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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> WitW or WitE

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WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 11:53:02 AM

MrClock

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From: Milan - Italy
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Do you think it is better that I buy WitE that is a game more tested or I'll jump directly in WitW?

Post #: 1

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 12:27:16 PM

HMSWarspite

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From: Bristol, UK
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The 2 are very different (obviously!) but not just in theatre and hence events. WitW has a much more sophisticated logistics and air system. Also, I have not spotted any bug reports on it yet. As to game balance etc, it will be a year or 2 before a consensus will form on that. Even then (IMHO) it will only matter with die hard real competitive gamers. I will happily play the AI with self imposed 'realism' limits on (for example, I would never deliberately sacrifice a force for a gamey advantage, whereas a die hard player would (points are the only thing that matters - like chess, the bits are not real men...).

Which front do you like more: East - big sweeping offensives, huge armies, 1941-45. Or West - smaller forces, more flexibility, more air influence, 43-45. And as for the game, based on playing WitW, I am already finding the logistic approximations in WitE a limitation. In WitE, I only make supply state decisions based on 'will I be cut off?'. In WitW am already basing them on 'if I move more troops there will I be able to supply them? As in port capacity, rail state etc,. which is far more interesting to me.

_____________________________

I have a cunning plan, My Lord

(in reply to MrClock)

Post #: 2

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 12:28:26 PM

rjs28023

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From: Wisconsin
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I depends if you like playing simulations on the Western Front or the Eastern Front. Both games are in great shape, and any items that need to be changed/improved will be corrected in ongoing patches to either product.

After playing WITE for years I now prefer WITW as it has a better Air Game and a more realistic logistical system.

That said, I still enjoy WITE and look forward to it being moved ahead to the WITW standard. WITE is easier to grasp than WITW which is a more involved game.

Randy

(in reply to MrClock)

Post #: 3

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 12:33:12 PM

HMSWarspite

Posts: 1401
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From: Bristol, UK
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Oh, and most of the complaints so far can be summarised as:
- its not WitP for Europe (It was never described as if it would be, and I think people need to read the Med up because forces were tiny and would not work well in WitP style GAme - a 6 merchant convoy being intercepted makes delays a land offensive significantly, anyone?
- Its not the whole war in west Europe (it was never describes as if it would be...)
- no production (there is always that chorus - GG does military simulations not economic ones, and there are huge issues with badly implemented production systems)

There will be more, but the above gives the flavour

_____________________________

I have a cunning plan, My Lord

(in reply to HMSWarspite)

Post #: 4

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 1:32:07 PM

Smirfy

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If you like playing the Germans and with little effort want to do better than what would be historically possible then I would go WITE. If you like playing the Russians and can put up with meaningless features and unwieldy management and forego gamey tactics you can get an interesting game up until the end of 42 then becomes monotonous WITE is for you. If you like playing the Allies and having more logistics or a Germany against the odds like me then WITW is for you. (That was the theory behind my purchase of WITW)

< Message edited by Smirfy -- 12/13/2014 2:34:30 PM >

(in reply to HMSWarspite)

Post #: 5

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 2:53:17 PM

Gorforlin

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Joined: 2/22/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

If you like playing the Germans and with little effort want to do better than what would be historically possible
then I would go WITE. If you like playing the Russians and can put up with meaningless features and
unwieldy management and forego gamey tactics you can get an interesting game up until the end of 42
then becomes monotonous WITE is for you. If you like playing the Allies and having more logistics
or a Germany against the odds like me then WITW is for you. (That was the theory behind my purchase of WITW)

Being vet of WitE and many other games, those gamey tactics were not fond by the gaming public until 6+ months after release and many not until a few months ago.

As with any new game release " gamey tactics" are discovered by the more "creative" players. Very early after release and don't leak out to general player base for months, making some players seem much more highly skilled at playing.
The gamey tactics are by design in almost all cases. The issue is not the players, but the design having loopholes.

2by3 has a very long track record of closing the loop holes as they come to light.

I am 100% sure there are design flaws with WitW, but these flaws are far fewer then WitE and hopefully will be closed withen months and not years like WitE

(in reply to Smirfy)

Post #: 6

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 3:18:06 PM

jnpoint

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I don't know what you like the most, but I would recommend WitW. I find it better in all aspects. I also have WitE, but never learned to love it. There are no production in WitW as someone mentioned, but that's the same for WitE.

< Message edited by jnpoint -- 12/13/2014 4:18:56 PM >

(in reply to Gorforlin)

Post #: 7

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 3:33:50 PM

atheory

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As hinted at before, it comes down to your own bias.

WitE - German offensive capability, Russian Offensive Capability, simplistic air and supply system. Grand maneuvers possible. Nothing makes me happier than surrounding a bunch of Russian units and destroying them.

WitW - Allies Offensive capability, German mostly defensive throughout, new air and logistics system (quite amazing) - You can win as Germans via the VP system in place.

WitW is new and shiny, but every one has a "side" they prefer playing. What's yours?

Another solution - go give some plasma/blood and use that money to help buy BOTH titles, problem solved!

(in reply to jnpoint)

Post #: 8

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 9:22:23 PM

MrClock

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From: Milan - Italy
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I chose WitE.
The next year (with the expansion afrika korps) surely I'll take WitW.

< Message edited by MrClock -- 12/13/2014 10:23:11 PM >

(in reply to atheory)

Post #: 9

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 9:36:33 PM

Baelfiin

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WitE is a great game that only gets better and better.

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to MrClock)

Post #: 10

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/13/2014 9:48:14 PM

Qwixt

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But how is the solo WitE experience as Russians compared to Allies in WitW? Smirfy brought up monotonous after 1942 as russians.

(in reply to Baelfiin)

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RE: WitW or WitE - 12/14/2014 2:59:21 AM

Numdydar

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With the latest patch (1.8) thos have been addressed. Even better, settings can be adjusted by the player to make it a slower or faster pace for either side

(in reply to Qwixt)

Post #: 12

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/14/2014 11:23:33 AM

Smirfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwixt

But how is the solo WitE experience as Russians compared to Allies in WitW? Smirfy brought up monotonous after 1942 as russians.

I have not played the 1.08 quoted below but I would be amazed if any patch could sort out the manual and game mechanics monotony of playing the Russians post 1942. WitE looks beautiful and is an excellent database and though production works well distribution and realism does not. You never find yourself equiping units with the mutitude of Marques either side were forced to. The game has lots off lovely HQ's and Leaders with pages of mechanics on their use but at the end of the day you can run the whole show from STAVKA without bothering with them which killed my enthusiasm for the game stone dead. As the Germans this is not so much a factor as they are fun until you realiase 1/ You want a game that represents the dilemnas the Werhmacht faced and 2/ Realiasing 1 does not exist in game replay as that side beyond Barbarossa is pointless. If however you love playing the Germans (and who would not with all their cool stuff, commanders and atmospheric written work) to the detriment of any realism (Ie if you believe Sea Lion would have worked no sweat) you will have a great game. The manual monotony of playing the game is not as severe playing the Germans

In the Gulags however camp guards forced prisonsers to play WiTE post 1942 as a form of torture. Like I said the Russians are great fun provided you dont use gamey tactics and act a bit like Stalin during the opening months of Barbaossa, The AI does a credible Barbarossa. The chronic monotony however soon develops after the winter . Russian Divisions have to be expanded to Corps manually which soon looses you the will to live, Reinforcements come on all the way across the map. The air units look fun until you have to orginize them the airbase system being completely fubar along with air. Then you bother to get everything (and there is alot for you to bother with) together pull off some majestic strategy making Stalingrad look like a skirmish and a turn later the AI line the Germans up again with no appreciable effect rinse and repeat to 1945, You can experiment with taking Rumania and the oil in 42 (if you are gamey) or 43 again no effect on the German economy that translates to gaming experience. Logistics in general are piss poor and movement seems totally unrealistic. But as I said none of this really matters and you can run the Russians from STAVKA killing all immersion

< Message edited by Smirfy -- 12/14/2014 12:54:12 PM >

(in reply to Qwixt)

Post #: 13

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/14/2014 11:53:40 AM

zakblood

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if you have neither, i'd go for WITW, as it has been made from the start to be more friendlier to the newer players i hear, as i have WITE and can say without any doubt that's it's hard and has a steep learning curve to master

(in reply to Smirfy)

Post #: 14

RE: WitW or WitE - 12/14/2014 6:34:12 PM

PaulWRoberts

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I put WITE aside some time ago, but playing WITW has got me interested in the system again.

Aside from the logistics and air games added in WITW, to what degree have under-the-hood improvements (AI, modelling, etc) developed for WITW been ported to WITE in patches? (The latest major patch to WITE (1.08) came out just a few weeks ago, and there was another small update just last week.)

Is there some sense in which (air and logistics aside) WITE has really not been left behind but has benefited from WITW's development? Or does it just feel too weird going back east after beginning to learn WITW?

Informed opinions appreciated! Thanks.

(in reply to zakblood)

Post #: 15