RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> After Action Reports >> RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 8:36:13 AM

JocMeister

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German forces.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 9:26:05 AM

JocMeister

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What I think probably happened is that the 8th, 15th and BC is flying interdiction from 23 and 27k altitude. Probably not a good recipe. Can�t be sure until I get the turn back but its the only thing I can think of.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 9:37:51 AM

british exil

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Been following the whole campaign.

The WA air force not working when you need it most, must really hurt.

But now that you know where the targets are, maybe just maybe the air jockeys will make up for their mistakes.

Mat

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 10:18:51 AM

JocMeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil
Been following the whole campaign.

The WA air force not working when you need it most, must really hurt.

But now that you know where the targets are, maybe just maybe the air jockeys will make up for their mistakes.
Mat

Yeah, not too happy about it obviously. But the blame is on myself. I should have checked everything three times over. If I can stay on the beaches there is still a slim hope. But I think Pelton will push at lest one or two invasions back. Which means I won�t be able to reinforce due to lack of space.

Only hope is if Pelton decides to try and block me in the peninsula rather then counterattacking. That would be very unlike him though.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 10:20:41 AM

JocMeister

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Here is a screen from before I executed the turn. Thought I had one with the GND attack only showing but I didn�t. Hard to make anything out on this one.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 10:45:28 AM

british exil

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Seems that there is much to consider taking ending a turn. Do you use a notepad or spreadsheet to keep track of everything?

BTW I am enjoying the AAR, even if I do not own the game, it is an entertaining read. Shame about the VP system, maybe the devs will alter some settings.

Mat

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"It is not enough to expect a man to pay for the best, you must also give him what he pays for." Alfred Dunhill

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 11:01:47 AM

JocMeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

Seems that there is much to consider taking ending a turn. Do you use a notepad or spreadsheet to keep track of everything?

BTW I am enjoying the AAR, even if I do not own the game, it is an entertaining read. Shame about the VP system, maybe the devs will alter some settings.

Mat

Glad you enjoy the AAR.

I do everything from memory. Good or bad that speeds up the process a lot. And having played the late war Allied AE turns WitW is a breeze. The drawback is that I sometimes forget things.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 11:07:53 AM

JocMeister

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______________________________________________________________________________

D-day +2
______________________________________________________________________________

We live one more turn at least...Pelton only smashed on beachhead. According to him fatigue didn�t make it worth attacking this turn. He also mentioned having 6 Panzers in reserve. I think he knows I�m done for or he wouldn�t tell me stuff like that.

Some things are positive though. He seems to have some problem with supply. Probably from me hitting all the rails going into the area. Most of his armor is also concentrated in a very small area. Which gives me a chance to let the 2nd RAF loose. And the weather is clear.

The bad things is that despite German naval interdiction being in the low 2-3 I loose 58 troop ships. That is almost 25% of my entire shipping capability. 80 Cargo lost. But the beaches are open for now.

I should probably withdraw the Canadians unless I can reestablish contact with the other beaches, right?

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< Message edited by JocMeister -- 2/26/2015 12:21:16 PM >

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 12:26:20 PM

JocMeister

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Won�t have time to do the turn until tonight. Just looked at it but if anyone has some advice feel free to share.

I�m going to hit the LW around Paris + the rails leading into the area using the 8th. 15th + BC will hit do interdiction over the beaches. 2nd RAF will hit the 3 panzers that destroyed my beachhead + the exposed HG division. This way I hope I can shift the Canadians into the hex I previously lost.

The overall plan is to try and hit Peltons offensive capabilities by hitting his Panzers and try to limit supply. If I survive 2-3 turns more I may be able to expand a bit to the west and get some room to land more troops.

I must admit the 1 week turns and scale of the game feels very clumsy in situations like this.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 12:54:20 PM

Q-Ball

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Ask Meklore what he was doing, because he put up big interdiction numbers in a box 10 hexes around the beachhead against me. That was in Picardy, which is a bit closer to England than Normandy, but still.

I would focus on killing tanks at this point; you need to de-tank those Panzer units. Rocket-equipped FBs on UNIT attack are really terrific at this. Typhoon and Hurricanes, though only Typhoon may have the range from England, not sure.

When I first played the game, I was dismissive of the Hurricane, but because they are equipped with rockets, AND you get them in numbers, it's invaluable.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 1:18:10 PM

JocMeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Ask Meklore what he was doing, because he put up big interdiction numbers in a box 10 hexes around the beachhead against me. That was in Picardy, which is a bit closer to England than Normandy, but still.

I would focus on killing tanks at this point; you need to de-tank those Panzer units. Rocket-equipped FBs on UNIT attack are really terrific at this. Typhoon and Hurricanes, though only Typhoon may have the range from England, not sure.

When I first played the game, I was dismissive of the Hurricane, but because they are equipped with rockets, AND you get them in numbers, it's invaluable.

Yeah, Meklore where are you when I need you?

I�ve converted all bomber trained FBs to Typhoons so they reach. Also retrained 8 Fighter units to bombers. Learned in my AI game just how deadly they can be. Question is if they can get me out of this mess.

In my AI game I killed some 400 Panthers + 120 Tigers in a single turn. But losses are horrendous though. 2nd RAF will probably be a one shot deal.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 1:30:57 PM

Seminole

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quote:

Just looked at it but if anyone has some advice feel free to share.

Do you ever use TFs as mobile, floating artillery parks?
Try stacking a few offshore of your next attack (e.g. three offshore while you squeeze that stack on the beach). I've found they make the Germans not want to fight on the coast, and it's pretty easy to get them back where they need to go by the end of the turn.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 1:33:37 PM

JocMeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

Just looked at it but if anyone has some advice feel free to share.

Do you ever use TFs as mobile, floating artillery parks?
Try stacking a few offshore of your next attack (e.g. three offshore while you squeeze that stack on the beach). I've found they make the Germans not want to fight on the coast, and it's pretty easy to get them back where they need to go by the end of the turn.

Thats really clever! Thank you for sharing!

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 2:12:08 PM

marion61

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Do you want me to pm my suggestions, or post them here? This is what my beaches against Qball were the turn I invaded him. I'd also ripped up most of the rail yards and ports behind him the turn before.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 2:16:54 PM

JocMeister

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You can send a PM if you want.

I think I figured it though but your way may work better!

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 2:41:08 PM

marion61

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I can post them here, hopefully it will help other's having trouble with invasions.

1. Stop strategic bombing till your out of the woods.

2. Your naval should be 9's around and near your beaches, and most of the way to and from England. This will reduce your transport loss. Stagger your naval patrols back towards your ports in England.

3. Get that TF away from Le Harve. That fortress is killing a lot of your transports and cargo ships. You can supply both beaches from the next hex over. Forts are ship killing machines.

4. Don't pull the Canadians out. The longer your there, and that is questionable since he can get a 4 hex attack on you there, but that's 4 stacks of units not attacking your other beaches yet. STAY!

5. Don't forget that you can fly infantry divisions without su's over to the continent, and don't put planes down until you know if you going to stay.

6. RAF Coastal, Bomber Command, and one other AF with medium bombers should be on naval interdiction mission, loaded with mines and or torpedos. Assign your wellingtons and halifax's to this and for the US, b-26's and b-25's from the 8th.

7. Rail way interdiction: You don't need a lot of escorts at this point, so change as many good FB's to bomber, use rockets, and small bombs loads with gas if possible to increase your time in the target area. If your going tank hunting don't use your typhoons and hurricanes, or split them to do both. At this point you need to reduce the CV of those armored divisions first. Whatever you decide, just assign them railway.

8. Ground interdiction: Leave this to light bombers and medium bombers. Assign them to just ground interdiction.

9. If you use Bomber Command for ground attack, make it for unit and ground interdiction, and make it's attack box cover just his front line units. You can do this by setting a range of 1, and set the strike hex as one of your front line stacks.

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< Message edited by meklore61 -- 2/26/2015 3:42:23 PM >

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 2:52:35 PM

marion61

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Cont:

10. Use 8th AF, but you can probably use a 2 hex area, and concentrate it over those armored divisions. Check bomb loads, and if you can fly without gas tanks on your bombers, add more bombs. Set this one to just unit and low on ground interdiction. Set these ground attack mission to 16k or so, but not below 15k, and make sure Bomber Command is flying in the day time.

11. 2nd RAF and the 9th load up with rockets and bombs, change as many fighter units to bombers that will reach, and put them on just unit. If you split your AD's up for these guys, use our tac and light bombers for railway/or ground interdiction.

12. When you set up the ground attacks, setting it is important, but you also need to count how many hexes are being attacked. In my example there are three hexes with units I want to rape, so I set my strikes to 3, and then I take the number of planes I have, divide by three and that's what I set my requested planes to and escorts. I also check their altitudes. Tac and Light bombers I'll set around 15-16k, and FB attacks I will set to 8 or 9k.

13. When I set my naval up, the main thing I set is the strikes to 99. This ensures that my air groups will perform as many missions as possible in the area, and don't make the areas too large. 5-6 is fine to cover your beaches and approach.

14. You need to have some ground interdiction missions on his units so they have a harder time with reserve activations.

15. Just get high experience units on those beaches now, let him expend himself on his counter attack and build up supply. The only attack I could see atm is St. Lo, and make sure your flying supply to those units. If you notice some of your TF's are showing yellow and red for supply. Flying supply to the beaches next to those TF's also resupplies them so you can maintain better naval bombardments when attacking and defending, and it helps your CV greatly after you've attacked. Not sure I'd attack just yet, let your air do some thinning out first.

Hope it helps!

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< Message edited by meklore61 -- 2/26/2015 3:59:15 PM >

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 3:04:49 PM

marion61

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16. Quit using fraps since it crashs the game. Screenpresso is great for screenshots. It's on freeware sites and cost nothing to use.

17. Set all of your divisions to reserve, unless your attacking. Make sure their leaders have good admin levels, 6+ is good, and good infantry rating. The first time he attacks and you send 50k reserves, his attacks will be fruitless. When you attack, put the divisions not attacking on reserve. No axis stack can take a 200k man attack, which is possible with enough men and good admin levels.

18. Put AS up between his airfields with planes and your beaches. This way he has to fly thru it to get there and they intercept a lot of his planes getting there.

19. Recon, recon, recon. Without it, you won't accomplish much so make sure you have at least two recon AD's from 8th, 9th, and 2nd RAF. Assign them just one priority each AD. This way they can take pictures of what your hitting and not wasting missions.

< Message edited by meklore61 -- 2/26/2015 4:26:52 PM >

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 4:05:31 PM

Q-Ball

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Listen to Meklore.....his initial landing was a bit of a disaster against me, with 2 Para divisions destroyed in failed drops that ran into SS Panzers. He also had his beachhead split in two, with a single-beach incursion like yours. The first couple turns I routed several units back to England. I think I could have driven him back into the sea, save for the Air power; I've lost 30000 men and over 300 tanks a turn JUST to airplanes, before any combat at all. That is unsustainable for the Germans. A couple turns of that, and the attacks will stop, and pretty soon you'll be able to push back. It will take a few weeks of max effort though, and you are going to lose a few thousand planes.

Without effective use of airpower, you are toast. Use it effectively, and there is nothing he can do.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 4:30:16 PM

JocMeister

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Meklore, you rock.

I wasn�t too far off the mark from your advice. But some things I did not think off and I got the altitude wrong on some places.

Have to work on my naval more. And pay extra attention to point nr 16...

All my bomber trained FBs are already transferred to 2nd RAF. They will probably behave like a small tactical nuke against any armor.

17 and 18 I didn�t even think of. Good stuff!

Oh, the reason I didn�t get any good numbers last turn was indeed altitude. 8th and 15th was bombing from 27k. BC from 23... Won�t do that again...

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 5:45:40 PM

JocMeister

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______________________________________________________________________________

D-day +2 After Air Phase
______________________________________________________________________________

Results are about as expected although WA losses are lighter then I thought. 2nd RAF is pretty much gutted though with the Typhoons taking 70% losses.

Its impossible to show everything that happened but here are some examples.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 5:49:20 PM

JocMeister

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______________________________________________________________________________

2nd RAF
______________________________________________________________________________

The Typhoons are pretty beat up. P47s didn�t take many losses but morale took a nose dive below 20 on all groups. Why?

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 5:56:47 PM

JocMeister

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______________________________________________________________________________

German losses
______________________________________________________________________________

Did a lot better in my AI game but still pretty decent results. No Tigers in sight. Yet.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 6:04:37 PM

JocMeister

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______________________________________________________________________________

Air losses
______________________________________________________________________________

Typhoons took a little bit less losses then I can expected. But 7 more weeks of this and I�m out of them. Heavy Bomber pools are golden with 1000+ of both British and US pools.

P47 pools are starting to get thin. Might have to switch some over to P38s.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 6:06:32 PM

JocMeister

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______________________________________________________________________________

Interdiction
______________________________________________________________________________

Sorted now with correct altitudes and help from Meklore.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 6:31:34 PM

Q-Ball

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That's some serious tank carnage! Nice job!

The price for such carnage is fatigue and plane losses. You can't sustain that pace, which is fine, because Germans can't sustain 600+ tank losses a turn. I know Meklore uses P-39 and P-40 over France, solely because you have those in numbers and can take losses. You may have to switch to those lesser types. Use the Hurricane IIC as well, it has rockets, and is probably in your pool in numbers.

You just don't get enough Typhoons to equip more than a couple dozen RAF squadrons in any sustainable way. Too bad.....

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 6:49:03 PM

marion61

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It's not sustainable. I have plenty of planes, but half are usually on rest now. Flying them like that for over a month is pointless. You lose way to many pilots just to OP losses, so once I've loosened his line up, they started resting at higher moral levels. My typhoons have took a beating, but the main push to get on is over and they can rest. It will take him several turns to restock his tanks and by then the typhoons will be replenished, and the P47-25 will be in production, and it carries rockets and gas.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 6:57:55 PM

JocMeister

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______________________________________________________________________________

D-Day +2 End
______________________________________________________________________________

This is the landing after the turn is done. We manage to smack Liebstandarte, Panzer Lehr and 26th Panzer around some. All three rout. This allowed me to shift the Canadians west and link up with the rest of the beachheads. Also freed up 2 more Ampibs which join the other two in preparation of a nice little OP I have planned. Those 6 Panzer IDs Pelton mentioned worries me though...

I even manage to reinforce with to solid armor divisions. Going by memory it was the 1st British Guards and 6 US armored ID.

I suspect Pelton will hit my center next turn and try to divide my beachheads. If he succeeds things will get very dicey. Not sure how much offensive power he has left now though? The HG is very beat up and the Das Reich and Hitler Jugend was hit pretty hard sitting in a 9 interdiction hex now. The 12th Panzer is also in a very bad shape with only 3 CV left.

How much more can I expect if he doesn�t release the 6 Panzers he mentioned?

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/26/2015 7:15:38 PM

marion61

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They can't be too far away, those 6 panzer divisions. Find them with recon and spend a day or two tank busting them. I'm not sure giving up the Canadian beaches was a good idea. You lost the ability to "hold at all cost" now. A taken beach is gone and you lose the benefit. Another few turns and he won't have any army left to stop you with. You slaughtered so many tanks that last air phase, I know that hurt his attack potential.

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/27/2015 4:14:07 AM

JocMeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meklore61

They can't be too far away, those 6 panzer divisions. Find them with recon and spend a day or two tank busting them. I'm not sure giving up the Canadian beaches was a good idea. You lost the ability to "hold at all cost" now. A taken beach is gone and you lose the benefit. Another few turns and he won't have any army left to stop you with. You slaughtered so many tanks that last air phase, I know that hurt his attack potential.

Yeah. Perhaps I should have let them stay. But the Amphib was so beat up I didn�t dare leave it there for another turn and without supply...this way I still have 5 hexes and the troops have supply.

I just need more time to use the air force. Question is if I�ll get it. If I loose another beach next turn I think I�m done for.

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