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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/2/2014 2:47:39 PM

RedLancer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

What do all the circled numbers in each hex mean in the image in post #7?

Also, in the same post, you mentioned that "boxes with the parachute symbol in them indicate where an airborne division is slated to drop". I do not see any boxes with parachute symbols. Where are these, please?

The circled numbers are the air interdiction values - you can set air directives to impose interdiction impacting on unit movement through that hex. In Normandy the way to breakout is to attrit the Axis and prevent his resupply.

I think Shermanny is referring to the hand drawn black boxes with the 'm' symbol.

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Post #: 31

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/2/2014 4:44:46 PM

Numdydar

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The para symbol is hand drawn just SE of Cherbourg.

The circled numbers represent the amount of interdiction a hex has from 0-9. 9 being very bad for the Germans and 0 being just a small amount. Any hex without a circle has no interdiction on it at all so the Germans can move freely.

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Post #: 32

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/2/2014 4:45:22 PM

Numdydar

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Beat me by 5 mins lol

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Post #: 33

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/2/2014 6:07:01 PM

bairdlander2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Roberts

Suppose the German decides to "go big" in the West and temporarily pull armored units from the Eastern Front. Would it be possible (given the time it takes) to do so in response to an Allied invasion and then return units East in the later summer? How much would this allow the Russians to steamroll the map on their side?

I imagine working out the transfer of units will be as fun for the German player as it was for the originals.

I cant do that as the Axis has to spend admin points and I never have enough.Also if I left the Eastern front short units,SU takes Berlin faaster and game over.

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Post #: 34

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/2/2014 6:45:00 PM

Gilmer

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I enjoyed reading this. Thank you. I was especially intrigued by how you can plan out bombing routes to avoid flak or whatever you wish to avoid.

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Post #: 35

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/2/2014 7:23:18 PM

warshipbuilder

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quote:

I was especially intrigued by how you can plan out bombing routes to avoid flak or whatever you wish to avoid.

I see that you came in from the west and you exited to the west. Can I assume that you are not being beat up more by the flak as you do a 180 over the target? I would think that coming in form the north and exiting to the west would reduce your time over the target and time being shot at. Of course you can always fly above the flak with the commensurate loss of accuracy. If you loved yesterdays target gentlemen wait until you see today's!

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Post #: 36

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/3/2014 2:27:19 AM

CaptBeefheart

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Excellent and very helpful AAR!

Please note that Post #22 has the wrong screenshot (it's the same as the previous). If you could fix that, it would help increase our understanding of this game.

Cheers,
CC

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Post #: 37

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/3/2014 4:34:34 PM

Erik Rutins

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Here's a corrected image for Post #22:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 38

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/4/2014 3:27:12 AM

shermanny

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That's partly a question for intuition and partly a question for experimentation. Say we're in the May scenario. If I as the Allied player saw that I was scoring big time in EastFront VPs during any turn before I'd already made my invasion, I'd hurry the invasion forward. The Germans won't then be able to get their transferred divisions into the new theater in time to be on the beaches, or even to take up the slack as new garrisons so the old garrisons can move to the beaches.

I'd also put all my strategic bombers on railroad interdiction and railyard attacks in France. That way, the extra divisions would have a hard time reaching the battlefield in time to make a decisive difference. Meanwhile, their absence could be expected to make a big difference in the East.

So as with so many things in this game, both players have some sort of counter to what the other might do. Whether it will suffice? Experimentation. My guess is that it's a mistake to draw heavily on the East Front unless and until absolute disaster looms in the West. You don't want the Allies bouncing the Rhine and surging into the Ruhr in January, say.

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Post #: 39

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/4/2014 3:53:48 AM

shermanny

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The game goes on, and so we'll be keeping you posted as things proceed. Turn 12 sees a lunge across France toward Dunkirk, Calais, and Boulogne. Taking these ports should give me some security in the event of an Axis counterattack, and also should improve the supply situation. We can't do anything really ambitious just yet, because the forces now investing La Rochelle must finish the job there and then move East, and because the logistics net must be fixed. Railroads must be put back in service, railyards repaired, ports repaired.

In Italy, the surrounded mountain men of the Gebirgs Korps finally have to surrender. Here, too, it will take time to bring forces up the boot and face to face with the new German line, which runs straight across from Pisa to Rimini. Mountainous stuff, most of the way.

The picture shows shading for control, and shows, with upside-down green triangles, where I've now got depots. The way the rules work, Allied depots are automatically established at captured ports, while others can be built in cities connected by fixed-up rail to ports. It's a long truck drive to the front, which is why I need those ports and why I need to fix up the rails, connecting Lorient, Cherbourg, etc. to Paris and points East.

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/5/2014 4:17:18 PM

vonRocko

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Wow! Great AAR.
Thanks

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Post #: 41

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/5/2014 6:02:56 PM

marion61

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The airborne symbols he has in Normandy, written in hand. The circled numbers are the interdiction values for those hexes.

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/5/2014 10:50:49 PM

bairdlander2

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Im the opponent in this match.Im not using the east front box a lot.I have transferred 2 divisions and that's it.The Axis never has enough admin points,this represents Hitlers delay in sending in units right away to stop the Allies.I am spending all of them mobilizing units and trimming a lot of fat by disbanding hq's that don't have any divs.

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Post #: 43

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/6/2014 12:15:58 PM

henri51

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Roberts

Wow! What a detailed and illuminating AAR. Thanks for the excellent pics and write-up.

You give us a really nice sense of the flow of decision-making and action. It will be interesting to see how German players deal with the possibility of alternate invasion beaches.

Here's a question:

Suppose the German decides to "go big" in the West and temporarily pull armored units from the Eastern Front. Would it be possible (given the time it takes) to do so in response to an Allied invasion and then return units East in the later summer? How much would this allow the Russians to steamroll the map on their side?

I imagine working out the transfer of units will be as fun for the German player as it was for the originals.

Actually the Germans did bring some units from the East. The Herman Goering Division was brought to Italy, and some Panzer Divisions were refitting in the West. Of course in December the Russians pulled out a LOT of divisions from the East for the Battle of the Bulge.

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Post #: 44

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/6/2014 11:18:36 PM

shermanny

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Turn 13 was largely an administrative turn. There aren't nearly as many divisions in WITW as in WITE, which makes it easier to run through the mousing and clicking of moving the armies forward. La Rochelle fell and the divisions there turn East. The other two channel ports also fall, and the Allies move toward Brussels. In Italy, the forces besieging the German mountain units came free last turn and spent this turn moving North.

Some of my ports show a big black bar but nothing else. Why? Because they're not connected to the rail net and not hosting units, the game engine (quite sensibly) sees no reason to send them freight. This figures to change once I get them tied in to the main grid.

The picture shows a new screen. This one displays my recon level. Green means I own the terrain and know what's there. My guys. Light gray means I've had a good look at it from the air. And so on down to dark gray. Over on the other side of Europe, which is not visible in this screen grab, clear hexes indicate places the Soviets currently control. This will drift West over the course of the game and looking at it from time to time will help me gauge how much time remains in the game.

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/6/2014 11:33:23 PM

shermanny

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This turn was again a quick one. Allies move forward. It's a long ways across France by the standards of 1944, and also across Italy, South to North. So let's take a look at some of the finer details. Having really good combat odds does not of itself ensure that losses will be lopsidedly favorable to the attacker. Witness the little scrap between a German fortified zone and one regiment, on the one side, and six Allied divisions, on the other. It's an assault crossing of a river into a well fortified position. Allies have 25 times as many men, 25 times as much artillery, and more than 100 times as many armored fighting vehicles. Nevertheless, manpower losses clock in at about even. This hurts the Allies, in the VP department, worse than it hurts the Germans. But I can't just close down the Italian theater. Left to harden, it will eventually become a bristling mass of forts and regiments, dug in on good terrain.

In France, Allies bring forward their rail nets, march divisions past Paris, etc. A new line of scrimmage is forming, with Brussels and Verdun being the forward edges of what may be stoutly defended.

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Post #: 46

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/7/2014 12:04:21 AM

shermanny

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Turn 15 isn't as simple. Allies are moving to contact with the German lines in both France and Italy. The rule here is that you want to make some sort of dent in the line, if there's a weak point anywhere, even if you're not prepared for a full blown assault. Dents have to be covered by the defender before the next turn or they can be widened. The Germans probably aren't in a position to counterattack, given how much interdiction we have in the attack zone and given how their Panzer arm has had to be put into the line because the infantry is too weak to hold alone.

The little gray numbers are delay indicators. Unlike with WITE, hexes that are fought hard over before flipping to the phasing player's control are not easily exploited through. This simulates the passage of time. Allied units trying to exit these hexes would find that to some extent they're mired. A "2" roughly means that it takes two days worth of movement points to get clear of the hex. Or it takes two days of waiting around for the fight there to finish so you can move into it.

Anyhow, or penetration force attacks some of the hexes just beyond the point of penetration, clearing them of Axis units and fortifications and flipping control, without occupying. In a sense, I've got patrols out there, but nothing more.

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Post #: 47

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/7/2014 12:10:41 AM

bairdlander2

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I did force a British arm division to retreat in Italy,3 sided attack.Light mud and rain is starting in France.This match is far from over and I am disbanding air units,the air crews being put into infantry divs as well as VG units forming.

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/7/2014 12:11:30 AM

shermanny

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Here's the picture. Depot situation has improved, and next turn, Lille too will be connected.

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/7/2014 12:21:26 AM

shermanny

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In Italy, another dent, this one developing from the modest river breach made last turn. Other dents, or simple push-backs, along the Italian Adriatic coast. The Germans have evidently decided to economize in Italy, just as I have. Our two small armies now duke it out.

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/7/2014 8:35:33 PM

shermanny

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For turn 16, we have the opportunity to surround Brussels, in the North, and a couple of small German forces over by the port of Livorno, in Italy. The Germans have had to guard against several possibilities...a thrust weighted on the left, against Brussels and then Antwerp, a thrust up the middle, aimed at Aachen, or a thrust further South, aimed at Luxembourg. The Allied cannot afford to have fixed intentions. If something is well defended, look elsewhere for targets.

It seems that Antwerp isn't all that well defended. While its capture would bring me little closer to Berlin, it would help with the supply situation.

September will probably see some fairly serious fighting on the approaches to Germany. The Germans are out of room to backpedal, and the Allies are almost out of good weather.

What about airborne attacks? We started our game before a rules amendment that corrected the ahistorical ability of the Allies to put down mere regiments right on target and have them hold against any immediate German reaction, long enough for a relieving attack to fight its way through a week's worth of defenses. We decided on a house rule to right the balance, and the Allies won't be making air drops except in support of major river crossing efforts. This is a fair reflection of the actual use to which AB was put, and it's also a reasonable doctrine in the game in the light of the new rules, which penalize regimental-scale drops.

Our airborne divisions are mostly at work in the field, serving as crack infantry. As long as the front has some fluidity, who needs airborne?

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/7/2014 8:38:01 PM

shermanny

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And here's the situation in Italy. Pinning some Germans down and gaining some ground is all we really ask of this sector. Though if the Germans walk away from the theater, we'll be glad enough to walk into the resulting vacuum.

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/8/2014 11:33:20 PM

bairdlander2

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Ground losses so far,note the amount of Allied armour destroyed.

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/8/2014 11:45:40 PM

bairdlander2

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Don't let the ai choose air directives,for some reason ai wants to recon here

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/9/2014 12:03:07 AM

MrLongleg

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It seems to me that the game is quite easy for the Allies, on Aug 24th 1944 Paris was not yet liberated and you are standing at the gates of Brussels.

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/9/2014 1:03:38 AM

bairdlander2

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That's my fault playing as Axis.I have never played defense in WitE and am learning this game.Victory also depends on Allied casualty counts and his strategic bombing.I think this match will end in a draw

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/9/2014 1:06:13 AM

bairdlander2

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Here is the current standings

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RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/9/2014 1:08:11 AM

bairdlander2

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I lost a lot of points by not meeting garrison requirements,my opponent has lost a lot due to casualties.My hope is the upcoming winter will slow him down.

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 12/9/2014 2:09:47 AM >

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Post #: 58

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/9/2014 1:11:47 AM

bairdlander2

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He can take Berlin early,but the high cost in losses will give me a draw or minor victory.

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Post #: 59

RE: H2HMay1944forpublic - 12/9/2014 11:13:33 PM

shermanny

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Here's the news for turn 17. First, for a change, Italy. The picture shows the situation at the end of the turn, and the icons indicate where partisan attacks have damaged the German rail net, and where battles initiated by the Germans and the Allies have occurred. Where both took place, the black-and-red German symbol will appear. Allies are happy to have surrounded Rimini. We fondly imagine that the units there will be forced to surrender when next they are attacked. This will turn out not to be the case (posting is a bit backlogged) as the Germans can sometimes evacuate besieged ports by sea.

This is decent progress for Italy. There aren't that many more good defensive lines along the West coast, and the Germans seem to be rather thin in the East, as well. This is sensible of them; we really would rather face a very strong line here and a correspondingly weaker defense in France.