is your screen name on WoT? Mine is - otwistedone

As Bo and you are on the US servers, you will not find me within the game. I am on the European section. Name is similar to here, but add the number two.

Edit: I see you two are both much better than I!
Bo - you have played an impressive amount!

I play mostly with a Stug 111, love that little machine, it is a good sniper weapon, if I get into tier 7 game which seems like 9 out of 10 games, I have a lot of trouble, tier 6 heavies cremate me, I can hold my own in Tier 5 games, but heavies are still tough, I also use a grille artillery and I have Tiger 2 that my grandson uses, I personally don't like the Tiger 2 because there is always somebody a lot bigger than you are and it is very expensive to maintain.

I play a lot when I get frustrated with MWIF, please that is not a dig just the way it is, have not played in about 3 weeks.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 11/12/2014 11:49:46 PM >

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 28

RE: Playable! - 11/13/2014 12:04:09 AM

etsadler

Posts: 148
Joined: 4/27/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

To do that a restrictive approach was chosen, such that you may only take actions that are legal per the rules.

I'm not comprehending how being restricted to actions that are "legal per the rules" is a bad thing. Isn't following the rules, well, the normal way to play a game?

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 29

RE: Playable! - 11/13/2014 12:16:43 AM

etsadler

Posts: 148
Joined: 4/27/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I play faster in the board game with first-timers than in MWiF with experienced players.

This I can agree with. Playing "in person" with the board game you can skip phases that are not needed. For instance if you are moving a ship through several sea zones and the non-phasing player doesn't want to intercept it moves a lot faster in person. Also things like returning air units from combat can be done at the same time in person.

I would, however, temper my agreement by saying that, in my experience, games with experienced players often take longer, because the experienced player is much more aware of all the nuanced play available to them, and may spend much longer planning and executing on those nuances than the novice that does not yet have that knowledge.

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 30