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RE: Good place to start... - 12/29/2014 2:59:31 PM

kool_kat

Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline

Gents:

I just started playing FPC-RS. My first couple games (NATO- The Pied Piper) I only checked B and E. But, IMHO having "emergency resupply is automatic" seemed a crutch for poor resupply planning... so in my future games I will only check E. Both NATO and the Soviet commanders should have a good idea of the battlefield terrain!

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)

Post #: 31

RE: Good place to start... - 12/30/2014 8:56:20 PM

Werewolf13

Posts: 511
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

The scenarios are not balanced for limited orders. They are balanced for unlimited orders. I'm not sure if some of them can be beaten with limited orders or not.

More NBC will show up in one of the next few campaigns I would think.

Good Hunting.

MR

Well hell - that would have been nice to know before now. Here I've been beating my head against a wall for the last 6 months playing with limited orders on - always - barely eeking out what I'd consider draws and minor victories on occasion and more often than not getting my ass handed to me and wondering how I got so stupid (wife told me 1) I was just getting old) - or if maybe 2) FPC:RS was just that good and you guys were mad scientists developing an AI to sell to the .gov and testing it out on us.

Personally I prefer explanation 2). Then again - I've been playing wargames since 1961 or so - so maybe I'm just getting old.

Either way - ya shud'a told us.

_____________________________

Freedom is not free! Nor should it be. For men being men will neither fight for nor value that which is free.

Michael Andress

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 32

RE: Good place to start... - 12/30/2014 9:13:05 PM

Werewolf13

Posts: 511
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matrix Ad Hype

Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm features an innovative asynchronous turn structure that models the OODA loop

That's the 1st sentence in the ad describing the game's features - the 1st sentence.

And it's a good one. Few, maybe no wargames try to sim the OODA loop. RS does it fairly well with the limited orders features. It's why I bought the game. It's what makes RS one of the best there is at the scale it simulates IMO.

And I honestly don't mind getting my ass handed to me by an AI - it happens often enough that over the years I've gotten used to it.

But to be told by a dev that the scenarios weren't really designed/balanced to be played with the primary selling feature of the game...

Argghghghghgh!

Might want to consider putting a caveat in the scenario descriptions shown in game that a scenario is not balanced for limited orders play and only those players who can take an ass whuppin' should play that way - especiall OLD FARTS like me!

< Message edited by Werewolf1326 -- 12/30/2014 10:14:36 PM >

_____________________________

Freedom is not free! Nor should it be. For men being men will neither fight for nor value that which is free.

Michael Andress

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 33

RE: Good place to start... - 12/30/2014 11:06:10 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326
Well hell - that would have been nice to know before now. Here I've been beating my head against a wall for the last 6 months playing with limited orders on - always - barely eeking out what I'd consider draws and minor victories on occasion and more often than not getting my ass handed to me and wondering how I got so stupid

Too funny. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to notice this!

(in reply to Werewolf13)

Post #: 34

RE: Good place to start... - 12/30/2014 11:36:16 PM

ultradave

Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline

I play limited orders all the time. Win some and lose some.

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to pzgndr)

Post #: 35

RE: Good place to start... - 12/30/2014 11:44:29 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

The scenarios are not balanced for limited orders. They are balanced for unlimited orders. I'm not sure if some of them can be beaten with limited orders or not.

More NBC will show up in one of the next few campaigns I would think.

Good Hunting.

MR

Well hell - that would have been nice to know before now. Here I've been beating my head against a wall for the last 6 months playing with limited orders on - always - barely eeking out what I'd consider draws and minor victories on occasion and more often than not getting my ass handed to me and wondering how I got so stupid (wife told me 1) I was just getting old) - or if maybe 2) FPC:RS was just that good and you guys were mad scientists developing an AI to sell to the .gov and testing it out on us.

Personally I prefer explanation 2). Then again - I've been playing wargames since 1961 or so - so maybe I'm just getting old.

Either way - ya shud'a told us.

What I did tell you was that I consider a draw a win!!!

I play the scenarios until I get a draw. Which for the rest of you isn't all that hard because you play the game all the time. I only play the game while I'm playtesting the scenarios or on the other odd occasion. So, with that in mind, when you play with limited orders that should tighten up the game to where it is a bit tougher.

As to having told you...we did tell you. Limited orders are an OPTION. Options are not normal game play they are there to give you options to normal game play. That's exactly how we look at them.

But just in case, are there any other terms in the game we need to explain at this time??? Because my wife must know your wife and I have gotten the same comments you've gotten!

And we really couldn't stand for them to have a number 3. on that list!

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Werewolf13)

Post #: 36

RE: Good place to start... - 12/30/2014 11:49:08 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

But to be told by a dev that the scenarios weren't really designed/balanced to be played with the primary selling feature of the game...

Gentlemen, Limited Orders is an OPTION. Options are there to change the basic gameplay. In this case to tighten up the scenarios when they are too easy for you. I understand that you think I should have tested them each and everyone for all possible options in the game. Which is totally unrealistic, nobody does that before release, you wouldn't have seen this game to being playing it for two more years yet, we would have all stopped playing the game before that time and moved on to another project.

quote:

Argghghghghgh!

Might want to consider putting a caveat in the scenario descriptions shown in game that a scenario is not balanced for limited orders play and only those players who can take an ass whuppin' should play that way - especiall OLD FARTS like me!

The fact that Limited Orders is an option says exactly that. The level the scenarios were playtested to allows for Limited Orders to do just what it's intended to do. To tighten up the AI's gameplay with an OPTION to the gamer to decide if they want it to be tougher or not.

Best of luck with your playing style against the AI or an opponent!!

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 12/31/2014 12:51:29 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Werewolf13)

Post #: 37

RE: Good place to start... - 12/31/2014 1:16:50 AM

tide15

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/30/2014
Status: offline

Just got my butt handed to me playing the Germans in The Witches Couldron. Good thing I kept all those options checked

I'll have to figure out another approach to the scenario.

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 38

RE: Good place to start... - 12/31/2014 10:18:41 AM

kool_kat

Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline

quote:

Mad Russian
This game comes with a basic game with optional play modes available. While you may play all your games in one of those play modes the game must work without any of those selected. Since that's the main goal for ALL GAMERS playing the game, and not just a select few, the scenarios are balanced for the basic game.

quote:

Mad Russian
The game is balanced for the basic game. The limited player option is just that, an option, to make game play tougher. It is not the main way we foresee the game being played.

OK, I am confused.

There is a list of Game Play Options. You must put a check mark next to the desired optional play modes. You state that the game must work without any of those selected.

Game Play Option 'C' - 'Limited Staff' rule is NOT in effect.

So, with NO Game Play Options selected, the Limited Staff rule IS in effect and is part of the basic game - correct?

Therefore, should not all scenarios have been play tested with the Limited Staff rule?

Help me out here.

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 39

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RE: Good place to start...