Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Turns 70-71: 4-17 November 1944

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> After Action Reports >> Turns 70-71: 4-17 November 1944 Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Turns 70-71: 4-17 November 1944 - 6/28/2015 9:48:42 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Turns 70-71: 4-17 November 1944

I'll conflate these turns as the weather worsened and it was mostly about moving up to the new front line and creating a supply infrastructure.

T70 saw a couple of useful victories. In the north I took an unoccupied Dieppe (this is, oddly, quite a prize as a level 2 port can be automatically repaired by a TF) and the death star helped out at Le Havre.



In combination that will help both with the amount of supply arriving in France and its allocation to the front line.

The other useful victory was to destroy a mountain division that I'd trapped the previous turn.



Some small stirrings in the east, first signs of a renewed interest in actually reaching Berlin.



On T71, the air conditions improved to cold/snow even if the ground in France remained heavy mud.

In turn I did a massive raid with the US 8 Air on the Ruhr. This did massive damage on the ground but I also managed to wreck the morale of the entire air group. Bomber Command were more successful at Hannover inflicting damage on the cities and the Luftwaffe. Day attacks on the German rail system, escorted now by Spitfires, shot down a lot of German planes



By the end of the turn, seem to back in contact with the Germans.



Over the last few turns I've deliberately left about half the army (and most of the armour) static. Helps shed fatigue and means they were still well connected to the supply network. So my frontline is vulnerable but I'm not really afraid of an attack, not least hard to see what the Germans would gain.

As my supply lines improve, and hopefully rain gives way to snow, I should have a well rested armour force with decent cv.



_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 151
RE: Turns 70-71: 4-17 November 1944 - 6/29/2015 3:11:08 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		Congratulations on liberating Paris! It took a lot of tough fighting to persuade the Germans to fall back like that. As for the Eastern Front picture, I would bet that Churchill, Roosevelt, and Eisenhower thought about the same thing as you.

How long do you expect until you will have serious ground operations again vs the Germans?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 152
RE: Turns 70-71: 4-17 November 1944 - 6/29/2015 10:31:53 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Congratulations on liberating Paris! It took a lot of tough fighting to persuade the Germans to fall back like that. As for the Eastern Front picture, I would bet that Churchill, Roosevelt, and Eisenhower thought about the same thing as you.

How long do you expect until you will have serious ground operations again vs the Germans?


it was a grim business but reinforced my suspicion that the Germans lack the units to pre-dig multiple lines and the admin pts for FZ spam. So once you comprehensively demolish a defensive line they have to pull back radically.

Its going to take about 4 weeks, need to find out where Dave has set up his new defenses (he has to try and fight west of the Rhine or he's at risk of me breaching that barrier when its frozen), then it'll take a few turns to sort out the supply lines. Found the hard way from my AI game that there is no point attacking off a weak supply base, no matter how tempting. better to wait an extra turn or turn and be able to hit hard and hopefully sustain the operation if you get a breakthrough

_____________________________


(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 153
Turn 72: 18-24 November 1944 - 7/1/2015 7:37:37 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Turn 72: 18-24 November 1944

Not too much happened this turn, moving up to the front and recreating a supply network.

One advantage of a few turns of limited fighting, and of liberating most of France is that the VP score is slowly improving. I can't see this ever becoming a draw but at least the relentless slide to an Axis major victory has stalled.



I've annotated that to compare with T68. Note how much taking Paris is doing for my score.

Here's the supply net before I created the depots for this turn. I tend to do this at the start of the turn and then work out where the rail repair units are to be allocated. At this stage I'm prioritising incorporating potential depot locations as much as actually building the rails up to the front lines.



Le Havre, is already proving a very welcome addition to my capacity to bring supply to France.

Bombing is really about hitting the German supply network. I've been refining this a bit, if you look at the map with the 'ground attack' filter on you'll see where the partisans have cut the German rail lines. That, in turn often pushes freight onto a single line and creates an attractive spot to bomb.

All my tactical bombers are having a well earned rest (as are the heavier bombers of 8 Air). Bomber Command is going for Hamburg as I've not bombed that for some time. The result was substantial damage.



Again, the Luftwaffe took heavy losses, mostly operational.



_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 154
RE: Turn 72: 18-24 November 1944 - 7/1/2015 1:30:37 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		What you need now is for the Germans to burn out their army in a doomed offensive. But Dave is a much more careful defender than Hitler was. Good luck as you continue, hopefully into Germany itself very soon.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 155
RE: Turn 72: 18-24 November 1944 - 7/1/2015 3:32:37 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

What you need now is for the Germans to burn out their army in a doomed offensive. But Dave is a much more careful defender than Hitler was. Good luck as you continue, hopefully into Germany itself very soon.


I'm starting to try and set traps to tempt him, but in snow I can't really generate the interdiction levels to make him suffer as much as I'd like .

Traps in this sense are to encircle a few divisions with a slightly flawed screen ... weak enought to tempt a counterattack.

My goals over the winter are to breach the Rhine while its frozen and trash whats left of his decent armoured formations.

_____________________________


(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 156
Turn 73: 25 November – 1 December 1944 - 7/6/2015 7:30:02 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Turn 73: 25 November – 1 December 1944

Weather was predictably bad this turn, so my response was to let most of the airforce rest. Supply lines are now mostly up to front, so its now really a case of waiting for my chance.



Should note that my structured repair effort is driven by two goals. One is to integrate towns and cities – this means I can set up depots. You can see the new depots as they are the ones just showing capacity (the black line on the right). The other is I am trying not to be reliant on just a single rail line if I can help it.

The situation west of the Seine shows the problem I have. I actually now am landing enough supplies (especially with Marseilles repaired and the two lines in the Rhone valley repaired), and am not too badly off for rail capacity in France (I tend to repair rail junctions as a priority). So the challenge is of delivery.

Where the line is shown as green rail costs are normal, yellow means there is too much demand on the capacity so the cost increases. In other words every yellow (or worse orange/red) hex takes up more of my finite rail capacity. So two parallel lines are much better than one.

This is going to have a huge impact when added to WiTE where at the moment you can support every Pzr division in the German army at the end of a single rail track.

Second bit of the supply distribution system is unit priority. This determines where the supply reaching a given depot is going to. At the moment, my two offensive armies (1 US and 2 British) are at #3 or #4, 1 CA has one corps at #3 (that is the formation clearing out the Channel ports) and the rest, plus 1 FF are at #2. US 7 and 9 Army for the moment is #1.

Just to keep on with supply a little longer, if you swap these priorities around, it takes a few turns to adjust. So ideally you need to preplan over a couple of turns if you can.

Anyway, here's some images of actual fighting:

1 FF tries to take advantage of a weakly held German line around Belfort.



More successful was XX Corps, which did what it does so well ...



This turn I moved up all the units I'd left on the Seine. They are now well rested and more importantly well stocked with fuel, supply and ammunition. I have one 18 cv infantry division and a lot of the armour is over 15.



My goal is to cross the Rhine before winter is over, when frozen that will be a lot easier than later on. For the moment, I plan a two pronged offensive. 2 British will try to break the German lines between Namur and Brussels and push towards Maastricht. 1 US is to attack south of Namur, clear the Ardennes and push towards Cologne. For both operations, taking Liege is going to be critical as it controls the rail links on this sector.

_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 157
RE: Turn 73: 25 November – 1 December 1944 - 7/6/2015 12:56:50 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		Do you have a rough estimate of how strong the German line is, say in comparison to the line they had along the Seine earlier?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 158
RE: Turn 73: 25 November – 1 December 1944 - 7/6/2015 1:49:46 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Do you have a rough estimate of how strong the German line is, say in comparison to the line they had along the Seine earlier?


its *weaker*, in that at any spot if I really concentrate I can break it - at a cost. Bit like in my AI game, I think the German army is now weak enough that they have to gaps somewhere. I've just sent T77 back to Dave and the losses are horrendous (feels like I am re-enacting Bagration but in Belgium) but it seems as if he can't quite hold.

Airpower and thus weather is the key as ever. One turn I struggled to get much interdiction and had to wade through a sea of reserve re-actions, this turn it cleared enough that I was able to suppress his reserves. The earlier turn I suffered for a lot of counterattacks, I'd be surprised if he managed that this time as for 2 hexes behind the front are pretty solid #4 interdiction.

My reckoning is that a normal infantry division can easily be a 1-1 ant (and struggles to get over 3 cv), the Pzrs are entering that phase where they are one-shot formations, still exceptionally deadly but I can grind them down and they stay weak afterwards.

Also the terrain is different. Before the Seine north of Paris was a solid invulnerable line, so he could either let me attack way to the south or closely contest the advance around Paris. Now river lines are intermittent so its almost always possible to attack around them.

final bit - this is a less well-prepared line. I think he'd starting setting up the Seine line in 1943, this is being dug as I arrive. I think Dave's logic is right, if he fights the winter on the Rhine I'll be over by the spring, so he has to fight the winter west of the Rhine and hope he has enough of an army to make that a real barrier for the end of game sequence.

_____________________________


(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 159
RE: Turn 73: 25 November – 1 December 1944 - 7/6/2015 2:09:08 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

final bit - this is a less well-prepared line.


Yeah that is what I was guessing (and hoping) was true. But you have less time ... it may depend on the weather dice. Good luck!

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 160
RE: Turn 73: 25 November – 1 December 1944 - 7/6/2015 3:42:33 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Great AAR. You need Antwerp! That port is the key to the Allied supply situation. Of course you have to clear all the waterways to the sea as well. Don't make the mistake the Allies made. You need to grab it and clear the waterway to it ASAP. Without it, you will always have major supply/rail issues in France.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 161
RE: Turn 73: 25 November – 1 December 1944 - 7/6/2015 5:35:59 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Yes, what Joel said. I have played to the end and not gotten Antwerp and had to fight the logistics all the way. With Antwerp I probably could have gotten to the historical lines, but I did manage to reach the Elbe in one hex.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 162
RE: Turn 73: 25 November – 1 December 1944 - 7/9/2015 7:38:18 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Great AAR. You need Antwerp! That port is the key to the Allied supply situation. Of course you have to clear all the waterways to the sea as well. Don't make the mistake the Allies made. You need to grab it and clear the waterway to it ASAP. Without it, you will always have major supply/rail issues in France.


thank you

I made that mistake in my AI game of bypassing Antwerp and suffered for it for the rest of the game. So far my opponent hasn't really tried fanatical stay behind port defences, be interesting to see how he handles the threat to Antwerp

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

Yes, what Joel said. I have played to the end and not gotten Antwerp and had to fight the logistics all the way. With Antwerp I probably could have gotten to the historical lines, but I did manage to reach the Elbe in one hex.



aye oddly I ran out of supply when I ignored more or less on the Elbe. So this time ... of course given that Dave very much knows what he is doing I'm not sure I'll ever reach the Elbe


_____________________________


(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 163
Turn 74: 2-8 December 1944 - 7/9/2015 7:43:22 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Turn 74: 2-8 December 1944

Start of December brings light snow on the ground but unfortunately blizzard conditions in the air.



So this hampers my air support but does allow ground attacks, after a bit of thinking I decided to start my attempt to push to the Rhine before the end of winter.

My VP score has improved a lot since I stopped actually fighting ....



I'll report the combat sequence in this turn with some detail. I think it shows the problem when your airpower is hampered by weather, but the dual advantages of letting supply stocks build up and concentrating your armour.

Opening gambit was the well rehearsed XX Corps + death star combination.



Calais is mine, Dunkirk next and as you can see I took Ostend and Bruges with no fighting.

Here's where I suffered for the lack of airpower. The result was masses of German reserve reactions. While its not an ideal tactic with the Western Allies (losses mean lost Vps), I decided on using an approach more common with the Soviets. Find a salient, hit it hard enough to force the reserves to react ...



and again, and again ....



You get the idea.

Now for the pay off (I hope). 2 British Army hits the German defences on the Brussels-Namur line hard.


(note no annoying reserves)

Then the tanks go in


(this time there was a reserve reaction but from a single infantry regiment)

Having cleared one corridor, time to complete the encirclement


(ok, so there are still more reserves)


My original plan was to then use 1 US north of Liege so as to avoid being trapped by the Maas/Meuse near Maastricht. The appearance of more damn reserves put me off that idea.



So instead 1 US swung south to hopefully attack where the reserves are used up. This reinforced 2 British, and the opening attack cleared those stubborn defenders



And then started to deepen the exploitation



Around Belfort, I made some gains. But I'll spare you that battle report.

So after all that slaughter, I have the start of a breakthrough and 8 armoured divisions that saw no action in this turn,



To put it into context, here's the losses for that turn.



I really need to able to put the tactical bombers to work on the German reserve formations.

_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 164
RE: Turn 74: 2-8 December 1944 - 7/9/2015 8:04:26 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

My VP score has improved a lot since I stopped actually fighting ....


That line is pretty funny.

The fighting and losses did seem more akin to the Eastern Front. As you said, without the tac bombers the Allies really suffer.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 165
RE: Turn 74: 2-8 December 1944 - 7/9/2015 8:57:01 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Start of December brings light snow on the ground but unfortunately blizzard conditions in the air.


Hmm. Blizzard usually means heavy snow. Afaik, L(mp) can't shift to blizzard.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 166
RE: Turn 74: 2-8 December 1944 - 7/9/2015 10:27:24 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

quote:

My VP score has improved a lot since I stopped actually fighting ....


That line is pretty funny.

The fighting and losses did seem more akin to the Eastern Front. As you said, without the tac bombers the Allies really suffer.


aye there is something depressing when you realise you outperform yourself on the turns you do nothing , also looking again it seems as if Dave got caught out with his EF allocation


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

Start of December brings light snow on the ground but unfortunately blizzard conditions in the air.


Hmm. Blizzard usually means heavy snow. Afaik, L(mp) can't shift to blizzard.


you're right . Double checked, I was trying to work out why my airpower was so poor this turn and so devastating in the next one. The issue was that this turn it was snowing in the air, next turn shifts to clear skies (and snow on the ground), the result is my tactical air feast on all those German formations.


_____________________________


(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 167
RE: Turn 74: 2-8 December 1944 - 7/9/2015 11:33:39 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

tactical air feast on all those German formations


Yummy! Sounds good!

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 168
RE: Turn 74: 2-8 December 1944 - 7/10/2015 5:28:01 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

quote:

tactical air feast on all those German formations


Yummy! Sounds good!


I'm sure that various animal cruelty laws actually say you really shouldn't feed Tigers to Typhoons ... but I'd recommend as the core diet of any WiTW game

_____________________________


(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 169
Turn 75: 9-15 December 1944 - 7/10/2015 7:51:30 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Turn 75: 9-15 December 1944

Not surprisingly last turn's slaughter made a huge dent in my VP score ... comes out of using the Allies as you'd use the Red Army.



First thing is yet again the Germans really were unsporting, yep they attacked.



Broke open the pocket but the units I'd encircled are still vulnerable.

Now the problem that is heading their way is that in my turn, the weather became near perfect, snow on the ground and clear skies.

Its time to eat ... just to make the point, note that SS Pzr Division which has 9 cv before the airphase.

So my air attack was a series of overlapping missions, some going for units, a lot of interdiction missions. Both the losses from last turn and that level of air cover should reduce the problems of massive reserve reactions.



But, before the main course, another port garrison is fed to the XX Corps-Death Star combo.



I'll not bother with the combat detail this time around. Key was that in a sequence of attacks I only had one reserve reaction to worry about, and that to the north of Namur where I'd put down less air power.



This shows the last of my attacks, an opportunistic hasty attack to inflict more disruption.



Note our friendly SS Pzr division is now stacked with a Pzr Grenadier division, its gone from being a scary 9 cv behemoth to a 3 cv whimp – purely as a result of a sustained air attack.

So theres the end, the divisions I trapped last turn should be culled next turn. I'd be surprised if the Germans can manage to counterattack as I have such high interdiction scores all over the front line.



Losses were grim again ... I forgot to take this at the time so its lost the in-turn data, but I've noted some of the main changes.



To me that turn hammers in the core message of WiTE. For the allies its all about airpower.

_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 170
RE: Turn 75: 9-15 December 1944 - 7/10/2015 2:03:59 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		Suppose, for the sake of argument, that you could trap and destroy a lot of the German units on the front line. Would that turn the VP around to give you a draw? Or if not, what would?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 171
RE: Turn 75: 9-15 December 1944 - 7/10/2015 2:23:33 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that you could trap and destroy a lot of the German units on the front line. Would that turn the VP around to give you a draw? Or if not, what would?


I'm not sure to be honest. While I have made small mistakes, I think the current score reflects how I botched the Italian campaign. If I'd done better then I think Dave would not have been able to bank all those partisan VPs (by being able to allocate larger than needed garrisons) and of course I'd have more city points. That might put the current score just outside the 'draw' range.

If I capture the Rurh and the Rhine cities that will help a lot - both the city VP and occupied German factories and manpower centres count as destroyed for bombing.

As such his army is only of value as a tool to defend his VPs, everytime we fight, I lose VP and it doesn't affect him (directly).

He's on a run of bad luck with the weather, I've just sent back the third turn in succession with clear skies so suddenly the Ruhr looks feasible rather than impossible to reach.

_____________________________


(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 172
RE: Turn 75: 9-15 December 1944 - 7/10/2015 3:31:15 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		What's the OB screen look like these days?

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 173
RE: Turn 75: 9-15 December 1944 - 7/13/2015 10:12:53 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

What's the OB screen look like these days?


I've included an overview in the next post. I'm ok in part as I've disbanded all non US AA units and a couple of the British army groups.

Its also clear that the recent patches have really sorted out the early problems with allied bombing - while I've not shut down (rightly) the bulk of the German industry I've managed to create a huge choke point around fuel production and tank replacements

_____________________________


(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 174
Turn 76: 16-22 December 1944 - 7/13/2015 10:18:28 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Turn 76: 16-22 December 1944

Again the Germans made some attacks. This time nothing decisive and I'd suspect they paid a high price in attrition for their efforts.



Supply situation. Notice that I now have 3 pretty large depots (Bruges, Ostend and Valenciennes) quite close to the front, I'm going to need that capacity as ammunition usage is out of control. So the additional capacity from the Channel Ports is very welcome, but I am more than using it up.



VP, reflects the fighting, not much I can do about this at the moment



Bombing, usual mix of really intensive ground strikes and interdiction. Only 4 engined bombers hitting the Reich now.



That generated mostly #4 interdiction with some hexes over 6. At the moment, with clear skies, I'm running my tactical bombers into the ground. They can rest either when snow returns or this phase of the campaign is over.

First attack was to eliminate the German units trapped in the previous turn.

As with last turn, the level of interdiction meant very few German reserve reactions. The opening set of attacks drove a deep wedge between Brussels and Namur. This will, hopefully, allow me to swing in behind Brussels and Antwerp.



Then I attacked south, I don't want to get trapped by the Maas below Maastricht, so its important to have one line of attack to the south of the Meuse. This was limited, but it encircled Namur and sets up an angle of attack for next turn.

Down in the south, 1 FF storms Belfort.



And French armour makes steady progress towards Luxembourg.



Combat situation at the end of the turn.



I'll put in the main industry and resource pool data.

First are my key pools.




(only shows the more important types or where I have some shortages. I think this confirms that using Hurricane II as FB {ie rocket armed} really pays off)

No real problems with aircraft. I've managed the recon plane assets better in this game and I have enough to get me to the end of game.

Here's some of the metrics.

Total men seems to reflect that the Germans are being ground down



Their armour has really suffered over the last turns. Its been the primary target of my Typhoons and Tempests as well as forced to fight time after time to try and stall my offensive.



This maybe another reason why there have been less armoured interventions. I have been bombing the main synthetic fuel sites and it seems to be paying off



In terms of aircraft, the Luftwaffe is notionally quite powerful



But the real issue is inexperienced pilots. Watching the turn resolution their operational losses have become huge.



Actual supply stores seem to be ok for the Germans, but I'm hoping that hitting rail yards and interdiction attacks on rail lines means little is reaching their front line units.



Here's the East Front. We have the EF box on, so no idea how to interpret that but Dave mentioned he'd had to send some stuff to the EF to stop Uncle Joe getting too feisty.



_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 175
RE: Turn 76: 16-22 December 1944 - 7/13/2015 10:31:34 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		It seems to me that you made good progress in that turn, plus cleaning out the small pocket. I'm surprised you lose VP overall for that. Are the combat losses really weighted against you?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 176
RE: Turn 76: 16-22 December 1944 - 7/14/2015 7:08:44 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

It seems to me that you made good progress in that turn, plus cleaning out the small pocket. I'm surprised you lose VP overall for that. Are the combat losses really weighted against you?


yes, had a sequence of 3 turns with clear skies and snow on the ground. In combination that is pretty deadly to the Germans. To be fair in this game, I think I've been lucky with the weather, it wasn't till November that I had to deal with heavy mud and so far winter has seen more clear skies than snow storms.

The loss-vp mechanic is one sided, ie its not a relative allied-german losses but purely constructed off allied losses. I think its right as the allies were the only side of the 3 main armies at this stage with constraints on the slaughter of their own troops.

Britain had to be careful as its manpower was used up, and many Generals had been junior officers in WW1 so were very unwilling to adopt anything like attritional tactics if they could help it. Cassino was seen by both officers and men as a bit of a betrayal as they were back to posting 'victories' where the gains were in yards. The US clearly had the manpower, but again was unwilling to see attritional style losses.

Most of the CW nations were very unwilling to let the British directly command their own troops. Again a legacy of WW1 where the Australians and New Zealanders in particular had a strong belief their units had been used as shock forces to minimise losses among British units. Not helped by the enthusiasm of some British commanders for hanging Australian troops out of the line and relying on them in combat.

I'm less sure this is true (at least the bit about protecting British troops), not least there is consistent evidence that the British high command was quite happy to take heavy losses in formations deemed troublesome. The Ulster Division (36th) took horrific losses on the first day of the Somme when it was thrown against the strongest part of the German line - it just happened to be mostly made up of people who had been in the UVF before the outbreak of war and who came very close to outright armed rebellion in late 1913.

So its one of the mechanics that force you to use the Western Allies in a very different way. The other reason not to do repeated attrition attacks is you can burn off your ammo stocks - which I managed to do after the end of the next turn. My supply lines are ok, but till I get Antwerp, they are fragile and vulnerable to too heavy demands.

_____________________________


(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 177
Turn 77: 23-29 December 1944 - 7/16/2015 9:39:01 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Turn 77: 23-29 December 1944

Another turn of bad news for the Germans with cold clear skies.



Gives you some idea of my bombing pattern, its not as chaotic as it looks as it mixes direct strikes on frontline formations with interdiction attacks where I think the reserves might be. That produced a decent pattern of #4 interdiction values for the key sectors.



Supply network is in pretty good shape. Taking the ports in western Belgium and the Pays Bas has really helped, even if the network is overloaded (all the yellow lines). Problem is all these sustained attacks are burning off ammunition quicker than I can deliver it to the front line units.



Ground attacks started by capturing Namur, and then making progress behind Brussels and towards Liege. To the south the French armour captured Luxembourg. The idea of this was to test if there were any major German reserves lurking in the Ardennes.



I then turned my attention to making gains south of the Meuse. As before my logic here is that if I stay north of the Meuse there is a real risk of being trapped by the Maas (at least till the rivers freeze).

This attack was pretty unremarkable but I think it shows that I am now regularly getting final odds >4-1.



End of turn, a decent dent in the German lines. I'm putting in a lot of pressure both to cut off Antwerp and Brussels and to the south of the Meuse.

Worth noting that a couple of divisions from US 3 Army crossed the Rhine and captured the Walcheren peninsula. Useful for opening up the supply line to Antwerp (when I take it) and as a threat to the northern flank of the Germans defending Antwerp.



_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 178
RE: Turn 77: 23-29 December 1944 - 7/16/2015 11:17:06 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100
The idea of this was to test if there were any major German reserves lurking in the Ardennes.



The Germans would never put armor in the Ardennes in December 1944. No, never.

BTW when will you take Bastogne?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 179
RE: Turn 77: 23-29 December 1944 - 7/17/2015 7:11:37 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100
The idea of this was to test if there were any major German reserves lurking in the Ardennes.



The Germans would never put armor in the Ardennes in December 1944. No, never.

BTW when will you take Bastogne?


exactly ... but one must always consider the outside possibility of a-historical behaviour

Bastogne et al is weather dependent, I've now learnt the hard way that there are few gains to attacking if my tactical air is grounded and after 3 turns of clear cold skies the weather is about to turn for the worse

_____________________________


(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 180
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> After Action Reports >> Turns 70-71: 4-17 November 1944 Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.586