Advise on Air R&D, small factories.

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Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/22/2015 2:34:09 PM

el lobo

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From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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Re: Scen 2, PDU = ON

What do some of you do with the small r&d factories like the 0(1), 0(2)s and such?

If you want to keep r&ding the type a/c some of them will only expand to 0(16) or so. If I want to accelerate the a/c I would prefer 30. Do you switch other factories to that type? If you did not want to accelerate them, can you just let them go into production and then expand them further?

Do you just turn some of them off (Repair = No, and/or Prod = No?) and forget them?

If you switch type a/c, most stay or go to 0(1) and do not allow further expansion or limited expansion. Is there a rule as to how this works? It seems a little random to me but I need to play with it more but until I do, any hints?

There are so many of these small factories that I would like to have some idea what to do with them.

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/22/2015 4:40:12 PM

sanderz

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Joined: 1/8/2009
From: Devon, England
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pretty sure they can all upgrade to 30

then use them to R&D some of the important Jap plane types EDIT or convert them to any type of production though i think you lose a proportion of factories if you convert - save your game before doing anything and experiment a bit

< Message edited by sanderz -- 3/22/2015 5:45:08 PM >

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 2

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/22/2015 6:34:58 PM

DanSez

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Decide on a set of planes you want mid war and late war with importance placed on both army and navy fighters. Look for a couple of Night Fighters to research too. Carrier planes (Zeros, Judys, Jills) - include 4-5 (x30) research factories in your plans.

Convert most of your factories over to those planes
THEN expand them to 30

If you convert first, then expand, you will lose less factories than if you expand to 30 and then convert.
You lose a percentage of factories at the point of conversion.

Another note: also watch the supply level of the cities they are in.
If it is less than 10k, they won't repair. Use the Base screen (+ supply) to nudge up supply levels and monitor supply before doing anything. In the game I am playing Sapporo is being difficult as I expanded Engines, Air and R&D all about the same time and maintaining 10K has been hard the first 6 weeks of the war, slowing repair.

Ad as sanderz sez: Save your game before you start tinkering with Industry as there is no going back (no 'Undo').

(in reply to sanderz)

Post #: 3

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/22/2015 6:54:27 PM

DanSez

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Joined: 2/5/2012
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to your point
a 1x3 factory will do almost nothing to bring a needed plane forward.

Make it into something useful - pick a plane and expand it so it will have an effect on when the plane can be produced.

Another note: (assuming Realistic R&D ON)
If you want something like the 1st Armored Zero (A6M5c)
Do Not research it from the start.
Instead, set your research factories to the A6M3 and the very day those x30 factories are fully repaired, walk it up the research line to the A6M5c.

Factory - A6M3 (42/6) - will repair much faster than trying to research the A6M5c (44/10)
steps:
1. make sure you have supply in the city
2. convert (x factory) to A6M3
3. expand to 30
4. Watch the repair
5. As soon as fully repairs:
5a - convert A6M3 to A6M3a
5b - convert A6M3a to A6M3b
5c - convert A6M3b to A6M5
5d - convert A6M5 to A6M5b
and finally
5e - convert A6M5b to A6M5c (armored carrier based zero)

all the 5x steps are done on the same turn
** SEE the note about Saving your file before tinkering - if you flub up and don't save, you can't go back and redo it **

Good luck.

<<edit addition>>
If you are playing Realistic R&D OFF, then there is another path to take for the armored zero but the basic advice above on stepping thru upgrade paths apply to all plane lines.

< Message edited by DanSez -- 3/23/2015 2:51:16 AM >

(in reply to DanSez)

Post #: 4

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/22/2015 8:49:26 PM

sanderz

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isn't it quicker to change to A6M2 as they will just build one per day and then chnage one step at a time to the C version?

(in reply to DanSez)

Post #: 5

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/22/2015 10:27:07 PM

Chris21wen

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz

isn't it quicker to change to A6M2 as they will just build one per day and then chnage one step at a time to the C version?

The A6M2 upgrades to the A6M2 Sen Baku which does not become available until Feb 44, I never research or build the Sen Baku. Research the A6M3 and then through the chain. Once the A6M3a comes on line change production of the A6M2 production to the 3a.

< Message edited by Chris H -- 3/22/2015 11:29:18 PM >

(in reply to sanderz)

Post #: 6

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/22/2015 10:36:25 PM

bigred

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This is from my RA70 game. Warning the upgrades in senario 2 are different but I think this is a good format for your outline of production. I wanted to see exactly what planes need what engines. Or to be more precise, what engines go to which planes. I also wanted to define what I wanted to get rid of.
This chart was my beginning tool. My production strategy changed as I became more educated on this subject.
I needed yellow color code to help me see the engine changes as each model upgrades.

This is some of my changes as game progressed:
1. Ki45nick-increased frames from 13to15.
2. D4Y1 judy-R/D to 30
3. D4Y4 judy r/D to 30(look at the payload***)
4. Ki27 airframes turned on.
5. Ki49a Helen set to 30 per month. I may increase this later.
6. Ha31 engine increase to 70.(current 40 plus 30 per month for the Nick, may also increase this later but nick has only 5 sqns-3 in training).
7. Changed ha5 to Ha34 and expanded to 30.
8. Kotobuki change to Ha34 and expand to 25.
9. amakaze change to Ha34 and expand to 30.
10. Increased current Ha34 from 10 to 30.
11. Increased r/d on Tojo to 30.
12. Converted f1m2 pete to Ki44 tojo an increased r/d to 30.
13. Increased r/d on ki84 from 56 to 60
14. Increased r/d on ki43 to 30(probably a mistake)
15. Tojo plan starting for 60 and 30 helens(2x engines) means I will need 120 Ha34 per month. I may have to increase plant size later.

Other options. I almost increased the ki61 tony to 30 r/d per month but I have alot happening now and I want to see the effect on supply.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by bigred -- 3/22/2015 11:44:45 PM >

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(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 7

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/23/2015 2:25:04 AM

Skyros

Posts: 1570
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From: Columbia SC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanSez

to your point
a 1x3 factory will do almost nothing to bring a needed plane forward.

Make it into something useful - pick a plane and expand it so it will have an effect on when the plane can be produced.

Another note: (assuming Realistic R&D ON)
If you want something like the 1st Armored Zero (A6M5c)
Do Not research it from the start.
Instead, set your research factories to the A6M3 and the very day those x30 factories are fully repaired, walk it up the research line to the A6M5c.

Factory - A6M3 (42/6) - will repair much faster than trying to research the A6M5c (44/10)
steps:
1. make sure you have supply in the city
2. convert (x factory) to A6M3
3. expand to 30
4. Watch the repair
5. As soon as fully repairs:
5a - convert A6M3 to A6M3a
5b - convert A6M3a to A6M3b
5c - convert A6M3b to A6M5
5d - convert A6M5 to A6M5b
and finally
5e - convert A6M5b to A6M5c (armored carrier based zero)

all the 5x steps are done on the same turn
** SEE the note about Saving your file before tinkering - if you flub up and don't save, you can't go back and redo it **

Good luck.

<<edit addition>>
If you are playing Realistic R&D OFF, then there is another path to take for the armored zero but the basic advice above on stepping thru upgrade paths apply to all plane lines.

I was under the impression that you could not advance the repaired research factories to the next plane until the one it is researching came into production. My experience is that you wuld damage the factories and they would have to rebuild.

(in reply to DanSez)

Post #: 8

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/23/2015 6:01:39 AM

DanSez

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Joined: 2/5/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

I was under the impression that you could not advance the repaired research factories to the next plane until the one it is researching came into production. My experience is that you would damage the factories and they would have to rebuild.

I have been able to advance one by one, up the chain of upgrades on the same turn.

Skipping or straying from the upgrade path will cause factory damage and rebuilding.

(in reply to Skyros)

Post #: 9

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/23/2015 6:58:18 AM

sanderz

Posts: 862
Joined: 1/8/2009
From: Devon, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz

isn't it quicker to change to A6M2 as they will just build one per day and then chnage one step at a time to the C version?

The A6M2 upgrades to the A6M2 Sen Baku which does not become available until Feb 44, I never research or build the Sen Baku. Research the A6M3 and then through the chain. Once the A6M3a comes on line change production of the A6M2 production to the 3a.

but you can convert from A6M2 to Sen Baku to 5c in one turn as its still a valid upgrade path

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 10

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/23/2015 8:47:53 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanSez

to your point
a 1x3 factory will do almost nothing to bring a needed plane forward.

Make it into something useful - pick a plane and expand it so it will have an effect on when the plane can be produced.

Another note: (assuming Realistic R&D ON)
If you want something like the 1st Armored Zero (A6M5c)
Do Not research it from the start.
Instead, set your research factories to the A6M3 and the very day those x30 factories are fully repaired, walk it up the research line to the A6M5c.

Factory - A6M3 (42/6) - will repair much faster than trying to research the A6M5c (44/10)
steps:
1. make sure you have supply in the city
2. convert (x factory) to A6M3
3. expand to 30
4. Watch the repair
5. As soon as fully repairs:
5a - convert A6M3 to A6M3a
5b - convert A6M3a to A6M3b
5c - convert A6M3b to A6M5
5d - convert A6M5 to A6M5b
and finally
5e - convert A6M5b to A6M5c (armored carrier based zero)

all the 5x steps are done on the same turn
** SEE the note about Saving your file before tinkering - if you flub up and don't save, you can't go back and redo it **

Good luck.

<<edit addition>>
If you are playing Realistic R&D OFF, then there is another path to take for the armored zero but the basic advice above on stepping thru upgrade paths apply to all plane lines.

I was under the impression that you could not advance the repaired research factories to the next plane until the one it is researching came into production. My experience is that you wuld damage the factories and they would have to rebuild.

With realistic R&D on you can change them but deviating to anything that is not the next a/c in the path will result in damaged factories. I do not see the point it doing so though. I've never played with it off so can't comment.

(in reply to Skyros)

Post #: 11

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/23/2015 8:59:31 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz

isn't it quicker to change to A6M2 as they will just build one per day and then chnage one step at a time to the C version?

The A6M2 upgrades to the A6M2 Sen Baku which does not become available until Feb 44, I never research or build the Sen Baku. Research the A6M3 and then through the chain. Once the A6M3a comes on line change production of the A6M2 production to the 3a.

but you can convert from A6M2 to Sen Baku to 5c in one turn as its still a valid upgrade path

Yes! What you can't do is go from A6M2 to 5c this will result in damaged factories. What you have to remember is that by the time the Sen Baku or 5c come on line the A6M2 is severely out classed by the latest Allied a/c which is why I always change the A6M2 factories to the 3a then through the chain. That way you have the latest a/c in production, still out classed none the less.

(in reply to sanderz)

Post #: 12

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/28/2015 11:55:22 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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Just my .02 (and a minor correction). Also I'm talking about stock scen 1.

quote:

6. Ha31 engine increase to 70.(current 40 plus 30 per month for the Nick, may also increase this later but nick has only 5 sqns-3 in training).

First off the Nick uses the Ha-35, at least the first version which is the only one I intend to produce as there is little improvement in the others. I don't recall if I increased the Ha-31 production or not in my current game but I can assure you I'll not do it in the future. To me this is a dead engine. Why? Well the only aircraft that need the engine are the TopsyII's and the Dinah. Both of these A/C will be superseded by later models. The Topsy by the Helen transport, and the Dinah by the DinahIII which uses a different engine. Yes I know you can point to other A/C that use this engine early on, but I don't produce any of those. My best guess is that I need about 500 of these engines and I can then shut production off. I've already done this in my current game. I also have the DinahII production off as I feel I have enough, Topsy's I'm still building a few.

quote:

5. Ki49a Helen set to 30 per month. I may increase this later.

Yup, I did this too and then I realized the HelenIa is inferior to the Sally. Not by much but a bit. On top of that its sucking up part of my Ha-34 production which I'm trying to get to 500 so I can help advance my Tojo production. I know that some may point out that its got a MAD, but I don't think its that improtant. I'm not even sure if its available immediately (I know A/C radar for Japan isn't until some time in '44). So in the future I intend to researh the HelenI, but advance it to the HelenIIa and put that into production.

One last thing. I see talk above about armored Zero's. Yup, you can get 'em, and you may need 'em, but as carrier A/C they're a flop IMHO. Why, you may ask? Of course I'm gonna tell you . No range!!!

Once again the above is just my opinion (well most of it), your mileage may vary.

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(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 13

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/29/2015 1:14:57 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz

pretty sure they can all upgrade to 30

Thanks for the answer sanderz.

I suspect and hope that you are correct in saying that they can all expand to 30. What I was basing my above statements on is some experimenting I did the first turn.

At Gifu I converted the Ki-119 to the A6M3 and expanded the Tony. At Hamamatsu I expanded the Denko (not my real choices in my game). You can see from the screen shot that my expansions stopped before they reached 30. I suspect (an assumption by any other name is �) that the expansions stopped due to supply (screen-shot below) and I will be able to continue the expansions as supply is available.

Can anyone confirm this?

What this shows me is that I must prioritize my expansions and conversions early-on.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 14

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/29/2015 1:16:52 PM

el lobo

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Gifu before and after expansion.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 15

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/29/2015 1:18:14 PM

el lobo

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From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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Thanks everyone for the input.

What I am taking away from this thread is to convert and then expand or expand the small factories. I do not see anyone suggesting otherwise such as shutting them off.

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Post #: 16

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/29/2015 6:38:15 PM

sanderz

Posts: 862
Joined: 1/8/2009
From: Devon, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz

pretty sure they can all upgrade to 30

Thanks for the answer sanderz.

I suspect and hope that you are correct in saying that they can all expand to 30. What I was basing my above statements on is some experimenting I did the first turn.

At Gifu I converted the Ki-119 to the A6M3 and expanded the Tony. At Hamamatsu I expanded the Denko (not my real choices in my game). You can see from the screen shot that my expansions stopped before they reached 30. I suspect (an assumption by any other name is �) that the expansions stopped due to supply (screen-shot below) and I will be able to continue the expansions as supply is available.

Can anyone confirm this?

What this shows me is that I must prioritize my expansions and conversions early-on.

on the base screen go to the "supplies required" bit and click the arrow to increase it to about 4000 - this will then suck in supplies to that base and you should then have enough supply for your factory builds

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 17

RE: Advise on Air R&D, small factories. - 3/29/2015 8:55:01 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

Can anyone confirm this?

Yes. Although you're still gonna have to expand it manually.

You need to keep in mind that in order for a base to repair anything you need to have in excess of 10k supply. So if you have 2 or 3 items being repaired in a base you need 12-13k at the time of repair. Note that R&D facilities will not rerpair every day. In addition if a base is being expanded engineers will draw supply. As stated above click that supplies required button to draw supply to your base if you have the excess supply available. The base will attempt to draw 3x the number set. Also look at the base supply limit in the upper right corner of the screen, any supply over that limit will be subject to spoilage. So with some bases early on its a bit of a tightrope walk between what you want and what you can have.

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Post #: 18