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RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry

 
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RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/11/2015 12:39:48 PM   
NotOneStepBack


Posts: 915
Joined: 6/17/2011
Status: offline 		By the time your bombing any other targets has an effect, if it does have an effect, you have lost out on the bombing modifer for vps.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 91
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/11/2015 1:51:16 PM   
Smirfy

 

Posts: 1057
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		In my tests the Axis surplus's are huge which as I said in the oil/fuel leads to a level of redundancy which negates the effort of strategic bombing.

(in reply to NotOneStepBack)
Post #: 92
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/11/2015 2:04:57 PM   
Smirfy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky
In my game with DicedT the EF box is on. Which makes me wonder if I can help win the game faster, by helping the Russians get to Berlin faster, by bombing equipment.


IMO, with EF Box on, bombing AFVs is the most effective thing you can do. I wanted to try it in my game vs. Smokingdave, but I think it's so effective I didn't want to "break" our game to make a point.

There are only 8 cities that contain all PzIV, Panther, and StugIII production. Those are the 3 models that are the most important. You can add the Jagdpanzer 38(t) to that later; it's built in just one city. Can the Allies keep 8 cities in rubble? I think you can.

I would like to see somebody try it to prove the point. It will take awhile to have an impact as you say, but imagine what the Wehrmacht would look like with no Panzer IV, Panther, or Stugs.

I predict someone will try this, and then there will be Houserules against AFV bombing.....


Tank production unlike most other AFV production could not dispersed the Allies did not go after it until August 44. How viable in game is it to go after it before that? How quick do targets repair? What effect does weather have on bombing accuracy?

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 93
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/11/2015 4:16:27 PM   
LiquidSky


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With the EF box on it's easy to forget that the Germans are actually losing a lot of equipment every turn...although the mechanics escape me as I have only dabbled in the realm of EFing.

I'm not sure if I am noticing a degradation of bombing due to weather..other then the obvious Heavy Rain that prevents me from flying in the first place. I suspect that weather prevents some planes from flying, however, I am getting more and more planes during the winter, so overall it seems my bombing gets better.

It would be very difficult to bomb the AFV (or any other factory) to zero and keep it there. It would be trivial to bomb them and keep them damaged...however. If I haven't got an accurate picture from photographs, and the computer thinks the factory is damaged to 100%, it won't fly bombers to bomb it. And I am not sure how accurate picture taking is at 35k feet during bad weather.



_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to Smirfy)
Post #: 94
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/11/2015 4:55:31 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Weather impacts the accuracy of the bombing, not just whether planes will fly. Also can force picking alternate targets (IIRC).

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All understanding comes after the fact.
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(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 95
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/11/2015 5:19:11 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		Alternate targets? Think we could ever get an option to set that ourselves in game? And would you mind explaining how that works?

< Message edited by meklore61 -- 3/11/2015 6:31:34 PM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 96
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/11/2015 5:21:23 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meklore61

Alternate targets? Think we could ever get an option to set that ourselves in game?


+1!

(in reply to marion61)
Post #: 97
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/12/2015 2:37:36 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



With the EF box on it's easy to forget that the Germans are actually losing a lot of equipment every turn...although the mechanics escape me as I have only dabbled in the realm of EFing.

I'm not sure if I am noticing a degradation of bombing due to weather..other then the obvious Heavy Rain that prevents me from flying in the first place. I suspect that weather prevents some planes from flying, however, I am getting more and more planes during the winter, so overall it seems my bombing gets better.

It would be very difficult to bomb the AFV (or any other factory) to zero and keep it there. It would be trivial to bomb them and keep them damaged...however. If I haven't got an accurate picture from photographs, and the computer thinks the factory is damaged to 100%, it won't fly bombers to bomb it. And I am not sure how accurate picture taking is at 35k feet during bad weather.




I agree that it's very tough to completely terminate tank production; I exaggerated. But it's easy, IMO, to severely disrupt it, enough to be a game changer. A single bombing run should easily damage a factory say 70%; keep that up on a rotation basis, even with priority repairs, and production will be at least halved.

_____________________________


(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 98
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/12/2015 8:15:01 AM   
Smirfy

 

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Status: offline 		Does the Luftwaffe not have fighters?

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 99
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/12/2015 9:30:48 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		It only takes 50% damage to totally destroy all chances of production from a factory. So it is not impossible to keep eight or nine factories from producing during good weather. Which may be good enough.

(in reply to Smirfy)
Post #: 100
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/12/2015 11:17:14 AM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		It's not that the LW doesn't have fighters, it's that the airstrike packages are so small and harder to detect. You have less interceptions, but like the Cylons, I have a plan. I tried it out last turn and I got almost 500 level bombers. When a player starts after your HI deeper in Germany, just pull your fighter's from Lufflotte Reich, spread them out to cover all approaches to your heavier concentrations of HI. Jagd Korps I covers the Rhur and the approaches to the sub pens, and LW Reich I've spread out over Germany to cover it so that when he loses his partial escorts, he get slaughtered. He has a lot of bombers, but he will pay for coming deep into Germany while my fighters last. That was just one turn of results, but at least it looks promising. I'm getting killed by his SBP alone this game and he already sits at a minor victory. Spreading them out with two or one ag to a base increases the chances of detection and therefore interception.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 101
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/12/2015 1:08:19 PM   
Smirfy

 

Posts: 1057
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		Sounds to me there is nothing wrong if you can hit tank production do it. The Luftwaffe tactics plays cat and mouse with the Bomber tactics. As I see it,if the Luftwaffe is in Italy (or any other extremity) it's not defending the Reich.

(in reply to marion61)
Post #: 102
RE: Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry - 3/12/2015 1:35:30 PM   
LiquidSky


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Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

Alternate targets! That explains why sometimes my bombers seem to hit stuff that isn't on the menu.

_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to Smirfy)
Post #: 103
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