AI armoured car rush

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AI armoured car rush - 1/26/2015 2:44:32 PM

Kaldadarnes

Posts: 157
Joined: 8/6/2013
From: Berkshire, UK
Status: offline

Ok - so I'm really struggling with the AI rushing me early on with armoured cars - specifically in the first few turns. I normally play against multiple allied AI so I expect to be outnumbered but early on the numbers of armoured cats can be ridiculous.

It's fine if I have some good terrain in my favour (woods mountains etc) but if I'm on plains or desert - hordes of the f@ckers rip through me before I can get enough armour/AT guns out to counter them.

How do other people manage this? Any thoughts?

Alternatively, is there any way to prevent the AI declaring war for, say, 10 turns as a sort of "mobilisation period"? It does sometimes feel like you go to bed Thursday all hunky dory, wake up Friday and you're being invaded.

Cheers

K

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Omnia Videmus

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RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/26/2015 4:13:20 PM

Tac2i

Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline

A couple of things: 1) don't do allied AI or 2) use the editor to ally one AI with you before you start the game. Lastly, I think there is a rulevar that can be set so the AI doesn't declare war at all, allowing you to do so when you're ready.

Update:
Editor - Setng - RuleVars - Artificial intelligence - 903 - Change Rule Value

< Message edited by Webizen -- 1/26/2015 5:21:13 PM >

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Tac2i (formerly webizen)

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RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/26/2015 4:40:47 PM

Kaldadarnes

Posts: 157
Joined: 8/6/2013
From: Berkshire, UK
Status: offline

Thanks Webizen - I won't go down the allying with an AI route as basically I love getting into a big slugfest with multiple AIs coming at me, but just need a few turns to get my army together. However, without a river or mountain range to hide behind getting past turn 10 is a challenge.

Will try the rulevar at as suggested.

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Omnia Videmus

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RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/26/2015 5:01:34 PM

Ostwindflak

Posts: 668
Joined: 1/23/2014
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Light Tanks or AT Guns should be priority when fighting the AI. Those are the first things I get because every AI I have played loves the armored cars.

Then do dive bombers which really reduce their numbers.

Early game can be a struggle sometimes until you get said units up and running. Just throw some rifle units in front of them to slow them down and try to cut off their supply with a couple of cavalry units. That works for me until I can filter the AT guns out to the units and then hit back with Tank divisions.

(in reply to Kaldadarnes)

Post #: 4

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/26/2015 5:44:31 PM

Tac2i

Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline

You could also use the editor to add a mountain range and/or river.

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RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/26/2015 6:46:40 PM

Josh

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline

My games against AI go along the line of what OstwindFlak says, AI loves armoured cars, so I produce Light Tanks at the moment I have enough PP's. Even before I build a factory. Light Tanks rip through these ... f&ckers as you say. Early game it's about producing good ol'Cavalry (funny really that they still rock in this game) for recon and encirclement. Then ASAP Light Tanks and at the earliest possibility Medium Tanks.
But I agree those early Armoured Car rushes can be quite unnerving.

(in reply to Tac2i)

Post #: 6

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/26/2015 6:55:49 PM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

The AI won't attack you if you have more then them.Give yourself some extra trains in the editor. They do not add combat power to your army but add to your total strength. If you get the right number then the AI won't attack for a bit. Adjust as needed when you start a new game.

The AI has no problem putting their troops anywhere they want even with out trains so it isn't like they are not cheating already LOL.

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Post #: 7

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/27/2015 12:27:05 AM

baloo7777

Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline

How can you use the editor in a random game? Can you make it first then edit it?

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RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/27/2015 12:39:48 AM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

If you are not playing any other human you just pick edit when the stats for the game come up. If you are playing a Human they may frown on that.

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Post #: 9

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/27/2015 5:47:05 AM

Adam Rinkleff

Posts: 375
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline

Haven't played in a LONG time, but this post kind of inspires me to reinstall and play again.

As I remember, the AI is kind of a one trick pony, so enjoy the armored car rush while it lasts. I wouldn't try to mod it away as its the best thing the AI has going for it. Obviously, use your own armored cars! :D Remember, these things are moving, and whoever is attacking has a tactical advantage. So try to avoid combat until you can concentrate with initiative. Create concentrated infantry units with AT ability to control chokepoints, and don't just hold one square, or try to hold a line, but deploy them along the depth of an approach route so you slow the enemy advance down. Then counterattack with your own mobile forces. Meanwhile, develop tanks/dive bombers!

Honestly, the AI just collapses after u stop the armored cars. I seem to remember them just mass producing infantry, which were obliterated by my artillery and level bombers. It was really bad at producing combined arms formations...

Let me know if you or anyone would like to play multiplayer, I really enjoyed that back in the day.

----------------------

As an aside, I suggest you all try a modified game which should really become a default option (saving everyone time). The game has that annoying rule that you can take a city and gain production, which really doesn't reflect wartime reality (it takes forever to rebuild a city), and it basically makes it a race to take cities. I enjoyed it much more having all production produced in the capital, with the only advantage of capturing a city being its defensible nature.

-Adam Rinkleff

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Post #: 10

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/27/2015 9:54:26 AM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
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Just a few thoughts for modders:

An easy way to modify AI production preferences is to change the AI role scores for the SFTypes. For example changing AIRole Tank for Armoured car from 100 to 50 and for Light Tank from 100 to 300 causes it to think Light Tanks are better.

For more hardcore modders: There is even an ExecAIRoleScore() that you can use in scripts to randomize preferences of the AI or to change preferences based on analysis of current situation (CheckAIGetEnemyStrength(), CheckAIGetFriendlyStrength).

Best wishes,
Vic

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Post #: 11

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/27/2015 1:25:20 PM

Tac2i

Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline

This was only true of the classic Advanced Tactics game (2008 release). It is not true of ATG (2011 release). The only stuff a captured city not of your own people group can produce are PPs and limited amounts of raw and oil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AdamRinkleff

The game has that annoying rule that you can take a city and gain production...

-Adam Rinkleff

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Tac2i (formerly webizen)

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Post #: 12

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/27/2015 1:30:17 PM

Tac2i

Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline

Yes, I do it all the time. In my small group of multiplayers we even edit the maps to make them more fair for all players.

quote:

ORIGINAL: baloo7777

How can you use the editor in a random game? Can you make it first then edit it?

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RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/27/2015 2:10:10 PM

Tac2i

Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline

Thanks for the tips. I'll try modding the AI Roles and see how that goes.

Here is a modded newdawn file: bnewdawn2.at2 (right click to download)

I modded armored car = 50, std light tank = 300, std medium tank = 200

Here is a 4 player scenario file created with this mod: 4-player02.at2 (right click to download)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Just a few thoughts for modders:

An easy way to modify AI production preferences is to change the AI role scores for the SFTypes. For example changing AIRole Tank for Armoured car from 100 to 50 and for Light Tank from 100 to 300 causes it to think Light Tanks are better.

For more hardcore modders: There is even an ExecAIRoleScore() that you can use in scripts to randomize preferences of the AI or to change preferences based on analysis of current situation (CheckAIGetEnemyStrength(), CheckAIGetFriendlyStrength).

Best wishes,
Vic

< Message edited by Webizen -- 1/27/2015 3:28:10 PM >

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Tac2i (formerly webizen)

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RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/27/2015 5:29:20 PM

baloo7777

Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline

Thanks guys! This is my favorite forum! You always get answers that work too, and having Vic paying attention makes ATG one of my favorite games to play. Thanks for the 4 player scenario Webizen.

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JRR

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Post #: 15

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/28/2015 9:05:25 PM

Kaldadarnes

Posts: 157
Joined: 8/6/2013
From: Berkshire, UK
Status: offline

++++UPDATE++++

Jus fired up a new game to give these tactics a whirl...working like a dream.

Infantry holding strongpoints in woods, hills and cities, while light tanks pick and choose fights against armoured cars in the gaps.

The AIs are reeling.

One further refinement to suggest...use single fighters for reconnaissance in the early game so you can pick and choose fights where odds are favourable.

Cheers

K

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Omnia Videmus

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Post #: 16

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/28/2015 10:04:34 PM

Ostwindflak

Posts: 668
Joined: 1/23/2014
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Glad we could help you find some success!

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Post #: 17

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/29/2015 2:58:12 AM

cpdeyoung

Posts: 5368
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline

No doubt about it, LT3 with experience and morale are pure murder machines.

Chuck

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Post #: 18

RE: AI armoured car rush - 1/29/2015 8:52:14 AM

Josh

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaldadarnes

++++UPDATE++++

Jus fired up a new game to give these tactics a whirl...working like a dream.

Infantry holding strongpoints in woods, hills and cities, while light tanks pick and choose fights against armoured cars in the gaps.

The AIs are reeling.

One further refinement to suggest...use single fighters for reconnaissance in the early game so you can pick and choose fights where odds are favourable.

Cheers

K

Yep. And when you give your Inf a few AT guns and Mg's they can hold their ground against massive onslaughts. After such a battle, when the AI has attacked you with great force, check your losses screen. Usually you will lose some grunts, but very few AT guns and Mg's. Look at the experience gains after such a battle, the AT guns and Mg's getting pretty experienced fast. When attacking though the Mg's tend to die a bit too fast imho but oh well, I mean it's my understanding that heavy Mg's stay behind for long range covering fire so they wouldn't get hit so often but hmm I can live with it.

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Post #: 19