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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 2:06:43 AM

Mike McCreery

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Not sure if NJP forgot or hoped I had moved but a 2nd day of air assaults on Shilka is wiped out.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 3:47:09 AM

BBfanboy

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Do you mean ground assaults at Shilka? Or were there air assaults as well?

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 9:51:20 AM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Do you mean ground assaults at Shilka? Or were there air assaults as well?

I should have said airborne assault :P

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 12:26:44 PM

Lowpe

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Following this with much interest!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 12/31/2015 1:39:24 PM >

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 12:35:13 PM

Mike McCreery

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Strategies...

The game differs in reality in that the Russians would not have sat around for a week and allow their supply lines to be cut in multiple places. And Russian units in strategic mode would not magically transport themselves 50 miles away from the rail lines only to have to take 2 weeks to walk back to them.

I am frustrated by certain mechanics at the moment and it certainly gives Japan a huge advantage RE Russia. Give the fact that even though the Russians are threatened with losing 1/2 of their land mass and most of their domestic armies, there are no emergency reinforcements and nothing substantial to help out until May of 1945, over a year away.

On the flip side, I believe the reason that you do not see many actions in Russia by Japan is that in reality the resources and industry to be gained is negligible and the cost usually outweighs the returns.

Nevertheless, the game is what it is. And now Japan is invested in a huge land war yet again. I need to figure out how to use this to my advantage.

Strategically I have a big decision to make. I am manipulating the game rules just like NJP is in that I have not crossed over to activate Kamakazi's.

Now I need to decide whether to swing west in an attempt to completely isolate the oil centers or charge north to attack Japan more quickly.

My gut tells me to focus on the oil centers but my overall strategy was to cut the board in half via puerto princessa toward Cam Ran Bay. I can attack the oil centers without activating his kamakazi's. His air war is much better in this game so attacking the production makes sense rather than pushing forward and giving him another advantage.

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< Message edited by Wargmr -- 12/31/2015 1:37:03 PM >

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 1:29:33 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

Strategies...

The game differs in reality in that the Russians would not have sat around for a week and allow their supply lines to be cut in multiple places. And Russian units in strategic mode would not magically transport themselves 50 miles away from the rail lines only to have to take 2 weeks to walk back to them.

I am frustrated by certain mechanics at the moment and it certainly gives Japan a huge advantage RE Russia. Give the fact that even though the Russians are threatened with losing 1/2 of their land mass and most of their domestic armies, there are no emergency reinforcements and nothing substantial to help out until May of 1945, over a year away.

On the flip side, I believe the reason that you do not see many actions in Russia by Japan is that in reality the resources and industry to be gained is negligible and the cost usually outweighs the returns.

Nevertheless, the game is what it is. And now Japan is invested in a huge land war yet again. I need to figure out how to use this to my advantage.

Strategically I have a big decision to make. I am manipulating the game rules just like NJP is in that I have not crossed over to activate Kamakazi's.

Now I need to decide whether to swing west in an attempt to completely isolate the oil centers or charge north to attack Japan more quickly.

My gut tells me to focus on the oil centers but my overall strategy was to cut the board in half via puerto princessa toward Cam Ran Bay. I can attack the oil centers without activating his kamakazi's. His air war is much better in this game so attacking the production makes sense rather than pushing forward and giving him another advantage.

Having trouble understanding why your Russian forces did nothing for a week and how units teleported away from rail lines.

I'm playing a Focus Pacific scenario with Russia active from game start.

I'm finding the Russians to be a juggernaut the Japanese cannot contain.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 1:36:57 PM

Encircled

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Its a bold move by your opponent.

He's got a plan, and the a lot of units to use if he's neutralised China.

Be interesting to see what he is aiming for.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 2:40:26 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Having trouble understanding why your Russian forces did nothing for a week and how units teleported away from rail lines.

I'm playing a Focus Pacific scenario with Russia active from game start.

I'm finding the Russians to be a juggernaut the Japanese cannot contain.

Allies can't move Russian troops until there is a border violation. So Wargamer spotted the Japanese movement a week ago, but could not move, other than changing op status, until the violation actually occurred.

Remember, Hans you are playing against the AI that didn't have the benefit of a starting surprise attack. Still, you are up against something like 18K AV of Japanese troops which I doubt that Wargamer is -- but you never know.

So your experience versus Japan is vastly different that this one.

I am curious how the air war is going?

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 3:01:07 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Having trouble understanding why your Russian forces did nothing for a week and how units teleported away from rail lines.

I'm playing a Focus Pacific scenario with Russia active from game start.

I'm finding the Russians to be a juggernaut the Japanese cannot contain.

Allies can't move Russian troops until there is a border violation. So Wargamer spotted the Japanese movement a week ago, but could not move, other than changing op status, until the violation actually occurred.

Remember, Hans you are playing against the AI that didn't have the benefit of a starting surprise attack. Still, you are up against something like 18K AV of Japanese troops which I doubt that Wargamer is -- but you never know.

So your experience versus Japan is vastly different that this one.

I am curious how the air war is going?

Understand the differences but in my game the Russians are also fighting with 1942 forces without the benefit of two years of training and bases that haven't been building forts for two years.

By '44 every Russian base should have level 6-9 forts depending on their individual limitations, every Russian air squadron should have overall experience at 70 and several individual skills at 70.

Russian Amy stacks with 1500+AV and 1,000 artillery pieces are quite formidable.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 12/31/2015 4:03:14 PM >

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 4:22:42 PM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am curious how the air war is going?

I have almost everything flying doing local attacks like suggested. Mostly dozens of troops injured or disabled. This was a great attack though on a regiment used as one of 6-8 blocking forces along the rail line.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 4:36:24 PM

BBfanboy

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Yeah, if you need to put any Russian aircraft in harm's way, send the I-16m24s. Their extremely short range of 3 hexes (extended!) makes them marginally useful anywhere. The enemy have to be nearly on top of you before you can use them. And, of course, this is the most plentiful fighter in the pools ....

.

The Russian bombers in my game do not have any new arrivals in the pools save the IL-2 LB being manufactured at Komsomolsk. Of those I get so many that when my squadrons of other bomber types start to lose 1/3 of their strength, I replace them with IL-2s to get some planes in the pools to fill out other decimated squadrons. I still have hundreds of IL-2s in the pools.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 6:06:24 PM

Mike McCreery

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The russian units about 5 hexes east of Hailun moving west were thrown off the rail tracks from strat move into the middle of the jungle. The units to the west of Birobidshan were also thrown off of the rail tracks 50 miles to the west. Those are not a big deal but why they are re-located rather than just stalled along the rail line does not make sense.

It will take a long time to get the forces back on any decent ground and more time to hunt down the unit that will be used to interdict in this area.

The Russian AI is not smart enough to cut the rail line in 6 or so places starting way up north. It will be the lack of supply and my inability to move troops to fight the 30+ units and 5000AV up north which is going to try to blockade the rail line to Moscow.

I have 2400AV of units that were in mongolia doing a left hook up into that area. I am not going to contest the desert plains at this time. I want him stretched as far north as possible, his lack of supply movement may be my only home at pulling this out for the Russians. I have about 800K of supply in the southern area(s) but it is scattered at many bases.

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< Message edited by Wargmr -- 12/31/2015 7:06:38 PM >

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 12/31/2015 7:04:10 PM

HansBolter

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The major road/rail line running south into Harbin is the key route of advance for the Russians.

Any drive by the Japanese to the east will be threatened in the flank by such a drive from the north by the Russians.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/2/2016 9:34:37 PM

Crackaces

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FYI Wargmr .. In my game with njp72 he invaded India and left Singapore open ... at the time the game stopped (due to
my schedule change) most of India had been overrun but the emergency reinforcements are in Karachi

The closest thing I have seen to what you have is a AAR called "Taming the Bear" by Radier but this is very different in many ways.

It is a very interesting move and a very deep game strategy .... to rationalize this I guess we can assume Hitler convinced Tojo to a second front before the destruction of army group center

It is a huge gamble in my opinion .. but I am only just really starting to understand how supply works over large land distances and the nuances
I can say that early on when I played this game I was told it was "impossible" to mount a counter offense in Oz near Darwin over land and an Allied Burma campaign was also "impossible"
Today these two strategies/counterstrategies are common play ..

However, "Taming the Bear" demonstrates that the Russians once able to mobilize can eventually secure bastions that eventually result in the easy destruction of IJ units in 1945.

In my opinion, a Formosa -> Korea strategy will make this a folly the quickest .. this thought is based on my understanding of supply propagation.
This is also assuming the IJ will depend on the propagation of supply from Korea to supply this misadventure.
My thought is that supply will start moving from Korea toward Russia due to the sudden increase in demand from units moving and in contact.

A whirlwind 1944 and sudden collapse in 1945 ...

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/3/2016 12:05:09 AM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

FYI Wargmr .. In my game with njp72 he invaded India and left Singapore open ... at the time the game stopped (due to
my schedule change) most of India had been overrun but the emergency reinforcements are in Karachi

The closest thing I have seen to what you have is a AAR called "Taming the Bear" by Radier but this is very different in many ways.

It is a very interesting move and a very deep game strategy .... to rationalize this I guess we can assume Hitler convinced Tojo to a second front before the destruction of army group center

It is a huge gamble in my opinion .. but I am only just really starting to understand how supply works over large land distances and the nuances
I can say that early on when I played this game I was told it was "impossible" to mount a counter offense in Oz near Darwin over land and an Allied Burma campaign was also "impossible"
Today these two strategies/counterstrategies are common play ..

However, "Taming the Bear" demonstrates that the Russians once able to mobilize can eventually secure bastions that eventually result in the easy destruction of IJ units in 1945.

In my opinion, a Formosa -> Korea strategy will make this a folly the quickest .. this thought is based on my understanding of supply propagation.
This is also assuming the IJ will depend on the propagation of supply from Korea to supply this misadventure.
My thought is that supply will start moving from Korea toward Russia due to the sudden increase in demand from units moving and in contact.

A whirlwind 1944 and sudden collapse in 1945 ...

Sorry, my memory is bad. There were 2 AAR's with him. Yours was excellent as I remember. It was over 2 years ago so they have become buried even deeper into the bowels of the forum and I am not skilled enough to retrieve them.

I fear the situation within 3 or so months. NJP is coming in from the east coastal town of Nikolaevsk. He underestimated the NKVD unit there and between it and heavy heavy bombardments has had many ships damaged and many troops unload with disablements.

Unfortunately, I think the division gave it's last and next attack will overwhelm them.

On a good note there was a unit that crossed over into the swamp near Komsomolsk and it took a pounding in the skies to the point that when the Russian ground forces moved to attack there was nothing left for them to shoot at.

Because of where I was thrown off the rail in Strategic mode I am making a move to the west about the same level as Komsomolsk and along the road there to cross the river at the dot hex. I want to move to try to threaten Harbin.

The problem is that the rail lines are cut in at least 2 places north of Kuibyshevka and by the time I get those cleared it could allow more blockages of the lines. The majority of my army is stuck in the south with some scrambling north to try to help defend the rail lines north near Moscow.

On the flip side the Russians have over 6000 infantry squads to replace destroyed units and Moscow cannot truly be taken in game.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/3/2016 1:46:21 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

Wargmr: On the flip side the Russians have over 6000 infantry squads to replace destroyed units and Moscow cannot truly be taken in game.

Who needs Moscow when you can have Siberia?

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/5/2016 1:01:36 PM

Mike McCreery

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The new update took out my settings so I temporarily have this display with a huge amount of the map revealed. Because Russia and Japan colors are so close I have highlighted where NJP has cut the rail line. He isolated the bulk of my army in the southern half of the map and continues to blockade it.

My plan is to move west to try to contest Harbin and hope my supplies hold out. Another problem is the navigable river.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/5/2016 3:30:17 PM

Mike McCreery

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NJP has at least 60 units on Mindano and I hope to bypass them for a while. Within 2 days, transports are going in on the island of Palwan and the north coast of Borneo.

My left hook will be a division plus troops landing at Groot Natonea. I tried this last game but NJP pushed me off the island.

I am going to surge north into the Phillipines and then also move northwest to put troops near Soc Trang to isolate all of the oil centers.

His carriers are up north assisting with the invasion of Russia so I shall try to take advantage and move my position up considerably.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/10/2016 12:00:57 PM

Mike McCreery

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What a difference 2 weeks makes!!

NJP has proceeded to drive northwards and he had Boryza almost surrounded. I figured he was going to besige it as I have almost 2000AV behind lvl 3 forts. My plan was to see if any opportunity existed to surround his troops.

Today, the encircling forces turned around and started moving in the other direction. I cannot be sure it is all the troops nor why they are doing so but I can speculate that supply has not been fantastic and/or that the air attacks are depleting his troop readiness in a way he does not like.

In addition, I have broken through at the middle of the map and will be marching on Harbin in an effort to cut his rail lines. That may be the other reason for his movement(s) but he does have other forces available. Yellow lines indicate his major movement, red lines mine.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/10/2016 12:08:19 PM

Mike McCreery

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Knowing that NJP's carrier fleet was off the coast of Russia and deciding to break the Kamakazi line has lead me to explode north in the phillipines. In 2 weeks I have captured Palwan, the northwest coast of Borneo, and the lower 1/3rd of Luzon. It didnt hurt that none of it was defended.

There are 10K troops in Manila and a race is now on to see if I can get there before he gets reinforcements from the north.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/10/2016 12:14:48 PM

BBfanboy

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Nice! I had a notion you could make Russia into a tar-baby and then hit back!
Also great to see the progress around the Philippines. Have you been able to interdict his shipping by air from your new bases on Palawan and Borneo?

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/10/2016 12:46:25 PM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Nice! I had a notion you could make Russia into a tar-baby and then hit back!
Also great to see the progress around the Philippines. Have you been able to interdict his shipping by air from your new bases on Palawan and Borneo?

I am not sure if Russia is decided or if NJP is just re-positioning. He must have 13K of troops to play with and I dont think I have nearly that much AV. I am sure he is moving east and going to be hitting Komsomolsk eventually.

Yesterday he had emergency troop reinforcements at San Fernando. I lost a lot of planes but managed to torpedo one of the transports sinking it and a nice chunk of troops died. Knowing this, I wanted to take a crack at those transports with my carriers which were south of Manila supporting the Amhibious landing of 700AV of troops at Lucena.

I was not sure how desperate NJP was but also was wary of a trap so instead of attacking on the western side of the island I had the bright idea to attack from the eastern side of the island. And it might have worked too!!! My goal was to get to Baler which is a dot hex on the east side of Luzon 2 hexes away from San Fernando. NJP is a cap trap master and I did not want to get shredded so I set my attack range down to 3 hexes.

Well, the carriers did not make it as far as I would have liked and ended up 2 hexes south of Baler and not even in range of San Fernando which was 4 hexes away. In addition, NJP had replaced the troop transports with a big fat 10 ship STF including some of his BB's. So he tried to trap me as well.

Furthermore.... 8 hexes out from my carriers on the northwest side of Luzon his carriers were lurking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

< Message edited by Wargmr -- 1/10/2016 4:52:50 PM >

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/10/2016 12:54:39 PM

Mike McCreery

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Regarding shipping.

Puerto Princessa just went lvl 2 this turn so I can begin to base long range bombers there. Kudat is lvl 3 but I have not had time to get any AF support to this location.

Now that I have managed to get eyes up on the south china sea I have detected only one convoy of 4+ ships up near Cam Rahn Bay. Need to get additional air support assets to the coast. NJP has instigated some raiding from Babeldaob and other areas and sunk a few of my convoys lately so I am having issues with enough assets involved in the taking of the Phillipines and the other endeavors I need to be on top of.

To NJP's credit he has now sank over 1000 of my ships and is also doing well in the air campaign. This is limiting some of my troop movements as he has sunk pages of mostly empty AP ships. Once the amphibious assault on the Phillipines is wrapped up and about a week from now when I get most of my APA's back from upgrade I will be able to move around some more assets to secure the south china sea and prevent NJP from getting much oil through the blockade. It is the beginning of the end for the Japanese economy.

< Message edited by Wargmr -- 1/10/2016 3:03:59 PM >

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/10/2016 1:55:51 PM

Mike McCreery

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So, NJP Zigz and I Zagz and at least a portion of the KB assaults my carrier fleet east of Luzon. It is not pretty for the attackers. My guess is that most of the CAP for the carriers and most of the escorting firepower was LRCAP'd over his battleships located at San Fernando. He was probably hoping that I would send a stronger strike in on that location to try to kill his troop transports.

And he would be right except I did not make it to my hoped destination which left NJP in a perfect position for a 8 hex strike on my carriers. On the flip side, I wanted my carriers well protected so my attack at a maximum range of 3 never went in. However, the 70% CAP I had up picked up his incoming carrier attacks almost completely. There were 2-3 planes that did bomb/torpedo runs over the carriers without success.

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< Message edited by Wargmr -- 1/10/2016 4:53:16 PM >

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/10/2016 2:02:32 PM

Mike McCreery

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Here are the losses of the day and to the right is the current positions of the fleets with his BB TF at Vigan, the transport TF SW of the two portions of the KB fleet. NJP was fortunate for the battle to have taken place over Japanese territory so many of his pilots might be recovered.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/10/2016 2:54:26 PM

Lowpe

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Well done.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/10/2016 10:18:33 PM

BBfanboy

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The Combat Reports show 71 Jills destroyed, so you may have done even better than the Intel Report says!
I guess the Judy can't make a 9-hex strike? He might have been able to get some bombers through if he had been able to send both Jills and Judys. A drawback to the 9 hex strike (plus the Jills can't carry torps that far, I suppose).
He likely has lots of Jills in inventory but it will take a while to get them all into action. Meantime, you wear the spurs in the next encounter!

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/18/2016 2:42:08 AM

Mike McCreery

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He is using Jills for land attacks against the Russians so there are those too.

May 10, 1944. The Japanese attack across a river near Shilka. They take a beating. I can only hope he has supply issues because otherwise he is too strong in the north to stop at this time.

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/22/2016 11:05:14 PM

Mike McCreery

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My combat replay shows me getting a 2-1 attack on NJP at Boryza and causing 16,000 casualties. Of course it was a sychbug so like a kick in the gut I learn that I take more casualties than I dish out including losing 350 tanks...

I have no idea what Russia will end up like, thought I had an idea this turn but back to grinding it out...

< Message edited by Wargmr -- 1/23/2016 1:16:03 AM >

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RE: Groundhog Day! - 1/24/2016 1:22:38 PM

Mike McCreery

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June 1, 1944

The first day that the Japanese did not have a 'Minor Victory'. I thought I was paying attention and it seems the point difference went from around 12000 VP to 11000 VP last turn with no major events to account for the point change. My guess is that some important city held by the Japanese is low on supply.