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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Science Fiction] >> Warhammer® 40,000® Armageddon™ >> So, what is this game like?

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So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 11:32:02 AM

Perturabo

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What's the scale?
How much is one hex?
How much time is one turn?
What size are the units?
Are they stacking or not?
What about weapon ranges?

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 12:32:34 PM

IainMcNeil

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Hope this helps:

Scale is not specified but this is what you can fit in a hex:
10-50 men per hex, 2-6 tanks, 1 titan
Time is not specified but estimate it at ~30 minutes
No stacking but units can support adjacent units if they have the right ability
Weapon ranges from melee up to 7 hexes. All units have ranged weapons (some assault units are the exception).

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 3:28:08 PM

Perturabo

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Oh :( .

Are there any chances for someone making a grognard Wh40k wargame? Maybe a Flashpoint Campaigns game?

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 4:13:07 PM

zakblood

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Flashpoint Campaigns is already out, so don't really understand the question, so can't really give a good reply tbh, is there something you need to see or understand?

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 4:24:39 PM

Perturabo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

Flashpoint Campaigns is already out, so don't really understand the question, so can't really give a good reply tbh, is there something you need to see or understand?

I mean a Wh40k game on Flashpoint Campaigns engine or on other grognard engine. Something that would try to simulate the Wh40k combat in concrete scale.

I find it quite disappointing that after Matrix Games got the Wh40k licence, the only Wh40k game they release is some weird game that doesn't even have set scale.

After Final Liberation (dumbed down Steel Panthers) in 1997 and Chaos Gate (decent skirmish wargame) in 1998, Wh40k adaptations on computer became very, very gamey like Rites of War, Firewarrior and DoW 1 and DoW 2. Then there's a Horus Heresy tower defense game D: .
And there are no signs of the trend reversing.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 4:44:03 PM

zakblood

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ah i see now, don't agree with it, but do at least see your point, different groups use different engines, while i have tested this and Hell before it, i didn't know what other games had been done of either engine until i was into testing, now i see it makes little difference for game play terms etc, scale and height a side, bot hare fine for me, good game play and have enjoyed both, while either or both could be better on lets say Unreal Engine 4, CryEngine or even Unity for that matter, and after that it may not make the game play any better, but that costs would double or more, so would also be passed on....

i play all games mentioned, all are great games in there own right, and yes all use different engines, each one is suited to the game it's been released on...

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 4:44:06 PM

ironduke1955

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I bought this game on Impulse this morning, first impression poor Graphics limited ambition bit of a Warhammer40k rip off. Look at the reviews and genuine forum comments before even thinking of buying this game.

< Message edited by ironduke1955 -- 11/26/2014 5:45:46 PM >

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 4:50:35 PM

zakblood

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play it for a few missions, and most of that gets forgotten once the orc's walk over you a few times, it has hidden depth, and i don't regret nothing, as i was one of the first who said it's not the best looking game in the world, then spent 4 solid days playing it, it's one of those games that doesn't grow on you, it's like a arm you lost and found, it's just there and then you wonder what you first thought really doesn't matter, as it's game play, over anything else

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 5:20:28 PM

MikeGER

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

Flashpoint Campaigns is already out, so don't really understand the question, so can't really give a good reply tbh, is there something you need to see or understand?

I mean a Wh40k game on Flashpoint Campaigns engine or on other grognard engine. Something that would try to simulate the Wh40k combat in concrete scale.

Perturabo, you can do a Flashpoint Campaigns WH40k mod ...just define the fictive weapons stats, and units that cary them and group them into an OOB in the accoring spreadsheets

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 6:39:15 PM

FroBodine

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I think the game is very good. I have already posted all my disapointments and concerns on the Slitherine forum (someday these goombahs will make one forum for all their games. This two forum thing for the same games is very silly).

Anyway, the game is a blast, and I know I will spend many hours enjoying it. It is much less polished than the Panzer Corps series, but hopefully the kinks will be worked out, and things will be upgraded.

The graphics are fine for a game of this type, but it can be very difficult to see some of your units, as they often blend into the map terrain. I wish the units stood out more against the map.

Oh lordy, how I wish they would give us the ability to paint/color our own units. That would be outstanding!

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 7:25:47 PM

JiminyJickers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Hope this helps:

Scale is not specified but this is what you can fit in a hex:
10-50 men per hex, 2-6 tanks, 1 titan
Time is not specified but estimate it at ~30 minutes
No stacking but units can support adjacent units if they have the right ability
Weapon ranges from melee up to 7 hexes. All units have ranged weapons (some assault units are the exception).

Well, in my case, these stats makes me really excited an ensures I'm buying the game right now.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 8:50:37 PM

KEYSTONE0795

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Hope this helps:

Scale is not specified but this is what you can fit in a hex:
10-50 men per hex, 2-6 tanks, 1 titan
Time is not specified but estimate it at ~30 minutes
No stacking but units can support adjacent units if they have the right ability
Weapon ranges from melee up to 7 hexes. All units have ranged weapons (some assault units are the exception).

Well, in my case, these stats makes me really excited an ensures I'm buying the game right now.

I too am interested in this game. It appears to be a "fun" wargame. I'm sure once I explore to rules, the nuances will become apparent. If I want a complicated game (and sometimes I do) I'll play War In The East, War in The Pacific, or Advanced Squad Leader.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/26/2014 10:15:06 PM

zakblood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I think the game is very good. I have already posted all my disapointments and concerns on the Slitherine forum (someday these goombahs will make one forum for all their games. This two forum thing for the same games is very silly).

Anyway, the game is a blast, and I know I will spend many hours enjoying it. It is much less polished than the Panzer Corps series, but hopefully the kinks will be worked out, and things will be upgraded.

The graphics are fine for a game of this type, but it can be very difficult to see some of your units, as they often blend into the map terrain. I wish the units stood out more against the map.

Oh lordy, how I wish they would give us the ability to paint/color our own units. That would be outstanding!

with the editor you can do almost anything, and with a paint program, colour won't be any harder to change either

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 12:20:30 AM

Dorb

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for the price, I'll give it ago - after all you can't go wrong with 40k and Panzer Corps combo , can ya...

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 5:20:07 AM

Perturabo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeGER

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

Flashpoint Campaigns is already out, so don't really understand the question, so can't really give a good reply tbh, is there something you need to see or understand?

I mean a Wh40k game on Flashpoint Campaigns engine or on other grognard engine. Something that would try to simulate the Wh40k combat in concrete scale.

Perturabo, you can do a Flashpoint Campaigns WH40k mod ...just define the fictive weapons stats, and units that cary them and group them into an OOB in the accoring spreadsheets

One can't make a Wh40k mod for an ordinary wargame because there are no mechanics for stuff like void shields, power fields, psykers, personal armour, emphasis on melee, walkers, including gigantic walkers like Titans, etc.
Then there's a question of AI doctrines and stuff like that.
For the same reason it's impossible to make a good Final Liberation remake mod for SPWaW.

That's why the loss of "simulationist" Wh40k wargames and turning to RTS and Panzer General clones was so bad. It's not a problem that modders can fix.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 7:23:44 AM

JiminyJickers

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Good point Perturabo. Even though I enjoy this game, now that I think more about it, a more serious Warhammer 40K game would be better and I would definitely get into it.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 12:30:55 PM

wodin

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@Perturabo I too would love to see the Flashpoint engine totally modified to do WH40K. Though it would take the developers to make the necessary modifications etc.

Of the many engines here Panzer Corps is the one I really don't enjoy so was disappointed it was used for the WH40K game.

However I'm sure all those who enjoy that engine will live this.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 2:19:27 PM

Kuokkanen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Of the many engines here Panzer Corps is the one I really don't enjoy so was disappointed it was used for the WH40K game.

Wait, so this game is exactly what it looks like: modded Panzer Corps?

[edit]
What's this then?

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 11/27/2014 3:22:10 PM >

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 2:26:07 PM

ironduke1955

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I would like to see a X-Com style game using Warhammer 40k. Squad level with upgrades as the game progresses promotions and additional equipment. This game looks like the planetary element of a grand strategy game not a stand alone game in its own right, that may have been the original intent.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 2:39:51 PM

Ranger33

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I've played for several hours and I can safely say that this is not a simple reskin of Panzer Corps. The combat has a more tactical feel to it, with units engaging at multiple ranges with different weapons, with many more options for cover among the variety of terrain types. Too soon to say how balanced it is, but I'm certainly having fun. The AI in the early missions seems to be less clever/more passive than in Panzer Corps, maybe turning up the difficulty will help with that.

On the subject of making a grognard wargame out of 40k, I have one huge question: How in the world would one balance that? If we go by the table top game, the balance varies wildly depending on which faction got the most recent rules book, if we go by the lore, there would need to be a plot armor stat for each individual unit. If you've read the books, you know that space marine armor can vary from indestructible to paper-thin, depending on the name of the person wearing it.

All that said, SPWAW with all the factions from 40k would be one of the coolest things ever.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 2:42:11 PM

Perturabo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

[edit]
What's this then?

This abomination is Space Wolf. There's also another abomination - a Horus Heresy tower defence game.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 3:06:37 PM

wodin

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Ranger33..the game is still as abstract as Panzer Corps and follows rock paper scissors style of gameplay (though not as bad as PC I expect due to different weapons per unit) and these are the issues I have with PC. Though it is modified and has some new additions it is still PC at it's core with regards to gameplay you can't get away from it as it uses the PC engine. It would have to use a different engine or have it's own engine to fully break away from the PC core gameplay.

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/27/2014 4:08:46 PM >

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 3:46:47 PM

Ranger33

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Wodin, I don't think I claimed that the game was something completely different from PC, but like I said, it is not simply PC with sci-if graphics. In my experience so far, the game offers a greater degree of freedom in terms of movement, targeting, and unit choice. You really have to figure in the range of the different weapons among your units and the enemy.

Also, the rock-paper-scissors aspect is mitigated by the multiple weapons like you said: for example, many artillery units have machine guns that can engage attacking infantry effectively, but have a relatively short range with their big guns that can expose them to counterattack from enemy tanks 2-3 hexes away if there is LOS.

The terrain is also more interesting I think. There are multi-hex forts and trench lines scattered around some of the maps, ramps that lead to different elevations and need to be held at times, and other fun stuff like toxic rivers.

When I first looked at the screen shots I thought it was a straight reskin and would play exactly the same, but in practice I find it to be a different experience. I enjoy Panzer Corps but it has never hooked me the way this game has.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 5:07:56 PM

wodin

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I understand Ranger. If I enjoyed PC and the many game similar I would def buy it. It's the core gameplay as I said I don't like..the biggest bug bear is the abstract unit scale compared to map scale. In PC for instance seeing a Ack Ack unit taking up say one hex out of a total of four lets say which is supposed to be a City just breaks all immersion for me.

As for the multiple weapons..do you find you just click fire anyway and the closer you get the more weapons you can fire at the same time so it just feels the unit gets stronger the closer you get? Or is choosing the right weapon an important decision?

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 6:02:21 PM

ComradeP

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The lack of good documentation is something I don't really understand.

When I joined the Panzer Corps open beta in 2011, the developers were very responsive and could explain everything. As an aside, Kerensky started as a tester at the same time. He's now a team member.

On the Slitherine forum, there's a post explaining that one of the reason the documentation is limited is that the developers were still discussing the mechanics seemingly until the last moment. For a game that uses its own combat mechanics, not used by other games, good documentation is essential.

There not being good documentation makes it appear as if the game was rushed, the comment by a team member didn't help.

The hardcore Warhammer 40K crowd didn't like Rites of War, but I liked it for what it was: an enjoyable Panzer/Fantasy General-like game. Armageddon borrows heavily from Panzer Corps, but due to the changed mechanics, it's not as easy to understand as Rites of War was compared to Panzer/Fantasy General.

I initially intended to buy the game on release, but I'll wait a while now. The comments I'm seeing about the combat system not being clear and incomplete documentation make me a bit worried about how finished the rest of the game is.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 7:35:28 PM

Werewolf13

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I saw the product page, watched the trailer on STEAM. Hyped to get WH until I found out it used the PC engine.

Try as I might (and I've tried the PC DEMO twice over the last 2 years) I just cannot stand Panzer Corps. Don't get it. Don't have a clue why (well - I kind'a do but sometimes silence is golden) its so popular and probably never will.

Too bad...

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/27/2014 9:35:25 PM

TheWombat_matrixforum

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This game is fun, it has a lot of decent atmosphere, and the writing (needs some proofreading, but...) is cheesy fun, in the vein of a lot of the crappier Warhammer 40k novels. What it lacks is any meaningful documentation of units, stats, abilities, or mechanics. That part of it is only half-baked. There are no clear explanations of support, logistics (if any), differences in types of weapons, differences between factions, whatever. Sure, you can puzzle it out, and do, sort of, but it feels not quite ready for prime time. Still having fun with it, and I wouldn't avoid it because of these issues necessarily, but it's not up there with Flashpoint or anything.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/28/2014 5:41:09 AM

ComradeP

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Well, I guess I just didn't expect a "release it now, polish it later" game from the Lordz.

It almost makes me feel bad about not being in the beta, as they had a 3 month beta period or so, which should've been more than enough to get good tooltips, proofreading and documentation into the game, but it seems something went wrong somewhere.

Until that documentation is there, I won't buy it. As much as I would like to play another turn-based Warhammer-inspired game, I'm not going to encourage releasing games without good documentation by paying for them. It's a very common oversight in the business, and usually there's no legitimate reason why it's lacking. Often, it's due to poor planning or oversight. I've been in enough beta's to know that.

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/28/2014 6:22:15 AM

ImperialGrunt

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Warhammer 40K+Battlefield Academy=REAL AWESOMENESS!

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RE: So, what is this game like? - 11/28/2014 6:32:46 PM

Kuokkanen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranger33

I've played for several hours and I can safely say that this is not a simple reskin of Panzer Corps. The combat has a more tactical feel to it, with units engaging at multiple ranges with different weapons, with many more options for cover among the variety of terrain types.

*gasp*
Do you mean gameplay is closer to Battle Isle serie? I totally loved Battle Isle 3!

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheWombat

What it lacks is any meaningful documentation of units, stats, abilities, or mechanics. That part of it is only half-baked. There are no clear explanations of support, logistics (if any), differences in types of weapons, differences between factions, whatever. Sure, you can puzzle it out, and do, sort of, but it feels not quite ready for prime time.

Doesn't game itself provide unit statistics by moving mouse over it like in Panzer Corps? What comes to factions, hardcover WH40k game manual provides some overview and codexes have the rest.

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