RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/9/2016 12:08:43 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

Thanks again Pax.

CHINA Nov 28, 1942 Turn 357

I'm felling a little better at CK. My AV is creeping back up and supply is good. I am moving my Command HQ down from Kienko and getting an Air HQ ready to fly into Kweiyang which according to Lowpe should help my bombing.

I bombed and bombarded today.

I also moved into Chengtu to day.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 9290 troops, 579 guns, 695 vehicles, Assault Value = 3856

Defending force 181266 troops, 723 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4931

Allied ground losses:
457 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 601

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/12/2016 10:00:29 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

PRODUCTION Dec 1, 1942 Turn 360

Six days short of a year. Here is how we are doing.

Here is what accelerated in Nov '42

Tojo IIc 4/43
Tony 100-I 11/44
Oscar -4-IIIa 2/44
Oscar -43-IV 6/44
D4Y3 Judy 5/44
H8K2 Emily 1/43

Ha-45 went into production 1 Dec. 170 factories at five locations.

The Sally went from the IIa to the IIb.

Fuel in the H.I.s is still dropping although not as fast as some is being unloaded. It should start coming back-up in a month or two.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by el lobo -- 7/12/2016 10:04:01 AM >

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 602

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/12/2016 10:11:23 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

CHINA Date: Forever. Turn: Ad nauseam

Move along folks, nothing is BORKED here.

Ground combat at 80,39 (near Tienshui) with air strikes spaced in between.

Japanese Deliberate attack

Oct 14, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 2942 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 106

Defending force 4791 troops, 34 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 64

Japanese adjusted assault: 48

Allied adjusted defense: 64

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-) <---------------------------------------------------------------------- ZERO (Via Rio after subsequent discussions.)
Attacker: leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
28 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
94 casualties reported

Assaulting units:
4th Garrison Unit

Defending units:
4th Chinese Corps

Oct 26, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3024 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 115

Defending force 4764 troops, 34 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 69

Japanese adjusted assault: 115

Allied adjusted defense: 175

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker: leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
91 casualties reported

Oct 28, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3024 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 115

Defending force 4693 troops, 34 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 61

Japanese adjusted assault: 50

Allied adjusted defense: 79

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker: leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
72 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
157 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 16 disabled

Oct 30, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 2945 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 107

Defending force 4552 troops, 33 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 48

Japanese adjusted assault: 110

Allied adjusted defense: 73

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker: leaders(+)

Nov 5, '42
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 2997 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 112

Defending force 4397 troops, 21 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 34

Japanese adjusted assault: 58

Allied adjusted defense: 70

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker: leaders(+), leaders(-)

Nov 9, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3019 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 115

Defending force 4354 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 45

Japanese adjusted assault: 25

Allied adjusted defense: 76

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker: leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
40 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
88 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 9 disabled

Nov 15, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3714 troops, 10 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 173

Defending force 4249 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 43

Japanese adjusted assault: 114

Allied adjusted defense: 58

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), experience(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
264 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 21 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
4th Garrison Unit

Defending units:
4th Chinese Corps

Nov 16, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3714 troops, 10 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 172

Defending force 3971 troops, 7 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 17

Japanese adjusted assault: 118

Allied adjusted defense: 58

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
256 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 13 disabled

Nov 17, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3748 troops, 10 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 175

Defending force 3809 troops, 6 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Japanese adjusted assault: 119

Allied adjusted defense: 34

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), fatigue(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
274 casualties reported
Squads: 31 destroyed, 0 disabled

Nov 19, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3765 troops, 10 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 176

Defending force 3548 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3

Japanese adjusted assault: 177

Allied adjusted defense: 31

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
504 casualties reported
Squads: 45 destroyed, 0 disabled

Nov 21, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3790 troops, 10 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 177

Defending force 3209 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7

Japanese adjusted assault: 150

Allied adjusted defense: 28

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
213 casualties reported
Squads: 15 destroyed, 0 disabled

Nov 24, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3806 troops, 10 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 178

Defending force 3048 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Japanese adjusted assault: 114

Allied adjusted defense: 19

Japanese assault odds: 6 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-) ZERO
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
269 casualties reported
Squads: 36 destroyed, 0 disabled

Nov 26, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3807 troops, 10 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 178

Defending force 2802 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Japanese adjusted assault: 156

Allied adjusted defense: 10

Japanese assault odds: 15 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
morale(-), experience(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker: fatigue(-)

Allied ground losses:
155 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 0 disabled

Nov 28, '43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3816 troops, 10 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 179

Defending force 2662 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3

Japanese adjusted assault: 152

Allied adjusted defense: 7

Japanese assault odds: 21 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
morale(-), experience(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
279 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 17 disabled

Nov 30 '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3816 troops, 10 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 179

Defending force 2415 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 156

Allied adjusted defense: 7

Japanese assault odds: 22 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
morale(-), experience(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
94 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled

Dec 1 '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacking force 3816 troops, 10 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 232

Defending force 2286 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 153

Allied adjusted defense: 4

Japanese assault odds: 38 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
morale(-), experience(-), supply(-) ZERO
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
161 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
4th Garrison Unit

Defending units:
4th Chinese Corps

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 603

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/12/2016 11:52:49 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

CHINA Dec 1, 1942 Turn 360

The latest CK bombardment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 9290 troops, 579 guns, 695 vehicles, Assault Value = 4084

Defending force 182143 troops, 721 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4992

Allied ground losses:
196 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 18 disabled

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 604

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/12/2016 2:49:08 PM

Mike McCreery

Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline

You probably know this but I dont know if everyone does.

There is general supply available for use and combat purposes and we transfer it all over the board.

Then there is an internal supply for each unit. It slowly goes to 0 over time. With smaller units it goes faster than with larger units. So, the supply at a base can be 0 but the unit still has it's internal supply until that is exhausted. After that point it can still fight at 1/4 effectiveness until defeated.

A unit that is not completely surrounded could also be taking supply internally with the base still registering 0 supply.

Another issue I have had with taking out stubborn holdouts is that you need a good detection level to get a good attack. If you are not reconning the hex with enough aircraft you cant get a good sighting on who you are trying to kill.

< Message edited by Wargmr -- 7/12/2016 2:52:32 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 605

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/13/2016 1:35:49 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

Everything wargmr states plus:
1. armor alone in bad terrain seems to struggle to finish battles against INF. I've always just said to myself it because its hard to pin them down. The INF has escape routes in the rugged terrain where the armor can't get them.

2. when attacking/defending forces are numerically about the same and SMALL it also seems hard to finish off units. Again, I justify this to myself it because in a 40 sq mi area, 3000 guys have a lot of space to fall back to and the other side can't form a tight cordorn to prevent them from slipping through their lines to another area.

The plus side of these fights is that your units involved usually gain a LOT of exp and eventually you do win.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Mike McCreery)

Post #: 606

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/13/2016 1:40:02 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

CHINA Dec 1, 1942 Turn 360

The latest CK bombardment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 9290 troops, 579 guns, 695 vehicles, Assault Value = 4084

Defending force 182143 troops, 721 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4992

Allied ground losses:
196 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 18 disabled

Don't know if I stated this here to you or not, but I am not a fan of bombardment. Yes, you just killed 5 squads and disrupted a bunch. But all those 20 exp units are now 21 exp. You keep doing it and they are 30 exp. My point being is that my experience is that they gain exp faster, which really hurts the combat odds, than you can inflict casualties. I'm a minority on this and I know it, but I am not alone in this.

I use air bombardment mercilessly. At this point I would have sorties of ~1000 Sally/Helens hitting every turn. Yeah, a lot of supply, but there is no exp gain from aerial bombardment in my experience.

Just my $0.02.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 607

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/13/2016 2:06:05 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

Thank you for your replies Wargmr and Pax.

I have an inkling about what you are talking but not your depths for sure.

Rio and I have been having a lot of fun joking about this unit and their persistence. They are legend of their own now. We each have our favorite name for the 4th Corps. His is the "Fighting Forth," my name starts with an "F" also.

Rio informed to me that this unit has not had any supply before or since they moved into the hex. It just seems strange to me that being attack for this length of time and with these odds that they can hold-out this long.

Here are today's results and a comparison as to what I feel should be more typical. As you can see from the screen-shot below, they are not in a base and they are not surrounded. (And you can see Pax, there is infantry there also.)

My 11th Tank Regiment is on the way to help them out. * laughing *

Dec 2, '42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 80,39 (near Tienshui)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3126 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 232

Defending force 2131 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 64

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 64 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
morale(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
74 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
4th Garrison Unit

Defending units:
4th Chinese Corps

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Tienshui (81,38)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 960 troops, 0 guns, 144 vehicles, Assault Value = 81

Defending force 2500 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 33

Japanese adjusted assault: 84

Allied adjusted defense: 40

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Tienshui !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Allied ground losses:
2600 casualties reported
Squads: 86 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 239 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
11th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
42nd Chinese Corps

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 608

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/13/2016 2:15:46 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Don't know if I stated this here to you or not, but I am not a fan of bombardment. Yes, you just killed 5 squads and disrupted a bunch. But all those 20 exp units are now 21 exp. You keep doing it and they are 30 exp. My point being is that my experience is that they gain exp faster, which really hurts the combat odds, than you can inflict casualties. I'm a minority on this and I know it, but I am not alone in this.

I use air bombardment mercilessly. At this point I would have sorties of ~1000 Sally/Helens hitting every turn. Yeah, a lot of supply, but there is no exp gain from aerial bombardment in my experience.

Just my $0.02.

I don't think you have. I did not realize that they built experience, I was more concerned on keeping forts from being rebuilt.

I will heed your advise and keep bringing in air. (They have been bombed almost daily but not much.)

Thanks.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 609

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/13/2016 3:10:47 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

I'm sure some others will pipe in here that do use bombardment and offer the other side. Just wanted you to at least be cognizant of the exp gain. It is real. Like most things, it is greater at low exp and slows down drastically when the units approach 50 exp.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 610

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/13/2016 1:43:13 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I'm sure some others will pipe in here that do use bombardment and offer the other side. Just wanted you to at least be cognizant of the exp gain. It is real. Like most things, it is greater at low exp and slows down drastically when the units approach 50 exp.

I hope they do as I am always interested in all sides of the situation.

In the meantime I will keep bringing in more air. I don't think anyone will argue against that. I won't be very close to ~1000 though.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 611

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/13/2016 2:43:24 PM

Andav

Posts: 474
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Rio informed to me that this unit has not had any supply before or since they moved into the hex.

Looking at the image you posted showing hex side control, it looks like all the interior hex sides are red with the exception of one which has a Japanese unit occupying the adjacent hex (the one south west). They can't retreat and they can't get supplies. I would shock attack with just the tanks and then follow up with a deliberate attack. The Chinese have nothing to kill the tanks.

I am also with Pax on the bombardments. The gain is not worth the cost. Air attacks day after day after day is what works.

Wa

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 612

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/13/2016 2:55:27 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

Thanks Andav.

I will let you know how it goes.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Andav)

Post #: 613

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/16/2016 11:13:06 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

CHINA Dec 3, 1942 Turn 362

The Shock Attack did the trick.

All Bombardments CNX.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 80,39 (near Tienshui)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 1635 troops, 0 guns, 218 vehicles, Assault Value = 232

Defending force 2047 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 160

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 160 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
morale(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Allied ground losses:
2067 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 238 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 614

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/27/2016 1:34:03 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

BURMA Dec 15, 1942 Turn 374

Pressure is mounting in Burma.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 55,48 (near Ramree Island)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 36461 troops, 377 guns, 879 vehicles, Assault Value = 1877

Defending force 960 troops, 11 guns, 60 vehicles, Assault Value = 41

Japanese adjusted assault: 907

Allied adjusted defense: 4

Japanese assault odds: 226 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), leaders(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
139 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
376 casualties reported
Squads: 23 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 56 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 11 (11 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 45 (45 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 615

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/30/2016 2:36:34 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

CHINA Dec 18, 1942 Turn 377

This fort reduction cost me1200 AV.

We will DA CK in three or four days.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chengtu (75,41)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 66986 troops, 951 guns, 636 vehicles, Assault Value = 2127

Defending force 126309 troops, 268 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3718

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 669

Allied adjusted defense: 8063

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 12 (fort level 1)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
12198 casualties reported
Squads: 115 destroyed, 1143 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 167 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 165 disabled
Guns lost 230 (13 destroyed, 217 disabled)
Vehicles lost 60 (3 destroyed, 57 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1900 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 74 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 53 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 616

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 7/30/2016 3:55:58 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

You don't have near enough forces present to take CK ... not with those AV odds at FL=1 ...
can't tell you for sure, but this looks bad.

i'd estimate you need

- 6 - 8 more ID's to crack this, maybe more, to get more comparable force ratios
- you haven't got his forces disorganized enough.

the second one might be due to several things:
- too high exp
- too high morale
- too low fatigue

the only thing you can do about that is increase bombardment drastically ...

I mentioned before you might be too late here ... i've never tried this late to take CK ... the latest I've ever had CK fort down to zero was early Sept ... this is mid-Dec ... 70 days is a long time in terms of exp and morale ...

We need some other players to chime in who might have been later with CK to see what they know ...

EDIT: now actually taking CK in dec, sure. But I had the forts down way before. it takes a long time once the forts are down to take CK ... at least 10 attacks with ~10 days in between attacks ... a long time ....

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 7/30/2016 3:57:39 PM >

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Post #: 617

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/4/2016 2:05:50 PM

el lobo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

i'd estimate you need

- 6 - 8 more ID's to crack this, maybe more, to get more comparable force ratios

That would be nice but I just don't have them. We will just have to do with what we have.

But that is just part of the problem.

BURMA Dec 22, 1942 Turn 381

Burma under siege.

If anyone doubts the value of BSR, doubt no more.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 618

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/5/2016 1:29:40 AM

PaxMondo

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No, same problem. You're late taking CK, which gives the allies the opportunity to intervene in Burma while your forces are stuck in CK. He's doing the right things here, you need to figure out how to get back ahead of him and re-take the initiative ...

Hopefully some other PBEM players will pipe up here ... If this was one of my AI games, I would have to be really considering bailing on CK ... you can't lose north burma or you will NOT take CK. he will be able to get too much supply into CK. The unit numbers he is showing there means the US Army has shown up big (no surprise, pretty standard move), so .... what to do .... need some other thoughts here. As I've said, I have never been in this time frame with CK so I don't know what you are facing there in terms of unit strength.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 8/5/2016 1:33:59 AM >

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Post #: 619

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/7/2016 2:19:45 PM

el lobo

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BURMA Dec 24, 1942 Turn 383

Well, while I am trying to figure a way out of this pickle, let's have some fun.

I had some good coordinated air attacks on ground units yesterday and today.

Today he struck back a Shwebo. I started with a good CAP but he eventually wore it down.

I have lost a lot of Oscars because I am trying different attacks. I lost the Jakes when an AV that was on recon patrol near Marcus got sunk. I have decided that AVs are sitting ducks and am pulling them all back, training the a/c in ASW, and use them for convoy escort later.

Two of the better ground attacks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Burma Brigade, at 56,47 , near Magwe

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 9
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 10
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 6
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 37

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied ground losses:
252 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 25 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 17
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 24

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied ground losses:
176 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

The Allied waves. Shwebo ended-up with twenty-six airfield damage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shwebo , at 59,45

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 21
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 6
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 9
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 1

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 14

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 7 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 10

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allied aircraft
B-26 Marauder x 10

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 12

B-17F Fortress x 12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 12
B-17F Fortress x 12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allied aircraft
B-26 Marauder x 15

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 10

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 620

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/7/2016 6:19:06 PM

PaxMondo

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AV's are great for ASW and for long range NavSearch/Recon ... but once discovered, you gotta scoot. I use them a lot, convert a fair number of xAK's to AV's ... IJ Intel is terrible so you have to make that up with a lot of NavSearch and Recon

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/13/2016 1:55:20 PM

el lobo

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BURMA Dec 30, 1942 Turn 389

I am not sure what Rio plans for Burma are right now. He had a single, small unit in Shwebo. I did not attack it as I figured it was on recon by death. At the time I had 12K+ AV behind forts six. The unit has since moved-out and he is in the process of surrounding Shwebo, I think.

He has moved a lot of units down the valley despite many well coordinated but useless bombings. I think he is headed toward Prome with his units in the woods next to Ramree. He is also moving to Toungoo I think to block supplies.

What I find interesting is his movements around Lashio and Paoshan. Is he trying to open the route to China? He is in for what I hope is a rude surprise in a couple of turns. Two IDs just moved into Paoshan and are moving west. I have two more IDs at Kunming moving to Burma. I hope they arrive in time to do something besides count bodies.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 622

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/13/2016 2:28:24 PM

el lobo

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CHINA Dec 30, 1942 Turn 389

I DAed CK today and got my rear-end handed to me again. It would not be so bad if I had reduced forts. He got a supply malus and my bombing are not meeting any flack. Oh well, next month.

Something interesting is happening in and around CK, I think in coordination with his easterly move in Burma. He is moving units out of CK. A couple of weeks ago he had 116 units in CK, now he has 102. They are presently in the planes.

It appears that they may be a little easier to kill there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 174989 troops, 2123 guns, 1582 vehicles, Assault Value = 5553

Defending force 177085 troops, 687 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 5294

Japanese adjusted assault: 1096

Allied adjusted defense: 19839

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 18 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
34234 casualties reported
Squads: 303 destroyed, 1884 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 326 disabled
Engineers: 55 destroyed, 186 disabled
Guns lost 249 (13 destroyed, 236 disabled)
Vehicles lost 71 (3 destroyed, 68 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
7154 casualties reported
Squads: 46 destroyed, 451 disabled
Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 225 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 33 disabled
Guns lost 72 (10 destroyed, 62 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 75,45 (near Chungking)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 14426 troops, 94 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 517

Defending force 5422 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 229

Japanese adjusted assault: 414

Allied adjusted defense: 23

Japanese assault odds: 18 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: op mode(-), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
208 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
2397 casualties reported
Squads: 76 destroyed, 77 disabled
Non Combat: 43 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units retreated 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
58th Division
12th Ind.Mixed Brigade

Defending units:
10th Chinese Corps

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 623

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/16/2016 12:14:05 PM

el lobo

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PRODUCTION Jan 1, 19432 Turn 391

Accelerated this month.

Ki-44 Tojo IIc 2/43
Tony 100-I 9/44
Oscar -43-IV 2/44
Ki-49-IIb Helen 6/43
D4Y3 Judy 2/44
B6N2 Jill 9/43

Ha-42 9/45
Ha-44 2/43

Three of my six J2M2 Jack location are fully repaired and R&Ding. The other three are ~27 repaired.

I get the Ki-44-IIc Tojo in about two weeks.

Still fiddling with fuel for the H.I.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 624

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/17/2016 3:59:13 AM

PaxMondo

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One of the reasons I hate Burma ... The allies have a lot of fields in India that are in range of their LB's and thus to defend Burma you have to commit a LOT of fighter groups and too many of the bases you want to defend are not on a RR, and there are breaks in the RR, and just an overall pain.

I simply hate Burma ...

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/17/2016 2:28:09 PM

el lobo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

One of the reasons I hate Burma ... The allies have a lot of fields in India that are in range of their LB's and thus to defend Burma you have to commit a LOT of fighter groups and too many of the bases you want to defend are not on a RR, and there are breaks in the RR, and just an overall pain.

I simply hate Burma ...

You can add me to that Club.

I am sure I will hate it in the not too distant future for the same reasons as you do, but right now I hate it because it is a big supply sink-hole. I move more supplies to Burma every month than I did to China in a year.

Rio and I have commented to each other on how we are both surprised at how much the other has in Burma. I think he ran into a little more air than he expected. There is a lull right now and I am pretty certain that one reason is because he is bringing in fighters.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 626

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/18/2016 2:08:15 AM

PaxMondo

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I would suspect (and expect) that a fair number are leaking back out ... make sure you aren't doing that (stealing from Peter to pay Paul and have it just leak back). If you haven't enough supply in Thailand/SE Asia and you dump a bunch into burma, its just going to flow out. From the IJ side, you shouldn't have to bring much to Burma once you have Rangoon unless/until you get into the thick of it with the allies (+9ID's plus support units plus +20 air groups all this in active combat every day) where you are burning say ~2-3K supply/day. Then, depending upon what you've done in Thailand/SE Asia you may need to bring some in.

The allies coming from india are in a different position. There is a hard block between India and Burma in terms of the terrain, much more difficult to get supply to move. You need to push it from their side and even then it generally is only enough if there is no combat. With combat they have to transport it in ...

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Post #: 627

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/18/2016 3:01:02 AM

el lobo

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Hummm ..... I may have been screwing-up here.

Awhile back when I had my oil problems, I turned-off the refineries at Magwe and Rangoon and they are are still off. I take it that I should turn those back-on.

Most of my bases are well supplied.

I presently have eleven IDs in Burma with five more on the way (four near Paoshan and one at sea). I have thirty-four air units in country and another dozen or so scattered around the periphery.

Interesting comments about Allied supply.

Thanks Pax.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 628

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 8/18/2016 3:48:47 AM

PaxMondo

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Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Hummm ..... I may have been screwing-up here.

Awhile back when I had my oil problems, I turned-off the refineries at Magwe and Rangoon and they are are still off. I take it that I should turn those back-on.

Most of my bases are well supplied.

I presently have eleven IDs in Burma with five more on the way (four near Paoshan and one at sea). I have thirty-four air units in country and another dozen or so scattered around the periphery.

Interesting comments about Allied supply.

Thanks Pax.

Again, having the units present doesn't eat that much supply. Its when they are engaged ... supply usage goes up just amazingly ... IIRC, 2E bombers use 2 supply each/bomb run.

Yes, refineries on will generate several hundred supply/day. A big deal in Burma....

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The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s ... - 8/24/2016 6:42:43 AM

el lobo

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Thanks Pax.

PRODUCTION NOTE Jan 9, 1943 Turn 399

Here is a situation that if I have read abut it before, it did not register.

PDU is On.

My Ki-44IIc Tojo finished R&D today. The three Locations went from the R&D screen to the Air screen but remained purple, which means I can still change them, either into production or back to R&Ding another Type of a/c.

My general thought is that I do not want to move any Locations out of R&D to production if I can help it as we do not have enough R&D in the first place. My intent is to move the R&Ding IIc to R&D the Sam. This will of course mean a loss of Factories, and the remaining will be damaged at each Location (0/20), but this is WAD.

My other intent was to move the three Locations now producing the Ki-44IIa to produce the Ki-44IIc, and here is where I ran into my problem. To move the a/c to another model without losing and damaging Factories, you have to move them up the normal production line. The problem is that the Ki-44IIb is not yet at its production date which is Jul '43. I did not, nor have I, any intent to R&D or produce that model.

I have two choices (three if I want to wait until Jul), change the R&Ding IIc to production and lose R&D Locations. The advantage of this is that I will have instant and full (as it stands now) production of the IIc. Or, move them back to R&D, and move the producing IIa Locations to produce the IIc, which will lose Factories and have the remaining damaged (0/21). I will chose the later.

A note. I considered moving one Location to production and the other two back to R&D. If you change one of the producing IIa Locations to production of the IIc, all the R&Ding IIc Locations change to production. So if you should decide to move some Locations back to R&D, do this before you change the IIa to IIc.

I played around with all of these. Just remember to Save before you do anything, and then if you change your mind, you can Exit and re-load.

My R&D is pretty much set for the game so I will run into this problem again in the future, such with as the Oscar and Tony.

< Message edited by el lobo -- 8/24/2016 6:50:02 AM >

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 630