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Groundhog Day! - No NJP - 1/11/2015 12:55:13 PM

Mike McCreery

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The Japanese have attacked Pearl Harbor!!! Wait, didnt this happen before?

Scenario 2 DBB against my honored opponent NJP

The first turn opens with the typical attack on Pearl Harbor. The bright points is that on day 1 no battleships or any other major warships were sunk but all took significant damage. The other bright point is that the POW escaped harm.

Will NJP stay for day 2?? The last game I attacked his carriers with my surface fleets and gave him quite a fright!

What is the best tactics for auto victory for the Japanese? He is promising something special.

I am guessing he goes in hard for the kuriles and north pacific. Maybe he makes a run at taking pearl. I am betting it is less likely he goes for India this game given the bruising I gave him on the last one but you never know.

What killed his last game in my opinion is that he went after too much too quickly and ended up getting bogged down in certain areas for too long and it cost him. My guess is that his attacks will be much more focused on one or two areas.

Not sure if I will do as detailed an AAR or something different.

Suggestions and hypothesis welcome.

It will proably take me a week to even churn the 1st turn out. New Zealand took me hours last night alone! I KNOW!!

< Message edited by Wargmr -- 1/25/2015 3:40:58 AM >

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/11/2015 3:22:47 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

The Japanese have attacked Pearl Harbor!!! Wait, didnt this happen before?

There's a twisted part of me that wants to make an AAR comprising of bits taken from everyone else's AAR's.

Just to see if anyone notices...

Good luck!

< Message edited by mind_messing -- 1/11/2015 4:23:17 PM >

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/11/2015 8:35:26 PM

BBfanboy

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Go Team Allies!
For my part, I do not want to see details of every combat posted, only those that have some kind of significance in the scheme of things, or are very odd.
Your thoughts on what you are seeing from your opponent and your own general plans are always read. Your summary of the PH strike in the first post of the AAR is a good example of giving us a sense of what happened and what you are thinking.

As an alternative to an Aleutians/NW North America strategy for points, I suggest he could be thinking of strategic bombing of Australian cities as others have recently done. Taking Tasmania, Lord Howe Island and Townsville would put all the important Australian industry at risk. New Caledonia would need to be taken to secure his flank. Anyway, that is the first thing that popped into my head when you mentioned his plans for a surprise.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/12/2015 8:25:42 PM

Bif1961

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You Strategic and Operational plans would be nice to know. What you think he is doing and how you plan on countering his moves. You didn't mention HRs. I am always interested in what agrrements opponets have made before the war begins as it helps me decide on my future HRs. More like what people would see in the headlines as war news is released might be an interesting AAR style. Good luck and happy hunting.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/12/2015 10:39:31 PM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

You Strategic and Operational plans would be nice to know. What you think he is doing and how you plan on countering his moves. You didn't mention HRs. I am always interested in what agrrements opponets have made before the war begins as it helps me decide on my future HRs. More like what people would see in the headlines as war news is released might be an interesting AAR style. Good luck and happy hunting.

I am not a big fan of HR's so the less the better.

Ours are that you have to spend PP to buy out restricted units crossing borders. And we have a plane height limit of 20K in 1941/42 25K in 1943 and 31K in 44 & 45. He has also asked that I not night bomb airfields as it seems overly unbalanced right now.

Defensively I am going to sir robin a bit more and not try to take him on so much in India and Australia. Since we are only on turn 1 there is no way to know where he is going to go nor what I have to counter. I am working slowly around the map planning on defending everything. I even have a plan for Tasmania.

Strategically I have a plan but feel it is too soon to discuss it. Also, given his opening things could change radically.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/12/2015 11:03:49 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

Ours are that you have to spend PP to buy out restricted units crossing borders.

Personally, given the above HR, I would love to see a grab at Canada.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 1:23:26 PM

Mike McCreery

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Last game I sortied my available surface combat ships and engaged NJP on the day after Pearl Harbor. The results were less than spectacular but I did score some hits and caused my opponent to do a double take. I am giving a less than 50% chance that NJP stays to attack PH for day 2 even though day 1 was disappointing (no BB's sunk).

There is a greater chance in my mind that he will either leave with haste or more likely try to set up some sort of trap for any ships attempting an attack. The third option is that he never leaves and takes over PH.

What this means is that the chance of me actually intercepting his fleet is quite low and the chance of me taking collateral damage from trying is quite high. Therefore, in my opinion a turtling or retreating move would be the best option.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 1:32:14 PM

Mike McCreery

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The battleships took a solid hit across the board. Take 20-30 flotation damage off and you have an approximation of major damage. It is going to take a while to get these babies up and running again. I think there is a trick to helping ship repair, if anyone could share it with me that would be really helpful!

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 3:02:26 PM

crsutton

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Thing is, you did not lose a single one which makes for a horrible Japanese first day. Does not matter if they are heavily damaged. I find that you really don't need them until the counter offensive starts and that will be in a year or two. I don't like to sling them around in the first months of the war as they are too vulnerable. But I will say the damage is pretty heavy across the board. There is not one of those ships that will be back in action in 1942.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 3:18:48 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

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I would put them on pierside and forget they exist until they reach 0 sys damage; keep a couple on shipyard if there is free space.

I don't know if I would try to move them to the west coast before they get below 40 float damage... which of course will take a long time

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 3:34:03 PM

Lowpe

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Agree, just parks those battleships somewhere safe, priortize a few for the shipyard if there is space after fixing the cruisers, destroyers, etc., and just save those battlewagons for much later when they can be properly protected. Allies with a full compliment of battleships in 43 and beyond is simply scary...hard to see 6 torpedo hits and none down and out.

Torps are nerfed somewhat in this mod, correct?

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 3:51:03 PM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Agree, just parks those battleships somewhere safe, priortize a few for the shipyard if there is space after fixing the cruisers, destroyers, etc., and just save those battlewagons for much later when they can be properly protected. Allies with a full compliment of battleships in 43 and beyond is simply scary...hard to see 6 torpedo hits and none down and out.

Torps are nerfed somewhat in this mod, correct?

As far as I know it is DBB mod scenario #2 but I could be wrong... LOL!!! I do notice that my cargo capacity seems off by some percentage, possibly 30%. Lots of 6's and 7's in the sizes.

There is some way to help heal major damage at bases. I saw a mention of it in an AAR before. You check either port or ship damage and when the repair level rises to a certain point you do something that reduces repair time. Anyone know what I am talking about? Maybe it only works for small bases. And yeah, those babies are parked for a long time. I dont like to move BB's with more than 30% flotation damage.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 3:53:26 PM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Thing is, you did not lose a single one which makes for a horrible Japanese first day. Does not matter if they are heavily damaged. I find that you really don't need them until the counter offensive starts and that will be in a year or two. I don't like to sling them around in the first months of the war as they are too vulnerable. But I will say the damage is pretty heavy across the board. There is not one of those ships that will be back in action in 1942.

You are correct sir!! I threw a couple into the shipyard for a moment to check and one had a repair time of 507 days... YIKES!!

What will happen is that the systems damage and some of the major flotation damage will be repaired at Pearl and then the ships go back to Seattle or Alameda for new paint.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 4:39:16 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Thing is, you did not lose a single one which makes for a horrible Japanese first day. Does not matter if they are heavily damaged. I find that you really don't need them until the counter offensive starts and that will be in a year or two. I don't like to sling them around in the first months of the war as they are too vulnerable. But I will say the damage is pretty heavy across the board. There is not one of those ships that will be back in action in 1942.

You are correct sir!! I threw a couple into the shipyard for a moment to check and one had a repair time of 507 days... YIKES!!

What will happen is that the systems damage and some of the major flotation damage will be repaired at Pearl and then the ships go back to Seattle or Alameda for new paint.

Don't forget the east coast yards!

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 5:21:19 PM

witpqs

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quote:

I do notice that my cargo capacity seems off by some percentage, possibly 30%. Lots of 6's and 7's in the sizes.

That likely means it is the -C variant with reduced cargo capacity for most ship types. The reductions were not quite across the board because they had to account for things like xAKE/AKE rearming capacities and maybe some other things that don't come to mind at the moment.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 6:05:58 PM

ny59giants

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Did Arizona sink?? She's missing from your list. The big thing will be how much major flotation damage each ship has. I just got two to WC in early March '42 where they will be until late '42. Two will repair in Pearl and two more need more time before they can head east.

Prince of Wales - I try to save her as she has the best early war AA platform and is in my SC TF that leads my Allied "Death Star" around the Pacific through most of '42.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 9:00:31 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Agree, just parks those battleships somewhere safe, priortize a few for the shipyard if there is space after fixing the cruisers, destroyers, etc., and just save those battlewagons for much later when they can be properly protected. Allies with a full compliment of battleships in 43 and beyond is simply scary...hard to see 6 torpedo hits and none down and out.

Torps are nerfed somewhat in this mod, correct?

As far as I know it is DBB mod scenario #2 but I could be wrong... LOL!!! I do notice that my cargo capacity seems off by some percentage, possibly 30%. Lots of 6's and 7's in the sizes.

There is some way to help heal major damage at bases. I saw a mention of it in an AAR before. You check either port or ship damage and when the repair level rises to a certain point you do something that reduces repair time. Anyone know what I am talking about? Maybe it only works for small bases. And yeah, those babies are parked for a long time. I dont like to move BB's with more than 30% flotation damage.

Naval HQs and USN BFs have naval support that helps, but what you are describing sounds like what others have suggested - don't overstack your shipyard and just park the lower priority ships to remove system damage for now. This will help when it comes time to move them elsewhere for full repairs, or if they remain in PH for repairs, it reduces the amount of work the SY has to do. Note that at a big base like PH most major engineering damage can be repaired without use of the SY. Only major flotation damage and some device repair (like a gun turret) require the SY facilities.

You probably have some damage to your SY which will require the usual 1000 supply tithe to repair each point. If it looks tight for the available supply you could put an xAKL on auto-convoy to haul resources from Hilo to feed PH industry. Supply from USA may be delayed if KB heads that way.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 9:03:19 PM

BBfanboy

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Interesting thing in the CR - 12 Zeros shot down by flak but only 2 Kates and 4 Vals. Looks like some of the Zeros were set on airfield attack?
I don't recall seeing escorting fighters get shot down by flak - have you?

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 9:47:32 PM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Agree, just parks those battleships somewhere safe, priortize a few for the shipyard if there is space after fixing the cruisers, destroyers, etc., and just save those battlewagons for much later when they can be properly protected. Allies with a full compliment of battleships in 43 and beyond is simply scary...hard to see 6 torpedo hits and none down and out.

Torps are nerfed somewhat in this mod, correct?

As far as I know it is DBB mod scenario #2 but I could be wrong... LOL!!! I do notice that my cargo capacity seems off by some percentage, possibly 30%. Lots of 6's and 7's in the sizes.

There is some way to help heal major damage at bases. I saw a mention of it in an AAR before. You check either port or ship damage and when the repair level rises to a certain point you do something that reduces repair time. Anyone know what I am talking about? Maybe it only works for small bases. And yeah, those babies are parked for a long time. I dont like to move BB's with more than 30% flotation damage.

Naval HQs and USN BFs have naval support that helps, but what you are describing sounds like what others have suggested - don't overstack your shipyard and just park the lower priority ships to remove system damage for now. This will help when it comes time to move them elsewhere for full repairs, or if they remain in PH for repairs, it reduces the amount of work the SY has to do. Note that at a big base like PH most major engineering damage can be repaired without use of the SY. Only major flotation damage and some device repair (like a gun turret) require the SY facilities.

You probably have some damage to your SY which will require the usual 1000 supply tithe to repair each point. If it looks tight for the available supply you could put an xAKL on auto-convoy to haul resources from Hilo to feed PH industry. Supply from USA may be delayed if KB heads that way.

Damnit, he did get the Arizona... Must have been in between turns and I did not catch it.

Kudo's, good eye!

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/13/2015 10:26:47 PM

wdolson

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When the flotation damage is low enough that it is safe to move them to the mainland, if you have spare capacity in the yards you can set the priority to High and they will repair quicker. However, it doubles the load on the shipyard, so you probably don't want much else in there.

Bill

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/14/2015 8:10:47 PM

Bif1961

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Every Battleship ship was listed in the attack as having heavy fires but in your dmage list non had any fires at all. Did every sailor aboard have super soakers?

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/14/2015 9:43:39 PM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Every Battleship ship was listed in the attack as having heavy fires but in your dmage list non had any fires at all. Did every sailor aboard have super soakers?

It is a freaking miracle but all the fires are out. I think NJP scored the same amount of BB's sunk last game but I could be off by 1. Last game one burned for 4 days until it was scuttled at 98% fire.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/15/2015 11:44:27 PM

Mike McCreery

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Musings of a fool
The differences...

There is such a world of difference between planning this game and the last game. I had played at least 3 games against the AI but they were relatively easy so no digging was required into the game. So, when I took on my first major DBB game it was all new. I knew what bombers were and what fighters were and that I had to run away from the phillipines as fast as possible.

I want this game to be as different from that as 3D chess from regular chess.

I didnt understand how the pilot system worked at the beginning of the last game and finally came to understand it completely in about the middle of it. This game will include an intense focus on airgroups and not just the groups but the commands and support units.

In the last game, HQ's were an afterthought. I want them to be front and center in this game. Also, I made a large mistake with shipping and huge numbers of engineers sat forgotten on the docks in mid to late 42.

Another functional change I want to make is what I am calling capillary shipping. I have not used the smaller barges and other ships to move transport and/or non-essential troops before and want to insert this layer of shipping between the enemy and my larger ships. I hope this causes less point loss in shipping and frustrates my opponent in naval combat.

I want to utilize the support ships in a more mobile and advanced role allowing deep strikes with my naval fleets and much more active hunting of his naval forces.

In many ways I want to move in both directions at once. Learning to move armies as combined groups and not just grabbing a division and an artillery unit because they are in the same base. So more of a strategic level of organization while utilizing the smaller ships and air forces that I somewhat ignored in my first full term game.

Another thing I am going to try to accomplish is to treat my air transports as an air-mobile group rather than just something to tote supplies to stranded armies. Bombers can drop supplies... That just created a thought, I can use outdated bomber groups to ferry supplies saving my transports.

I want to separate the forces in terms of duty as well. The army air force protects the bases and conducts land bombing. Th e marine forces are primarily escort for shipping. And the navy forces exist to kill his navy.

Overall I want to practice advanced tactics while optimizing efficiency and planning.

As for the AAR, I do not plan on posting every turn as in the last one. It was useful at times for me to go back and check certain things but not often enough to warrant it being repeated.

In terms of my opponent NJP. He is very good. His strength is his navy at least against me although he coordinates his air forces as well. What I found to be his weakness in the last game was his inability to focus on multiple targets at once. Now, this could certainly be affected by game mechanics, etc. However, it seems he concentrates on the last spot of invasion/attack to the detriment of possibly something more important nearby.

This allowed me to make great progress punching through from Port Moresby to Merauke in a deep strike in mid-43' It worked well when I decided to move into the south Phillipines later that year or in early 44. And it worked in multiple places on the coast of China and off Japan.

I will use this information to plan my first series of attacks between May and December of 1942 depending on the pace of the game.

In the last game and all the AI games I have played I have focused on taking territory. That is cool but you dont win the game that way. What I want to try to do is manage an active battle front in my favor rather than just try to push for more stuff. Last game was about pushing on every front as much as possible and exploiting the weak spots. This game should be more about defining 3-4 axis of attack and driving into the strategic weak areas to win the game smart rather than hard.

Turn 2 has been 5 days in planning now. Russia was easy of course. I spent a lot of time on Australia and new Zealand.

I have a really advanced plan for Java. Instead of all running to the mountain stronghold in the south they are all going to run to the mountain stronghold in the north because it cannot be bombarded by naval ships.

Diego garcia was a big deal in the last game. NJP lost at least a cruiser there and had other ships damaged and he never took it. I am not sure whether to defend it or not. I think that evacuating Ceylon including the AA regiment is a good idea.

India was a mess for both of us last game. In terms of myself, a lot of british and indian units got beat up for almost nothing. On NJP's side he never managed to take any of the large cities in India and I think it was largely a loss for him in terms of supply and fuel.

I would like to try to defend Madras, Calcutta, Bombay and Karachi in India if possible like last game. However, he has more forces and I think that if I try this tactic I may lose 2 or 3 of them because I am spread too thin. What I do know is that NJP will attack a different way than last time but I have no idea how.

My philosophy is to have at least a token force in every base that has industry or oil as to give a chance for it to be damaged upon capture. I also want to try to bomb any industry in range much sooner in this game than last one. For some reason it makes me feel bad... LOL!

These are just some of the things I am thinking about while prepping turn 2.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/16/2015 7:05:55 AM

BBfanboy

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You have written yourself a tall order!
But you are correct - planning from the get-go makes a huge difference to how efficiently you can bring forces to bear. It is very easy to send a unit away from its HQ and never get them together again. Setting objectives and allocating forces is crucial to having an organized operation.

Looking forward to your work! Good luck.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/17/2015 1:45:36 AM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

The Japanese have attacked Pearl Harbor!!! Wait, didnt this happen before?

There's a twisted part of me that wants to make an AAR comprising of bits taken from everyone else's AAR's.

Just to see if anyone notices...

Good luck!

This would never work here. People pick apart these posts like tech buzzards :P

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/25/2015 2:43:15 AM

Mike McCreery

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December 8, 1941

The Allies start off the night with an attack on Takao. I have been called aggressive before, I have no idea why... Not the transports I was hoping for but my Sub Commanders will thank me in the future ;]

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/25/2015 2:53:53 AM

Mike McCreery

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Betty's hit Hong Kong harbor from long range and hit the light transports loading fuel.

Every ship I know I am going to lose is loading up fuel to reduce the amount left for Japan. Come to think of it, every ship I think is going to live is doing the same thing :P

I also shut off production to Miri, Palembang, Medan. It may not be much but every 1000 gallons of fuel he doesnt have is another delay he must suffer through to get to his objectives. And I dont expect him to be easy on me this game.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/25/2015 2:59:08 AM

Mike McCreery

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A carrier attack takes out the battleship Legaspi...

Wait Wut??

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/25/2015 3:04:34 AM

Mike McCreery

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I take a bunch of cheap pot shots trying to hit light industry and pretty much fail miserably. 1 hit.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/25/2015 3:08:36 AM

Mike McCreery

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Japanese capture Khota Baru and Tay Tay.

Overall a pretty quiet 2nd turn.

His carrier fleet pulled back to 8 hexes off of Pearl Harbor which is the logical counter to what I did last time which is why I didnt pursue him this time.

My guess is he is opting for either a strong Australia SE pacific thrust or PH. We will see within a few days which one seems more likely.

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