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RE: overview - 5/20/2015 2:08:16 PM

soeren01

Posts: 393
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Bayern
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

It just seems absurd that the Luftwaffe lost over twice as many aircraft to just 'flying around' than to fighting.
Maybe training is too destructive?
I turn down training values on the first turn (especially for the Italians, they die in droves if you let them 'train').

I could not find my reference, but as far as i know there where much more losses due to training accidents then to combat.
Crashlandings because of combat damage also count as ops loss in game, I think. That would increase the numbers further.

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soeren01, formerly known as Soeren
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(in reply to Seminole)

Post #: 151

RE: overview - 5/20/2015 2:31:01 PM

whoofe

Posts: 211
Joined: 1/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

With the allies, you really have to rest your units. This is far more important than with either side in WiTE. I thought this game was going to end in May 1945 which is why I over committed the allied armies in the poor weather. Had I realised I had a complete summer I would have rested units and perhaps managed a better end game sweep into Germany.

so when you say rest the units - not attacking with units every turn? I often just attack with just one or two corps at a time but still seems like the rest are not recovering their full CV very much

do you have to not even move them at all to rest them? or can be readjusted and moved a few hexes and still be considered rested?

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 152

RE: overview - 5/21/2015 8:14:53 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

It just seems absurd that the Luftwaffe lost over twice as many aircraft to just 'flying around' than to fighting.
Maybe training is too destructive?
I turn down training values on the first turn (especially for the Italians, they die in droves if you let them 'train').

quote:

ORIGINAL: soeren01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

It just seems absurd that the Luftwaffe lost over twice as many aircraft to just 'flying around' than to fighting.
Maybe training is too destructive?
I turn down training values on the first turn (especially for the Italians, they die in droves if you let them 'train').

I could not find my reference, but as far as i know there where much more losses due to training accidents then to combat.
Crashlandings because of combat damage also count as ops loss in game, I think. That would increase the numbers further.

From the in-turn air results, I'm sure they were picking up substantial air losses from operations per turn. I think that damaged aircraft (esp with untrained pilots) are prone to op losses which sounds right. However, I do think the AI over-commits its airforce but that was just a rough impression compared to my current PBEM

quote:

ORIGINAL: whoofe

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

With the allies, you really have to rest your units. This is far more important than with either side in WiTE. I thought this game was going to end in May 1945 which is why I over committed the allied armies in the poor weather. Had I realised I had a complete summer I would have rested units and perhaps managed a better end game sweep into Germany.

so when you say rest the units - not attacking with units every turn? I often just attack with just one or two corps at a time but still seems like the rest are not recovering their full CV very much

do you have to not even move them at all to rest them? or can be readjusted and moved a few hexes and still be considered rested?

I think there are two problems. Later in the game,even well rested units seemed to struggle to push their basic ToE over 60% or so - I suspect this is an equipment delivery problem not an equipment shortage. Or it may have been my fault in that even units I pulled out to rest were still quite near the front. But you seem to seeing the same thing (that even rested they don't return to an early game CV?).

But even with this constraint, I noticed that once fatigue got to 50+ a British infanty division struggled to produce 4 cv, US about 2-3 and armour <6, while a turn or so to let that run down could get these to say 6/4/8 respectively. Given the late game the Germans seem stuck with 1-1 ants, that small gain is important, not least in allowing you to make more use of hasty attacks to clear a road to Berlin.

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Post #: 153

RE: overview - 5/21/2015 10:17:44 AM

soeren01

Posts: 393
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Bayern
Status: offline

It should not matter how near to the fromt you are, as long as you are not adjacent to enemy units.

9.4.1
Units adjacent to an enemy unit during
their logistics phase gain 4 times as much fatigue
and there is 16 times more probability that damaged
ground elements will be destroyed during this phase
compared to units not adjacent to an enemy unit

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(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 154

RE: overview - 5/21/2015 1:57:56 PM

whoofe

Posts: 211
Joined: 1/21/2011
Status: offline

well I notice when I move units - armored units in particular, I lose about half the CV in a long move. (even just moving them around in Britain, for example) is that from fatigue? why would they have so much fatigue if they are armored/motorized? I would think the foot units would suffer the fatigue more from long moves

(in reply to soeren01)

Post #: 155

RE: overview - 5/21/2015 2:37:41 PM

soeren01

Posts: 393
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Bayern
Status: offline

Check the fuel status of your units. If you use up your fuel for the march to the front, you have less for combat.

15.6.2.5. Ammunition and Fuel Impact on CV Values
All units with less than 100 percent of their ammunition
needs, and motorized units with less than 50 percent
of their fuel needs will suffer a reduction in CV (not
to exceed a 50 percent reduction in total from these
two modifiers). First a unit loses 1 percent for each 1
percent they are short of their ammunition needs.
Next motorized units lose 2 percent for each 1 percent
they are short of 50 percent of their fuel needs. A unit
cannot lose more than 50 percent of their CV value due
to the combined effects of these modifiers. Example 1:
a motorized unit with 90 percent of ammo needs and
40 percent of fuel needs would have its CV multiplied
by .9 and then .8 (or .72, thus losing 28 percent of its CV
value). Example 2: The same unit but with 90 percent of
ammo and 25 percent of fuel needs would have its CV
multiplied by .5 as .9 times .5 is less than .5 which is the
maximum combined penalty. These CV reductions are
accounted for in the printed on-map CV values.

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Post #: 156

RE: overview - 5/21/2015 3:34:31 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: whoofe

well I notice when I move units - armored units in particular, I lose about half the CV in a long move. (even just moving them around in Britain, for example) is that from fatigue? why would they have so much fatigue if they are armored/motorized? I would think the foot units would suffer the fatigue more from long moves

It's a combination of things, but using up your fuel is one of them and gaining fatigue is another. A third is that we recently found that long distance moves were causing huge damage to AFVs. Of course we wanted some attrition, but not to the level we were seeing. So we reduced the level of attrition on these long distance moves and that change is in the 1.00.37 public beta version. That will help, especially since AFVs are worth a lot of CV. Even so, you will see your units drop in CV if they move a lot. One thing you can do is refuel them on the move. Great if you can move adjacent to an airbase and then fly in some air transport to the airfield. You can drop directly on the unit, but it's much more efficient if there's an airbase to land on. Also, keep in mind that during combat you have a chance of being resupplied, so if you're logistics situation is good, you may end up fighting much better than your stated CV indicates. Of course if you've just moved a long way, you're probably a long way from your depots. Units are most vulnerable to a counterattack after one of these long marches far from depots.

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All understanding comes after the fact.
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(in reply to whoofe)

Post #: 157

RE: overview - 5/21/2015 3:52:12 PM

whoofe

Posts: 211
Joined: 1/21/2011
Status: offline

excellent info - thanks guys!

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 158