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RE: Turns 96-97: 28 April – 11 May 1945

 
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RE: Turns 96-97: 28 April – 11 May 1945 - 4/30/2015 6:24:06 PM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Amazing to see the Germans still holding together and fighting hard in May 45.

It looks like the Russians are winning the race to Berlin ...


yes to both. I'd like the Germans to be weaker but its clear that their elite units are still deadly ... just they don't have that many and I hope they are not recovering as I slowly chew them up -- do wish I had a couple of Gds Tank and Gds Rifle Armies backed by several 1000 guns ... this is not really the moment for all this finesse and carefully resting units.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Great AAR. It usually takes 2-3 months for the Soviets to take Berlin from this point, although a lot depends on troop strength and weather. Since the EF front line is out of the Soviet Union, weather has less impact but it will still improve in mid-June. Except for passing weather fronts, the ground should now be drying for you in the west.



thank you, I was hoping for no worse than light mud till the game end. I think I need to decide what I am doing with US 1 Army, it no longer really matters if I generate a massive pocket in southern Belgium as I really need those units pressing into Germany ...

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RE: Turns 96-97: 28 April – 11 May 1945 - 4/30/2015 6:26:22 PM   
marion61

 

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Status: offline 		That was my first thought jwolf. How the heck did he keep those CV's so high this late in the war? If your the axis manpower wizard you need to come forward and give us some wisdom!

On the reverse side, how does your manpower for the Brits and Canadians look? I bet they are pretty low, but there are several things you can do to help it, if you haven't done them already-loki.

< Message edited by meklore61 -- 4/30/2015 7:28:02 PM >

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Post #: 122
RE: Turns 96-97: 28 April – 11 May 1945 - 4/30/2015 6:33:50 PM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meklore61

That was my first thought jwolf. How the heck did he keep those CV's so high this late in the war? If your the axis manpower wizard you need to come forward and give us some wisdom!



Simply flip the coin.


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Post #: 123
RE: Turns 96-97: 28 April – 11 May 1945 - 5/1/2015 7:38:06 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meklore61

That was my first thought jwolf. How the heck did he keep those CV's so high this late in the war? If your the axis manpower wizard you need to come forward and give us some wisdom!

On the reverse side, how does your manpower for the Brits and Canadians look? I bet they are pretty low, but there are several things you can do to help it, if you haven't done them already-loki.


Some of the high German cv may be the setting 90/110 as I'm using the challenging setting for an AI game. I'm noticing in my game with Dave that the average German unit is a bit weaker than I've got used to here.

manpower pools are ok. I've scrapped almost all the AA units I can, esp the British, Canadian and French ones and will clear out the British Army Group commands if I need to.






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 124
RE: Turns 96-97: 28 April – 11 May 1945 - 5/1/2015 5:04:19 PM   
marion61

 

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Status: offline 		My suggestion is that if your done invading, or don't need the British TF's, disband them. You have 3 of them I believe and they each give you 30k men. I also disbanded the 1st Canadian Army and assigned the two Canadian Corps to other armies. This gives the Canadians a 30k boost. Also and I disbanded all aa and arty su's for the Canadians.

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Post #: 125
RE: Turns 96-97: 28 April – 11 May 1945 - 5/1/2015 8:33:08 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		From the numbers you are skating a close line with the Canadians and British. Reducing the TOE %s might help there along with streamlining the command structures by disbanding HQs. You can also ignore historical imperatives and place their units under the command of American leaders - as long as you can find good enough ones to command. About half of the US commanders are not worth anything. The HQs will give you more manpower than the AA units. The Free French are actually looking quite well off with you having only used about 26K of your replacements to date and the US is also looking very good.

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Post #: 126
RE: Turns 96-97: 28 April – 11 May 1945 - 5/6/2015 7:52:43 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meklore61

My suggestion is that if your done invading, or don't need the British TF's, disband them. You have 3 of them I believe and they each give you 30k men. I also disbanded the 1st Canadian Army and assigned the two Canadian Corps to other armies. This gives the Canadians a 30k boost. Also and I disbanded all aa and arty su's for the Canadians.

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

From the numbers you are skating a close line with the Canadians and British. Reducing the TOE %s might help there along with streamlining the command structures by disbanding HQs. You can also ignore historical imperatives and place their units under the command of American leaders - as long as you can find good enough ones to command. About half of the US commanders are not worth anything. The HQs will give you more manpower than the AA units. The Free French are actually looking quite well off with you having only used about 26K of your replacements to date and the US is also looking very good.



thanks for the advice. Still struggling with WiTW to work out which bits of information really matter. Its clear with the Allies that overall levels of equipment and supply is not a constraint. I'm getting better at managing the few choke points (NFs, Recon planes) and from this, knowing which manpower pools really matter.


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Post #: 127
Turns 98-99: 12 – 25 May 1945 - 5/6/2015 7:59:29 AM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Turns 98-99: 12 – 25 May 1945

On these turns the weather started to improve. First was rain/light mud but the second was clear weather.

On T98, US 3 Army broke the German front around Enschede with my turn ending with the illusion of no organised German units between the Polish armoured division and Berlin.



However, to the south, 1 US Army is running into increasingly substantial resistance and 2 British was stalled in an attempt to break out.



The Germans managed a nasty counterattack at Moers recapturing the city.



Main change on T99 was the weather clearing. Equally, for the first time most German units appeared to be much weaker. The exception was the group defending around Trier.

T99 saw a combination of 3 US and 1 Canadian (the units with the blue symbol box) make more gains on the German-Dutch border. All the Germans can muster on this sector is a weak defence but its just enough to make me have to fight and to prevent a major breakthrough. But good weather is allowing my tactical air to inflict heavy losses.



On 2 British/1 US sector not such a success but then this is pinning down a lot of German units. I decided to stop 1 US' offensive southwards and switch its armoured units to support 2 British (and infantry to hold the flanks). The attempt to break out directly failed (badly) but British armour found a gap in the German defences and reached Kassel.

Of importance for my supply lines, finally managed to force the Germans back from Cologne and British armour seized Wuppertal (which was undefended).



Here's the supply situation. Clearing the Germans from Cologne will help with pushing supply to 2 British. With Antwerp and Rotterdam fully repaired and Amsterdam available, I'm landing enough to maintain the offensive, only problem is delivery, especially to 2 British Army.



VP situation is as expected. I'm taking very heavy losses in an attempt to wreck the German army and these losses are not being matched by city VP score. My hope is in the next couple of turns I might manage a pocket at the Ruhr and a decent VP haul for capturing that region.



Despite all the bombing, no real evidence of a significant dent in German capacity.



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Post #: 128
Turns 100-101: 26 May – 8 June 1945 - 5/12/2015 7:17:13 AM   
loki100


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Status: offline 		Turns 100-101: 26 May – 8 June 1945

Main impression in these two turns is that both armies are completely exhausted. Germans, now, apart from a few units are very low cv and mine are struggling for much more than 3 (Inf) or 6 (Arm). Main reason for this seems to be fatigue and also relatively low TOEs. Its hard with the allies but I think you really need to be more disciplined than I have been about pulling stuff out of the line to recover.

Basic pools are ok, this is for T100 (I've scrapped the British Army Group commands):



But this might show up the fatigue/TOE problem. In this respect, I've gained a lot by stretching the German lines but in turn it means almost all my army is at the front, either holding the flanks or heavily involved in the fighting [1].



Also on T101, I finally suspended the strategic air war and committed all the 4 engined bombers to rail interdiction attacks. There are few targets left and my only (very small) hope of getting to Berlin is to wreck the German army.

On T100, both spearheads (US 3 and 1 Canadian in the north, 8 Br in the south, backed by US 1) only managed very small gains. But in the north, I did cross one of the final river barriers abd in the south broadened the shoulders of my bulge, easing redeployment



The small gains of T100 paid off in T101. US 3 managed a clear breakout and swung south behind the Ruhr.



8 British had much harder fighting but I pulled back from the drive towards Erfurt and punched a hole in the German lines allowing a link up with US 3 and was able to put enough units into the gap to make it secure (hopefully).



Those gains in turn allowed the creation of a couple of new advanced depots to ease resupply.



VP situation is not improving, but I suspect this will end in a draw. The losses needed to make progress are too heavy compared to the city VP gain.




[1] – since this is not really a problem of absolute numbers, either manpower or equipment, I'm not sure I would have gained much by setting the TOE of units in Italy to <100 but that is something I might experiment with in another game.

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Post #: 129
RE: Turns 100-101: 26 May – 8 June 1945 - 5/12/2015 1:49:58 PM   
jwolf

 

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Status: offline 		Germans are finally falling apart. This is looking like a WITE game with Axis victory, when the Red Army just crumbles completely and they don't have anything left.

How about Italy? Any progress for Anna?

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Post #: 130
RE: Turns 100-101: 26 May – 8 June 1945 - 5/12/2015 5:48:36 PM   
AWGreif


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From: Italy
Status: offline 		If this is a game vs. the AI, how comes it did not end at turn 97?
In any case the delayed end should cost the WA 100 VP per turn, so this will be an Axis Minor Victory.


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RE: Turns 100-101: 26 May – 8 June 1945 - 5/12/2015 7:42:35 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Germans are finally falling apart. This is looking like a WITE game with Axis victory, when the Red Army just crumbles completely and they don't have anything left.

How about Italy? Any progress for Anna?


Italy is completely stalled just south of Florence, so no doubt she will have plenty to say on the subject.

The difference between the allies at this stage and the Red Army is huge. End of war with the Soviets you tend to feel you no longer have an opponent who can stand up to the power house you've built, with the Allies it feels like two exhausted boxers reaching the end of their strength.

I think I needed to take more care over managing TOE/fatigue, as it is I've burnt out my army in the drive to cripple the Germans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AWGreif

If this is a game vs. the AI, how comes it did not end at turn 97?
In any case the delayed end should cost the WA 100 VP per turn, so this will be an Axis Minor Victory.



I'm not sure to be honest, I didn't expect it to last into the summer. I should have worked out what Turn 110 meant. As it is I perhaps attacked too much in the poor weather - which is my response above - and should have saved more for the better weather in May/June.

I've made enough mistakes, esp with Paras, that I can't be surprised if it ends in a marginal defeat. I've also learnt a lot more about how to stack up VPs with the 1943 strategic air war.

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Post #: 132
Turns 102-103: 9 June – 22 June 1945 - 5/15/2015 10:41:23 PM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Turns 102-103: 9 June – 22 June 1945

I'll keep this brief.

In effect the main battle front in Germany now feels like two exhausted boxers slugging it out. For me a unit with a CV>5 is an elite formation to be cherished. Most of the German units, especially where I am bombing are 1-1 ants. However, combat delays are hurting my attempts to exploit this situation.

In both turns, I attacked to reduce the Ruhr pocket (for the potential VP gain) and hammered the German lines in norhtern Germany.

After two turns of this, the Ruhr is almost captured and my armoured spearheads are past Hannover – though Berlin still seems a long way away/



VP situation is clearly heading for a German marginal vicotry.



Overall losses are fairly even



My manpower pools are ok, given there are only 8 turns left.



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Post #: 133
Turns 104-105: 23 June 1945 – 6 July 1945 - 5/17/2015 9:56:14 PM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Turns 104-105: 23 June 1945 – 6 July 1945

Again a short update. In these two turns I was using US 3 Army to press onto Bremen and Hamburg, increasingly deploying US 1 Army to free up 2 British and trying to destroy the various pockets I've produced.

At the end of T104, 2 British has pushed past Braunschweig, but I have a lot of units trapped trying to destroy pockets.



Turn 105 saw substantial gains on the road to Berlin (and scarily open flanks). British Gds Armoured is only 60 miles from Berlin but I suspect my chances of taking the city depends on the strength of the German garrison. Equally I've managed to free up some more units from the Ruhr sector which will help reinforce my attempt to reach Berlin.



Should stress only 4 turns to go ...

Every bomber, apart from US 15 Air is carrying out some form of Ground attack/interdiction, especially in support of 2 British Army.

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Post #: 134
RE: Turns 104-105: 23 June 1945 – 6 July 1945 - 5/17/2015 10:36:32 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100
I have a lot of units trapped trying to destroy pockets.



That's an ironic way to put it, since the other guys are supposed to be the ones who are trapped. But I know what you mean.

Aside from it being near the end so there's little to lose, I would think you can risk some more forward or even reckless positions since the Germans don't have (??) the strength anymore to contest you or close a pocket against you.

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Post #: 135
RE: Turns 104-105: 23 June 1945 – 6 July 1945 - 5/18/2015 5:49:13 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100
I have a lot of units trapped trying to destroy pockets.



That's an ironic way to put it, since the other guys are supposed to be the ones who are trapped. But I know what you mean.

Aside from it being near the end so there's little to lose, I would think you can risk some more forward or even reckless positions since the Germans don't have (??) the strength anymore to contest you or close a pocket against you.


aye, I realised it sounded odd, but its how I am seeing it at the moment. At least around the Ruhr I'm able to break down into regiments (there is no way I can attack those city hexes till isolation really hurts). This will be interesting in WiTE, a well led force in an urban hex is going to take some destroying, it will seriously change the pocket generation/collapse routine.

I really am fully extended, if e-Adolf has hidden a secret reserve then I am in trouble as he could cut off my spearheads and I doubt I have enough units to save them. As it is, he seems obsessed with saving Frankfurt and Bavaria, so I *may*, just, have a chance of grabbing Berlin.

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Turn 106: 7-13 July 1945 - 5/18/2015 9:14:13 PM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		I made my moves for T106, captured Hamburg and Bremen and actually reached the outskirts of Berlin:



ran the end turn routine and ...



a few turns early. Guess the reason is to do with the east front moving in a slightly random manner?

I forgot to then open and take a picture of the vp score etc but the turn before I was on -170, so I lost at least 730 right at the end to take the score to at least -900.

This really adds to my lack of liking for how the VP system is working. I like and approve that the system is more political and takes account of the wider context (ie specific targets for bombing, allied need to avoid losses etc). But at the moment its rather spoiling the game. In my PBEM with smokindave, I've started to just ignore the VP system as its clear that is heading for a major defeat (EF box as much as anything else) regardless of what I try to do.

The problem is that once you start to do this, then all that carefully thought out design work becomes ineffective. If you can't win with the VP system then the VP system no longer works as an effective constraint on your planning or options.

Also last time I checked, despite the Ruhr being cut off, few cities not in ruins and so on ... the German economy is working fine.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 5/18/2015 10:18:11 PM >

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RE: Turn 106: 7-13 July 1945 - 5/18/2015 9:38:45 PM   
AWGreif


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From: Italy
Status: offline 		Turn 106 means at least 9 turns later than history, and thus 900 VP penalty.
Yet the question is ... why in a game against the AI the Soviets did not reach Berlin at turn 96?
Was not intended that against the AI the end (Soviets in Berlin) would have alwuys been within the historical date?
Or it is possible, although not written in the Rules, that the AI plays with the EF box on?

Btw according to Rules, with the end at turn 96-97, this would have ended correctly as a Draw.


< Message edited by AWGreif -- 5/18/2015 10:40:12 PM >

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Post #: 138
RE: Turn 106: 7-13 July 1945 - 5/18/2015 9:38:54 PM   
whoofe

 

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Status: offline 		well that's disappointing... :(

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Post #: 139
RE: Turn 106: 7-13 July 1945 - 5/18/2015 10:05:37 PM   
jwolf

 

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Status: offline 		Rats that is a rotten ending. I can't comment on the VP system as I don't know the details, but your comment:

quote:

If you can't win with the VP system then the VP system no longer works as an effective constraint on your planning or options.


sounds right on the money and it is an ironic and maybe even perverse outcome.

Still, it was great to read and follow your game and thanks very much for a great AAR.

Now the final question: what does Anna say about the whole thing?

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Post #: 140
RE: Turn 106: 7-13 July 1945 - 5/19/2015 12:53:58 AM   
Seminole


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quote:

I forgot to then open and take a picture of the vp score etc but the turn before I was on -170, so I lost at least 730 right at the end to take the score to at least -900.


If you could open up a save and show the VP breakdown I'd be interested to see how the various factors balanced out over the course of a campaign. The graphs on points per turn, etc for the various elements put some meat on the bones of arguments (with the noticeable caveats to player and opponent skill sets). Especially to see those charts and go back and see what strategy was producing those results.

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Post #: 141
RE: Turn 106: 7-13 July 1945 - 5/19/2015 6:00:46 AM   
Devonport


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Status: offline 		Thanks for the AAR loki 100, very interesting and informative. I only play the AI and have decided not to be too bothered by the VP score, just see it as a relative rather than absolute indicator of success. I would like to see more overt payback for strategic bombing but that argument is being rehearsed elsewhere.

Again, thanks for taking the trouble to share, I have learnt a lot.

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Post #: 142
RE: Turn 106: 7-13 July 1945 - 5/19/2015 7:32:52 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AWGreif

Turn 106 means at least 9 turns later than history, and thus 900 VP penalty.
Yet the question is ... why in a game against the AI the Soviets did not reach Berlin at turn 96?
Was not intended that against the AI the end (Soviets in Berlin) would have alwuys been within the historical date?
Or it is possible, although not written in the Rules, that the AI plays with the EF box on?

Btw according to Rules, with the end at turn 96-97, this would have ended correctly as a Draw.



I think that is what caught me out. I assumed that against the AI, the game ended in early May, so was really surprised to find it carrying onto into the summer. I'd have hoped that meant the AI was operating without the EF box.

quote:

ORIGINAL: whoofe

well that's disappointing... :(



Certainly was a surprise - I thought I had 3-4 more turns and it would depend on how strong the Berlin garrison was ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Rats that is a rotten ending. I can't comment on the VP system as I don't know the details, but your comment:

quote:

If you can't win with the VP system then the VP system no longer works as an effective constraint on your planning or options.


sounds right on the money and it is an ironic and maybe even perverse outcome.

Still, it was great to read and follow your game and thanks very much for a great AAR.

Now the final question: what does Anna say about the whole thing?


glad it was enjoyable. It is a very interesting game, there is a lot more planning ahead than in WiTE and working how to exploit the allies' airpower is a challenge in itself.

Anna is clearly now on my side (final post below)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole


quote:

I forgot to then open and take a picture of the vp score etc but the turn before I was on -170, so I lost at least 730 right at the end to take the score to at least -900.


If you could open up a save and show the VP breakdown I'd be interested to see how the various factors balanced out over the course of a campaign. The graphs on points per turn, etc for the various elements put some meat on the bones of arguments (with the noticeable caveats to player and opponent skill sets). Especially to see those charts and go back and see what strategy was producing those results.


have done a final post, its based on T106 but it makes little difference apart from the 900 point fine for Uncle Joe being late to Berlin.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devonport

Thanks for the AAR loki 100, very interesting and informative. I only play the AI and have decided not to be too bothered by the VP score, just see it as a relative rather than absolute indicator of success. I would like to see more overt payback for strategic bombing but that argument is being rehearsed elsewhere.

Again, thanks for taking the trouble to share, I have learnt a lot.


thanks for the comments, it is, as above, a really good game. When it was first under discussion I couldn't see how they could make an interesting game of an essentially one-sided campaign but it works really well.

It does seem as if the relative robustness of the German economy is under consideration. Don't want to see the opposite - where no matter how well the German player does, they lose as a predetermined economic collapse occurs - nor that hitting a particular link in the industrial chain is an 'I win' button - but something needs to reflect allied pressure on land and air (plus losses to the Soviets) leading to real constraints on the Germans in the late game.


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Post #: 143
overview - 5/19/2015 7:37:12 AM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Overview and Comments

All this data is from my end of turn for 106 as I forgot to save the final outcome. Don't think it makes all that much difference.

Industry

The chart below looks at the two key resources for on-map operations: supply and fuel. I know that the full industrial chain is needed to generate arms points and named vehicles/planes but the ability to actually fight comes from having enough supply fuel.

To put it in context, from late 1944 I've struggled to find strategic bombing targets and started hitting things like generic vehicles, resource points and non-essential named vehicles to give my bombers something to do. Accept that the fog of war means that the reported damage is possibly false but it should be broadly correct.

Supply clearly never became a problem as it dropped from around 11,000 in T21-31 to 9,000 at the end. Fuel was no constraint either until after T101 when it ran out – this fits with what I was seeing as the German mobile units did not react to my very risky breakout.



Here's my key pools. As you'd expect at the global level I have no problems, the challenge with the allies is delivery to the front line. None of the manpower pools are a constraint – though I have been disbanding AA units and spare HQ formations.



Losses

Not really sure how to interpret these outcomes – in WiTE I have a feel for how this information feeds into an assessment of overall performance.



As I mentioned in the AAR, my feeling was that the Luftwaffe started to weaken by early 1944 and fell apart in late 1944.

List of destroyed units, also shows the results of my disbanding and scrapping.



Perhaps the main thing there is I was too careless with the paratroops. Deep 'Market-Garden' style operations clearly do not work and just lead to your paratroops visiting South Armagh.

VP

Here is the total position. The only time I was positive was at the start of 1944 when there was no ground fighting and I'd finally worked out (helped by the current patch) how to maximise the strategic air war.



VP for city occupation never really took off. Mainly due to the different time modifiers I suspect as it reached 17 per turn at the end of 1944 and then fell back to 12-14 even as I started to capture German cities.



Bombing, as above, is one area where I now know how to gain a much higher score in the early game. So as opposed to managing around 4 per turn in 1943 could reach 8-12 on a regular basis. That feeds in across the game as that is more damaged targets that in turn give VP till they are repaired.



Losses were probably too high. As above, a few times I was very careless with the paratroops. The spike around T51 was when the AI counterattacked in Normandy. The 'other' losses for about T21 were the results of the landings near Rome when a couple of French divisions were badly chewed up.



U-Boats, managed to keep to around 4 per turn. If anything, in a new game I'd be less focussed on these and instead use 1943 for hitting the overall German industry. V-weapons, I was reasonably happy about. It seems easier to hit the bulk of the production sites and the launch sites are in easy range of UK-based airpower. The only time this was out of control was when I invaded Northern Europe and had to divert all my airpower to supporting my landings.



Since this was an AI game there are no VP charts for partisans or for the East Front.

AI

Few comments. I think it general its good, with a few bonuses it will produce a challenging game. Its main mistake was to keep too much in Italy (it must have had 8-10 more divisions than needed) and to over-defend NE France (again there were 8-10 divisions here that were not needed as a regimental defence would have worked).

Reason for saying this is those 16-20 divisions, deployed into Belgium/Netherlands, would have ended my offensive in that sector in late 1944, leading to a complete stalemate. I think this comment relates to the overall issue that the German economy does not really weaken over the game.

I think its 'stay behind' mindset was effective. By hanging onto key cities and rail junctions it really slowed my supply. A player can better judge when to do this and when to preserve units but its a good basic tactic. I think from the supply maps I've shown how often I couldn't create forward depots as it was hanging onto a key location.

With the allies, you really have to rest your units. This is far more important than with either side in WiTE. I thought this game was going to end in May 1945 which is why I over committed the allied armies in the poor weather. Had I realised I had a complete summer I would have rested units and perhaps managed a better end game sweep into Germany.
Final word of course, has to go to Anna. Here she is trying to convince the game to award me more victory points:



Scene is from Bellissima, probably her best film.

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(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 144
RE: overview - 5/19/2015 9:46:27 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you for the AAR! Well done and very valuable for us.

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Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 145
RE: overview - 5/19/2015 1:21:53 PM   
soeren01

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		Thanks for the good AAR

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soeren01, formerly known as Soeren
CoG FoF
PacWar WIR BoB BTR UV WITP WITE WITW

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 146
RE: overview - 5/19/2015 4:35:15 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

As I mentioned in the AAR, my feeling was that the Luftwaffe started to weaken by early 1944 and fell apart in late 1944.


What's the story with those operational losses?




65%(!) of Axis losses?
Is the AI just getting wasted flying training missions? Hard to chalk it up to auto naval patrol as LB losses are but a fraction of that...

< Message edited by Seminole -- 5/19/2015 5:35:36 PM >

(in reply to soeren01)
Post #: 147
RE: overview - 5/20/2015 6:47:57 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Thank you for the AAR! Well done and very valuable for us.


thank you, glad it was useful. One reason I took it to the end was to provide some evidence on the basis of a completed game rather than assertions based on playing up to T12

quote:

ORIGINAL: soeren01

Thanks for the good AAR


Thanks, glad it was useful

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(in reply to soeren01)
Post #: 148
RE: overview - 5/20/2015 6:55:46 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

As I mentioned in the AAR, my feeling was that the Luftwaffe started to weaken by early 1944 and fell apart in late 1944.


What's the story with those operational losses?




65%(!) of Axis losses?
Is the AI just getting wasted flying training missions? Hard to chalk it up to auto naval patrol as LB losses are but a fraction of that...


Not sure, it was running up a relatively high ratio of op losses: combat losses all game, esp after about T50 when I think it was using inexperienced pilots a lot, Some figures:

(combat/op losses for axis)

T4: 720/567
T27: 4194/4483

its not a screen I often saved as I tended to use the report on the air phase to discuss losses/impact of air operations

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(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 149
RE: overview - 5/20/2015 1:57:13 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline 		It just seems absurd that the Luftwaffe lost over twice as many aircraft to just 'flying around' than to fighting.
Maybe training is too destructive?
I turn down training values on the first turn (especially for the Italians, they die in droves if you let them 'train').

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 150
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