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Might get this, finally - 4/17/2015 11:26:29 PM   
Alexander Seil

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/22/2003
Status: offline 		I've been thinking about finally getting AE. I actually have WitP on a dusty CD somewhere, but could never get into the campaign, mostly because it seemed to be filled with bugs and kept getting huge patches - I got it very early on.

It seems, however, that, finally, the game is ready.

Is AI at least somewhat competent?

Is the game playable on larger turn lengths? (It's not the # of units, it's the # of turns that's the scary part about a wargame like this)

Is convoy automation working properly?

Also, it seems there is still a lot of development on-going, at least semi-officially. So, if I were to buy, what does an up-to-date WitP:AE look like? What are the latest official/semi-official patches and critical mods? Is vanilla a good choice with the last patches?

< Message edited by Alexander Seil -- 4/18/2015 12:28:09 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/18/2015 12:36:14 AM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline 		I highly recommend getting WITPAE, I also like the Dababes mods. I was a long time lurker on the boards and got is about 3 years ago, I don't regret it one bit (expect once when I got all my carriers sunk by March 42! while learning

I've been playing wargames since I was a kid; started with Tactics II when I was a kid 4 decades ago. Played a variety of wargames both cardboard and computerized.

The AI is good, it has a lot to manage but it does well for the size of this game

Playability is the tough part of this game. There is a lot of clicking and record keeping involved, but then again, this is a huge game and I have yet to see anything of this size, scope and scale. There could be an improvement of the interface and less clicking but that would be a big undertaking and I have the utmost respect for what the developers have done with this game.

I do not expect there is any game out there of this size, historical accuracy and enjoyment. On a "per hour of play for $ spent, it is a steal.

(in reply to Alexander Seil)
Post #: 2
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/18/2015 12:51:15 AM   
Alexander Seil

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/22/2003
Status: offline 		To be honest, my main beef with the interface is how little stuff the map tells you. Having to click on a hex (or hover over a tiny box) to figure out if it's occupied by an armored corps or a platoon of Malayan porters is, let's say, less than ideal. Otherwise, the amount of clicks you appear to need to coordinate even a major offensive is much smaller than in a traditional wargame, where each unit is moved, each turn, manually, since TFs happily steam on their way and airbases keep sending out patrols; just need to set it up and let it run.

(in reply to jamesjohns)
Post #: 3
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/18/2015 4:13:16 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		This game is not for you. Keep moving.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Alexander Seil)
Post #: 4
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/18/2015 4:42:04 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		hi Alexander,

a) the AI seems both competent & v. aggressive, but can fall into operational patterns.

b) I have decent games vs. the AI using 2-day turns.

c) I don't use the convoy automation, or auto sub-ops. The 'CS convoy' system works well for me.

d) An up-to-date install would be:
1: the base d/l or disc program, then add
2: the 'latest official patch' (Patch 06, d/l from Matrix site), then add
3: the 'unofficial public beta' (Patch 07, d/l from the Tech Support section of this forum).

e) the DaBabes mods are huge fun, but I gather that most of them aren't useable vs. the Allied AI.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 5
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/18/2015 7:05:45 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alexander Seil

I've been thinking about finally getting AE. I actually have WitP on a dusty CD somewhere, but could never get into the campaign, mostly because it seemed to be filled with bugs and kept getting huge patches - I got it very early on.

It seems, however, that, finally, the game is ready.

Is AI at least somewhat competent?

Is the game playable on larger turn lengths? (It's not the # of units, it's the # of turns that's the scary part about a wargame like this)

Is convoy automation working properly?

Also, it seems there is still a lot of development on-going, at least semi-officially. So, if I were to buy, what does an up-to-date WitP:AE look like? What are the latest official/semi-official patches and critical mods? Is vanilla a good choice with the last patches?

quote:

I've been thinking about finally getting AE. I actually have WitP on a dusty CD somewhere, but could never get into the campaign, mostly because it seemed to be filled with bugs and kept getting huge patches - I got it very early on.

It seems, however, that, finally, the game is ready.

Is AI at least somewhat competent?

Is the game playable on larger turn lengths? (It's not the # of units, it's the # of turns that's the scary part about a wargame like this)

Is convoy automation working properly?

Also, it seems there is still a lot of development on-going, at least semi-officially. So, if I were to buy, what does an up-to-date WitP:AE look like? What are the latest official/semi-official patches and critical mods? Is vanilla a good choice with the last patches?


The game is great. Actually, there should be a note on the game's box warning you how addictive this stuff is. "May cause depression, divorce, unemployment, fits of rage, damaged wrists, insomnia". Worse than cigs.

(in reply to Alexander Seil)
Post #: 6
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/18/2015 7:57:14 AM   
Alexander Seil

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/22/2003
Status: offline 		The AI is pretty important - there's no way I'll be able to finish the grand campaign against a human, I think. It's good to hear that it works.

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 7
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/18/2015 8:38:26 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alexander Seil

The AI is pretty important - there's no way I'll be able to finish the grand campaign against a human, I think. It's good to hear that it works.
warspite1

Good to see you have not risen to, and ignored, the rubbish, petty, and unhelpful post earlier in the thread. Don't worry, as you see from the majority who posted here there are plenty of really nice, helpful people and if you want to ask more questions before making the outlay I am sure they will be only too willing to help.

Hope you make the right choice for you.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Alexander Seil)
Post #: 8
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/18/2015 2:22:47 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alexander Seil

To be honest, my main beef with the interface is how little stuff the map tells you. Having to click on a hex (or hover over a tiny box) to figure out if it's occupied by an armored corps or a platoon of Malayan porters is, let's say, less than ideal. Otherwise, the amount of clicks you appear to need to coordinate even a major offensive is much smaller than in a traditional wargame, where each unit is moved, each turn, manually, since TFs happily steam on their way and airbases keep sending out patrols; just need to set it up and let it run.



In real life, hovering an air recon unit over a village may tell you it is occupied, but it too may not differentiate soldiers from porters either..."The fog of war" is something nobody can ignore in a game as realistic as this one.

I have used the AI almost exclusively for 10 years, (or as long as Uncommon Valor and War In The Pacific have been out)..
Indeed, it works and the many scenarios made by fellow gamers keeps it very challenging.

< Message edited by m10bob -- 4/18/2015 3:26:20 PM >

_____________________________




(in reply to Alexander Seil)
Post #: 9
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/18/2015 3:28:19 PM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline 		The interface, and playability, of the game takes some getting used to, but after a while you will start to get the hang of it. I appreciate the difficulty of seeing information on the map, espically for friendly forces, it would be nice to have more specific information and details on the icons to see at a glance of the map.

But no game is pefect, but it is an outstanding game and I'll repeat myself, but I ahve not seen anything come close to it for scope & historical accuracy and hours of enjoyment. Well worth getting

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 10
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/19/2015 1:01:40 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		In addition to the 'unofficial beta' (which provides some great interface improvements), there are some great 3rd-party tools available - WitP Tracker AE & Combat Reporter are ones that I run concurrently w/ the game, & I'll fire up IntelMonkey pretty regularly. These programs read & display info from the WitP files, but don't talk back to them. They're essential tools for the warrior-accountant!

(in reply to jamesjohns)
Post #: 11
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/19/2015 12:21:23 PM   
kbfchicago


Posts: 359
Joined: 10/17/2009
From: NC, USA
Status: offline 		If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 12
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/19/2015 1:30:03 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.



You left out Drang Nach Osten when mentioning monster games, or as some call it.."The game the cat destroyed"...

_____________________________




(in reply to kbfchicago)
Post #: 13
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/20/2015 12:33:01 AM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		There are also AI mods that you can download and install by Andy Mac. Also, the new official update includes the beta work by michaelm. This game is 6 years old and has the largest and most alive following of any game in the Matrix catalog. You will fine a lot of help for your questions. New art you can DL. New map upgrades and styles. And of course a lot of new mods, Big and Small. Most mods will not work with the AI, but playing a Human player introduces a whole new set of possibilities. Enjoy....GP

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
DWU-Beta Tester
TOAW4-Alpha/Beta Tester

"Do everything you ask of those you command"....Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 14
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/20/2015 12:57:43 AM   
paradigmblue

 

Posts: 784
Joined: 9/16/2014
From: Fairbanks, Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.


As a counterpoint, I have never enjoyed table-top games, or war-games of any type. Before WitP:AE, I would immediately make a decision not to buy a game if I heard the words "Grognardy" or "Hex-Based". I read a few AARs, however, and decided to give it a try. I was immediately hooked.

So while those that are giving you advice that you need to be a type of person that has enjoyed incredibly detailed, micro-management style games in the past to enjoy WitP:AE, that's not the case. WitP:AE weaves it's own magic, and while yes, it is brain-breaking in it's minutiae, it is also one of the most satisfying games I have ever played.

(in reply to kbfchicago)
Post #: 15
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/20/2015 2:02:38 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paradigmblue


quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.


As a counterpoint, I have never enjoyed table-top games, or war-games of any type. Before WitP:AE, I would immediately make a decision not to buy a game if I heard the words "Grognardy" or "Hex-Based". I read a few AARs, however, and decided to give it a try. I was immediately hooked.

So while those that are giving you advice that you need to be a type of person that has enjoyed incredibly detailed, micro-management style games in the past to enjoy WitP:AE, that's not the case. WitP:AE weaves it's own magic, and while yes, it is brain-breaking in it's minutiae, it is also one of the most satisfying games I have ever played.

Who could have said it better................

_____________________________




(in reply to paradigmblue)
Post #: 16
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/20/2015 11:23:51 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

This game is not for you. Keep moving.


Now, now Moose...

Seriously though, if you're not willing to invest a lot of time move on. I've been playing war games for five decades and I have found this one to be among the top, but trying to become a competent player will consume many, many hours. This is not to say the game isn't enjoyable, and you don't have to do a full campaign to get satisfaction. One thing you can count on here is lots of help. I doubt I'd be able to play at all if not for the forum. So, if you like amazing depth and detail jump in, the water's fine. Whatever you choose, good luck.




_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 17
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/21/2015 3:20:06 AM   
Alexander Seil

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/22/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paradigmblue


quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.


As a counterpoint, I have never enjoyed table-top games, or war-games of any type. Before WitP:AE, I would immediately make a decision not to buy a game if I heard the words "Grognardy" or "Hex-Based". I read a few AARs, however, and decided to give it a try. I was immediately hooked.

So while those that are giving you advice that you need to be a type of person that has enjoyed incredibly detailed, micro-management style games in the past to enjoy WitP:AE, that's not the case. WitP:AE weaves it's own magic, and while yes, it is brain-breaking in it's minutiae, it is also one of the most satisfying games I have ever played.


I'm the kind of person who enjoys the big TOAW scenarios. In moderation. Never touched a board wargame in my life, though.

Looking at WitP, it's not really the map that's concerning, but the length. I didn't want to go through three weeks of play only to realize that the AI is brain-dead, so what people have said is encouraging.

(in reply to paradigmblue)
Post #: 18
RE: Might get this, finally - 4/21/2015 11:30:18 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

If your preference in table top games includes "monster" games such as the Europa series by GDW, The Longest Day by AH, World In Flames by ADG, etc... WITP-AE is definitely for you. One of the very few monster computer games that balances what we do as players and what the computer does for us in a manner that let's (and restricts) the play to operational level control. The AI here (as folks often overlook) is not just about the opposing side, the game does a fantastic (fairly realistic) job of modeling and "playing" for your side at as well...flight paths, maintenance, accidents, mine sweeping, et.al.. Not perfect, but very, very good, and as note above...very, very addicting! My 2 cents.



You left out Drang Nach Osten when mentioning monster games, or as some call it.."The game the cat destroyed"...


DNO was the predecessor to the Europa series. In Europa DNO was split into Fire in the East and Scorched Earth.

The analogy is consistent. Many of us regulars here were mega-board gamers back in the day.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 19
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