RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> After Action Reports >> RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/2/2015 11:24:41 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Joc, I my recommendation is trying the game again with somebody other than Pelton who is perhaps less interested in finding ways to break the game. You've had a frustrating experience here playing against a tester who has chosen to optimize the game to the nth degree and gave you absolutely no handicaps; this will almost inevitably result in absurdities in a design this complex. It becomes a race to the bottom to see who can do the most ridiculous thing. And I'm going to call out Pelton here for taking advantage of rookies.

Perhaps you are right and I should give it another go. I think I need some time away first though. We will see....

No blame on Pelton. I knew exactly what I was getting into. It was a good lesson and I learned a lot.

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 3/2/2015 12:26:31 PM >

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 391

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/2/2015 11:41:36 AM

marion61

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline

I'm not the best player, but on the other hand I'm playing Pelton, and I don't consider myself a rookie.

I do believe that most of people's frustrations are from not fully understanding the WA's. I also agree Joc, that knowing what you know now, things would be very different. WA's are very complex, and you have to plan, and you have to over plan sometimes, but it's a huge learning curve. The only thing the axis really have to do is stop what your doing to win, they don't really have to take risk like invading. I've played this game since May of last year and I'm still learning things.

There are things that require some tweaking, but from reading aar's most of the frustration I see is from not setting up enough naval, or setting it too wide an area, and invading far from your air cover.

This may not make you feel better Joc, but I've honestly learned more by losing than by winning a game. I play to win, but when I lose, the lesson stays with me. Anyone that wants to play a learning game, my challenge box is open atm. I'm no expert, but I'm willing to help anyone who wants to learn.

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 392

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/2/2015 2:31:23 PM

Seminole

Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

If so, this was unnecessary. MichaelT demonstrated that turtling up doesn't help the Axis cause. Rather the opposite.

IIRC MichaelT resigned in frustration because of a bug (teleporting HQs, or SUs or something like that). Pelton expressed confidence to the end in his gambit.

Again not true,
I RESIGNED and told MT why I played the game the way I did.

Ummm, the thread is still available on the internet.
You can look at it here.

"I have 70 odd sapper II and 272 sapper III. I would say 80% were in Corp prior to the bug. I have managed to get half the sapper III back in to Corp this turn. None of the Sapper II. I doubt I will ever be able to afford to re commit the II unless Pavel can help. I lost 2 battles I reckon I would have won with full sapper support. One shown above and another not. Plus probably 2 more battles I did not attempt due to the problem. Hopefully by March I will have recovered. But the 200 plus AP spent on reassigning Sappers won't be spent on new units. Unless Pavel can help me out." -Michael T

Michael T describes the bug here.

Later in the AAR thread:

"The bug is hurting but none the less the Reds are still going ok. Down around 300 AP now thru re-assignments. So lots of Corps not around due to that.
To summarise this is what the AI has done on recent turns:
Around 15 of my Army HQ's were moved to the rear.
Almost all SU assigned to Corp were sent back to the parent HQ's, this has occurred on 2 separate occasions.
2 HQ's disbanded.
Almost 100 Air Units sent to reserve.
Anyway the Red arrows show the main Soviet thrusts during February. Some weirdness around Riga. What is going on there?
I so want this bug nailed. I have Pelton by the balls damn it!"

With respect to you resigning, that's not how I remember it, and not what Michael T posted:

"Sadly it appears this game is over. The bug/corruption issue cannot be resolved. Unless Pavel comes up with an 11th hour solution. But that is unlikely and it would be selfish of me to continue to take up their time about an issue that is only occurring in this game. The problem to date has not been replicated. Yet it is clearly visible in the saves Joel has collected. He will be posting his thoughts on the matter in the next day or so after Pavel has a final look.
Considering the state of the game I had hoped Pelton might have just conceded but he refuses to do that. The best I could get out of him was 25% chance of a draw and 75% chance of Soviet victory. For me I have no doubt how it would have ended. Nothing has changed my view of the situation.
However, as much as I wanted to finish this game, it remains the worst gaming experience I have ever had in almost 35 years of wargaming. Pelton's attitude during the course of the game has had me vexed to say the least. I will leave it at that.
There will be no return game.
This mini rant is in no way a poor reflection on WITE or 2by3. Joel has been very supportive and keen to resolve the issue. I still enjoy the game immensely and will continue to play it. I have played around 20 games of WITE to date and have never had any issue like this before.
I have nothing more to say on the matter."

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 393

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/2/2015 8:00:41 PM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

If so, this was unnecessary. MichaelT demonstrated that turtling up doesn't help the Axis cause. Rather the opposite.

IIRC MichaelT resigned in frustration because of a bug (teleporting HQs, or SUs or something like that). Pelton expressed confidence to the end in his gambit.

Again not true,
I RESIGNED and told MT why I played the game the way I did.

Ummm, the thread is still available on the internet.
You can look at it here.

"I have 70 odd sapper II and 272 sapper III. I would say 80% were in Corp prior to the bug. I have managed to get half the sapper III back in to Corp this turn. None of the Sapper II. I doubt I will ever be able to afford to re commit the II unless Pavel can help. I lost 2 battles I reckon I would have won with full sapper support. One shown above and another not. Plus probably 2 more battles I did not attempt due to the problem. Hopefully by March I will have recovered. But the 200 plus AP spent on reassigning Sappers won't be spent on new units. Unless Pavel can help me out." -Michael T

Michael T describes the bug here.

Later in the AAR thread:

"The bug is hurting but none the less the Reds are still going ok. Down around 300 AP now thru re-assignments. So lots of Corps not around due to that.
To summarise this is what the AI has done on recent turns:
Around 15 of my Army HQ's were moved to the rear.
Almost all SU assigned to Corp were sent back to the parent HQ's, this has occurred on 2 separate occasions.
2 HQ's disbanded.
Almost 100 Air Units sent to reserve.
Anyway the Red arrows show the main Soviet thrusts during February. Some weirdness around Riga. What is going on there?
I so want this bug nailed. I have Pelton by the balls damn it!"

With respect to you resigning, that's not how I remember it, and not what Michael T posted:

"Sadly it appears this game is over. The bug/corruption issue cannot be resolved. Unless Pavel comes up with an 11th hour solution. But that is unlikely and it would be selfish of me to continue to take up their time about an issue that is only occurring in this game. The problem to date has not been replicated. Yet it is clearly visible in the saves Joel has collected. He will be posting his thoughts on the matter in the next day or so after Pavel has a final look.
Considering the state of the game I had hoped Pelton might have just conceded but he refuses to do that. The best I could get out of him was 25% chance of a draw and 75% chance of Soviet victory. For me I have no doubt how it would have ended. Nothing has changed my view of the situation.
However, as much as I wanted to finish this game, it remains the worst gaming experience I have ever had in almost 35 years of wargaming. Pelton's attitude during the course of the game has had me vexed to say the least. I will leave it at that.
There will be no return game.
This mini rant is in no way a poor reflection on WITE or 2by3. Joel has been very supportive and keen to resolve the issue. I still enjoy the game immensely and will continue to play it. I have played around 20 games of WITE to date and have never had any issue like this before.
I have nothing more to say on the matter."

Believe it or not I agreed to resign the game in an email to MT as he was clearly winning and its one of my 4 loses.

The manpower and armament bug had alrdy screwed the GHC OOB.

I resigned not MT not everything is a drama queen event on the internet.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Seminole)

Post #: 394

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/2/2015 8:03:23 PM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meklore61

This may not make you feel better Joc, but I've honestly learned more by losing than by winning a game.

I learned more also in my 4 loses then all my 25 wins in WitE.

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to marion61)

Post #: 395

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/2/2015 8:20:48 PM

Seminole

Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline

quote:

Believe it or not I agreed to resign the game in an email to MT as he was clearly winning and its one of my 4 loses.

I believe what I read in the thread as it happened over your selective revision.
My recollection was correct.
That months later when MT was willing to resume the game and you refused doesn't change that.

quote:

I resigned not MT not everything is a drama queen event on the internet.

LOL
You're quite honestly the biggest 'drama queen' I've seen in any wargaming forum - ever.
Which is truly a shame because you're a very astute player, and I intend to take nothing away from that, but as I pointed out to you on the WitE years ago your histrionics are a detriment to the points you try to make.

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 396

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/3/2015 12:27:48 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

I guess you all will be very thrilled (not really..

) to know I�ve decided to give WitW another go. AAR will be up in the coming days.

(in reply to Seminole)

Post #: 397

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/3/2015 2:08:52 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline

I am pleased. You will do better this time around, am sure of it.

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(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 398

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/3/2015 2:22:28 PM

marion61

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline

DAMN! Who talked you into that???

He must be pretty awesome!!!

(yes, that's humor)

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 399

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/3/2015 3:43:01 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meklore61

DAMN! Who talked you into that??? He must be pretty awesome!!! (yes, that's humor)

Or pretty mad...

(in reply to marion61)

Post #: 400

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/4/2015 8:57:27 AM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

Believe it or not I agreed to resign the game in an email to MT as he was clearly winning and its one of my 4 loses.

I believe what I read in the thread as it happened over your selective revision.
My recollection was correct.
That months later when MT was willing to resume the game and you refused doesn't change that.

quote:

I resigned not MT not everything is a drama queen event on the internet.

LOL
You're quite honestly the biggest 'drama queen' I've seen in any wargaming forum - ever.
Which is truly a shame because you're a very astute player, and I intend to take nothing away from that, but as I pointed out to you on the WitE years ago your histrionics are a detriment to the points you try to make.

Which Middle Earth vision of yours?

You given several just in this thread?

MT did not resign, that's simply a fact I did.

Drama queens make stuff up as you are not me.

�M
Here is the email from Dec 18th 2013., can we be done with the drama now?

What has been your hole miserable pt?

Why are you tring to make me look like sht?

Again what is your point?

�N

quote:

Do a turn so I can resign P (2)
People
�N
me

To
Michael Tonks

Dec 18, 2013

I really no time I have started a campaign in WitW and am giving my thoughts on any cheese I see in the rulesets. There is some sinky cheese, but they are nerfing it quickly.
You easly beat me as SHC so no real point there, play Flaviusx or Katza both very good and no worries about cheats.
Feel free to do a AAR ect.
I have my on going game with Saper and one I am about to VP out. Flaviusx is next in line then You if I have the time.
I am guessing I will be pushing WitW hard, tring to understand logistic's system and air systems, not easy for me I am a slow learner.

What do you want now my blood?

We did wait to see if the bugs could be fixed, but as we all know all games started under 1.07 was completely trashed and had to be started over or GHC OOB crashed for no reason - even if there was zero combat.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/4/2015 10:05:14 AM >

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(in reply to Seminole)

Post #: 401

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/4/2015 1:08:53 PM

Seminole

Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline

quote:

Which Middle Earth vision of yours?
You given several just in this thread?
MT did not resign, that's simply a fact I did.
Drama queens make stuff up as you are not me.

Not making anything up, just quoted from the thread that went as I recalled:

"Considering the state of the game I had hoped Pelton might have just conceded but he refuses to do that."
That was a post dated 2/5/13, when MT quit because of the bug.
I didn't get CC'ed on your email to him 10 months later that you didn't want to try to resume the game.
Oversight on my part, I'm sure.

quote:

What has been your hole miserable pt?

If you care to go back and look I was simply talking about the evolution of VP conditions in WitW.
You questioned my memory, so I simply confirmed it.

quote:

Why are you tring to make me look like sht?

I'm amused you think that requires an effort on my part.

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 402

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/4/2015 2:40:09 PM

RedLancer

Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

Could you please take this spat elsewhere - before someone posts something they regret.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Seminole)

Post #: 403

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/4/2015 8:32:48 PM

marion61

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline

It's taken me awhile to comprehend the Middle Earth references, but after some careful, and considered thought, I believe I have cracked the Middle Earth Code! Waahlaa! Behold, Middle Earth.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 404

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/4/2015 9:01:05 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

I though Moria was closer to Salzburg, along the Austrian Alps. I also attached a shot of Isengard, from which Saruman cast spells over the Brenner Pass:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 405

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/4/2015 10:22:45 PM

paullus99

Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline

"One does not simply walk into Mordor....."

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Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 406

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/4/2015 10:39:07 PM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
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http://lotrproject.com/map/#zoom=3&lat=-1315.5&lon=1500&layers=BTTTTT

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If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to paullus99)

Post #: 407

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/4/2015 10:50:30 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

"One does not simply walk into Mordor....."

I believe the American way is to roll in with Sherman tanks.

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Post #: 408

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/5/2015 1:10:13 AM

marion61

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline

Where's Berlin on that map Aurelian?

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 409

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/5/2015 1:16:03 AM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meklore61

Where's Berlin on that map Aurelian?

Mount Doom.

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If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to marion61)

Post #: 410

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/5/2015 7:09:02 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Isn�t the LOTR books meant as a loose reflection of WWI?

Seem to remember reading that somewhere.

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 411

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/5/2015 3:53:08 PM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
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In one of his letters Tolkien states, "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.

And..... http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+shell-shocked+hobbit%3A+the+First+World+War+and+Tolkien's+trauma+of...-a0154698400

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 412

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/5/2015 5:34:15 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Thanks for the link! Interesting read indeed.

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 413

RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 3/5/2015 11:41:16 PM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
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1V1=2V1

yes Middle Earth sht in WitE 1v1=2v1 =

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFTc-HUM6aU

So many of you are green horns and know so little.

When pigs can fly = 1v1=2v1

One of GG's insiders(RL friends) sent me the picture I posted in my thread that got GG to finaly drop the Middle Earth

1v1=2v1

Long Live GG

A true classic when a moron like me can get GG to drop Middle Earth rule sets.

anyone seen Saper222 lately :)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/6/2015 12:44:35 AM >

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