RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 8/30/2017 12:55:37 AM

Bif1961

Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline

It is obviously not a one for one cypher as all 3 would have to be 3 letter words and two would have to have the first two letters. Since they are headed NW it would be three possible landings since he used three cover terms, and probable NW or WNW.

< Message edited by Bif1961 -- 8/30/2017 1:00:55 AM >

(in reply to MakeeLearn)

Post #: 1291

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 8/30/2017 10:03:37 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

PACIFIC Sept 14, 1943 Turn 647

Any code breakers out there?

...

Thanks.

Hello el lobo,

Considering the real WWII Japanese decoding abilities the real message should be something like that:

Q2FwdGFpbiBIYWdnYXJkLQ0KDQpDSEFSR0UgKEJ1Z2xlcyBibGFyaW5nIGluIHRoZSBiYWNrZ3JvdW5kKQ0KDQoxLikgV2UgbGVhdmUgT1dUIGJvdW5kIGZvciBPV1AgdG9tb3J
yb3c7IFNlcHRlbWJlciAxMiwgMTk0My4NCg0KMi4pIFRoZSBlbnRpcmUgSW52YXNpb24gRmxlZXQgcHJlc2VudGx5IGF0IE9XVCBoYXMgYmVlbiByZWZ1ZWxlZCBmcm9tIHRoZS
BSZXBsZW5pc2htZW50IFRhc2sgRm9yY2Ugd2l0aGluIHRoZSBoZXg7IGluY2x1ZGluZyBhbGwgeW91ciBUYXNrIEZvcmNlcyB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIGhleC4NCg0KMy4pIEFsbCBDb
21iYXQgU2hpcCBUYXNrIEZvcmNlcyBwcmVzZW50bHkgYXQgT1dUIGFyZSBmdWxseSBhcm1lZC4NCg0KNC4pIEkgc2V0IGFsbCB5b3VyIE1pbmUgU3dlZXBpbmcgVGFzayBGb3Jj
ZXMgdG8gZm9sbG93IHRoZSBJbnZhc2lvbiBGbGVldCdzIGxlYWQgVGFzayBGb3JjZTsgVEYgMTcuDQoNCjUuKSBBbGwgVGFzayBGb3JjZXMgcHJlc2VudGx5IGF0IG9uZSBvciB
0aGUgb3RoZXIgZm91ciBzb3V0aGVybiBNYXJpYW5hcyBQb3J0cyBoYXZlIGxvYWRlZCBhbmQgYXJlIHNldCB0byBtZWV0IHRoZSBJbnZhc2lvbiBGbGVldCBhdCBPV1QuIFRoZX
kgc2hvdWxkIGFsbCBhcnJpdmUgYnkgZGF5LWVuZCBvbiBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMTEsIDE5NDMuDQoNCjYuKSBQbGVhc2UgY2hlY2sgYWxsIHRoZSBUYXNrIEZvcmNlcyB1bmRlciBUa
GUgSGFnZ2FyZCBHcm91cCB0byBhc3N1cmUgdGhhdCBJIGhhdmUgbm90IHNldCBhbnkgb2YgeW91ciBUYXNrIEZvcmNlcyB0byBoZWFkIHdlc3QgdGhhdCB5b3UgZG8gbm90IHdh
bnQgaGVhZGluZyB3ZXN0IGFuZCB0byBhc3N1cmUgdGhhdCBhbGwgb2YgeW91ciBUYXNrIEZvcmNlcyB5b3Ugd2FudCBoZWFkaW5nIHdlc3QgYXJlIGluZGVlZCBzZXQgdG8gZm9
sbG93IFRGIDE3Lg0KDQoNCkRFU1RSWU9FUiBURU5ERVJTIChBVkRzKSBQUkVTRU5UTFkgQVQgT1dUDQoNCg0KVGhlc2UgQVZEUyB3ZXJlIGF0IE9FUiBhcyB5b3Ugc2VudCB0aG
VtIHRoZXJlLCBJIGFzc3VtZSB0byBiZSBwcm90ZWN0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIEludmFzaW9uIEZsZWV0LiBBY2NvcmRpbmdseSwgd2hlbiBJIG1vdmVkIHRoZSBJbnZhc2lvbiBGbGVld
CB0byBPV1QsIEkgc2V0IHRoZSBBVkRzIHRvIGZvbGxvdyBzbyB0aGV5IHdvdWxkIHN0aWxsIHJlbWFpbiB1bmRlciB0aGUgcHJvdGVjdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgSW52YXNpb24gRmxl
ZXQuIEkgaGF2ZSBub3cgc2V0IHRoZW0gdG8gcmV0dXJuIHRvIEd1YW0uIFRoZXkgYXJlIHlvdXIgc2hpcHMsIGlmIHlvdSB3YW50IHRoZW0gZWxzZXdoZXJlLCBzbyBvcmRlciB
0aGVtIGVsc2V3aGVyZS4NCg==

Thanks tarkalak. That certainly clears that up.

And welcome.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to tarkalak)

Post #: 1292

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 8/30/2017 10:06:40 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

PACIFIC Sept 14, 1943 Turn 647

These are some brave little Jakes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Guam at 103,86

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 2

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 21
F4F-4 Wildcat x 26
FM-1 Wildcat x 93
F6F-3 Hellcat x 442

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses REALLY

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1293

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 8/30/2017 10:08:45 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

Thanks Bif1961 and MakeeLearn, and welcome also.

Looks like they are still headed NW.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1294

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 8/31/2017 1:51:49 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

PACIFIC Sept 16, 1943 Turn 649

Franks did a little better this time out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Tinian , at 108,94

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 25 NM, estimated altitude 31,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 15

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 2
Kittyhawk III x 8
Spitfire Vc Trop x 7
Kittyhawk IV x 6
P-40N5 Warhawk x 8
F4U-1 Corsair x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk III: 1 destroyed
Spitfire Vc Trop: 4 destroyed
Kittyhawk IV: 2 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 5

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 2
Kittyhawk III x 5
P-40N5 Warhawk x 3
F4U-1 Corsair x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 22

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 1
Kittyhawk III x 5
F4U-1 Corsair x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet IV: 1 destroyed
Kittyhawk III: 2 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 3 destroyed

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1295

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 8/31/2017 3:00:25 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

Those are all 2nd tier allied aircraft except for the F4U's ....

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1296

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 8/31/2017 9:19:43 AM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

El Lobo is rocking and getting well greased with his naval aviation ops!!

Next Rio'operations won't be met by relatively easy success as before!

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 8/31/2017 9:24:07 AM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1297

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 8/31/2017 9:22:54 AM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

PACIFIC Sept 9, 1943 Turn 641

Lost these two stragglers from a Bombardment TF. Hummm .... I wonder why. The Bombardment TF did not reach Guam as it ran into similar resistance.

Can you explain this?!?

What happened exactly? Have you lost the Hyuga (

) how exactly?

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1298

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 8/31/2017 9:23:31 AM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 1299

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 8/31/2017 12:51:06 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Can you explain this?!?

What happened exactly? Have you lost the Hyuga () how exactly?

This was a Bombardment TF out of Yap. Here is the series of events. As you can see, they took a few down with her.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 3,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Shell hits 1
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 1
DD Oshio
DD Michishio, Shell hits 1
DD Yamagumo
DD Asagumo
DD Kasumi, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CA Suffolk, Shell hits 4
CL Tromp
CLAA Van Heemskerck, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Voyager, Shell hits 2
DD Warramunga, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Racehorse
DD Rotherham
DD Le Triomphant

Poor visibility due to Rain with 75% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Rain and 75% moonlight: 6,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
BB Hyuga
DD Oshio
DD Michishio
DD Yamagumo
DD Asagumo
DD Kasumi

Allied Ships
PC Tiger, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PC Reliance, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
PC Kimball, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PG Charleston, Shell hits 8, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, on fire
BB Hyuga
DD Oshio
DD Michishio
DD Yamagumo
DD Asagumo
DD Kasumi

Allied Ships
PC Crawford, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PG Herald, Shell hits 13, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 3,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Shell hits 1
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Oshio
DD Michishio
DD Yamagumo
DD Asagumo
DD Kasumi

Allied Ships
DE Electra, Shell hits 2
DE Express, Shell hits 5, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
DD Oshio, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Michishio, Shell hits 2
DD Yamagumo
DD Asagumo

Allied Ships
DD Sampson, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Sterett, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
DD Wilson, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 107,94, Range 29,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, heavy damage
DD Kasumi

Allied Ships
BB West Virginia
BB California
BB Tennessee
BB Mississippi
CA Northampton
CA Pensacola
CA Salt Lake City
CA Vincennes
CL Richmond
CL Trenton
CL St. Louis
CL Cleveland
DD Benham
DD Lang
DD Selfridge
DD Balch

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 107,94, Range 15,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 30, and is sunk
DD Kasumi, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
BB Maryland
BB Pennsylvania
BB Idaho
BB New Mexico, Shell hits 3, on fire
CA Houston
CA Chester
CA Louisville
CA Chicago
CL Achilles
CL Raleigh
CL Detroit
CL Concord
DD Ellet
DD Porter
DD Phelps
DD Clark, Shell hits 1

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 1300

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/5/2017 2:08:33 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

PACIFIC Sept 19, 1943 Turn 652

Rio says I got one TK.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1301

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/5/2017 2:09:57 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

PACIFIC Sept 20, 1943 Turn 653

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Saipan , at 108,93

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 31

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 1
Kittyhawk IV x 16
Spitfire Vc Trop x 7
P-40N5 Warhawk x 15
F4U-1 Corsair x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IV: 3 destroyed
Spitfire Vc Trop: 1 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 2 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 38

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 1
Kittyhawk IV x 5
Spitfire Vc Trop x 1
P-40N5 Warhawk x 5
F4U-1 Corsair x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk IV: 1 destroyed
Spitfire Vc Trop: 1 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 2 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1302

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/5/2017 2:11:48 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

PACIFIC Sept 20, 1943 Turn 653

From dream to nightmare.

Almost one-hundred Franks. All with-in six hexes of Rio's Flotilla. No over stacking. All bases, except one slightly, more AV than a/c. All at their bases for two days to over a week. Weather clear all around. Excellent detection.

Same setting as Franks which attack the turn prior.

Not one flew.

(Jakes, Bettys, Helens, and Lillys all flew, and got slaughtered of course.)

Tomorrow I will have over 170 Franks with-in six hexes, provided he keeps on his present course.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by el lobo -- 9/5/2017 2:12:56 AM >

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1303

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/5/2017 3:37:38 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

Well, coordination is something that takes practice and experience. Read Herb's old AAR. He is a master at it and he explains exactly how he does it. IT is based on LoBaron's old guide, so no rocket science. But it does take considerable planning and patience.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1304

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/5/2017 6:15:18 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Well, coordination is something that takes practice and experience. Read Herb's old AAR. He is a master at it and he explains exactly how he does it. IT is based on LoBaron's old guide, so no rocket science. But it does take considerable planning and patience.

OK, I'll take responsibility for possibly misleading you.

When I said the Jakes, Bettys, Helens, and Lillys got slaughtered, it could have inferred a coordination situation. Let me set the record straight, this is not a coordination problem.

The Franks mentioned are in bases by themselves and they are actually three and four hexes away (five units). My point concerning the Jakes and bombers is that they seem to have no problem finding the Flotilla.

If this game has logical, realistic, unbiased, modeling, there is no reason some of the Franks should not have flown.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1305

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/5/2017 12:30:54 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

If this game has logical, realistic, unbiased, modeling, there is no reason some of the Franks should not have flown.[/size]

There are very logical, realistic, unbiased rules modeled for air coordination that players need to learn and use. LoBaron wrote an air guide some years ago. Herb, who is an acknowledged master in this area, in a previous AAR of his wrote out exactly how he implements that guide. All very logical, realistic, and unbiased.

I'm sorry for chiding you, but even though you haven't provided a lot of detail here, I can see at least two and possibly 3 things that you did to ground the Franks. Read LoBaron's Air Guide (it's stickied). Then you'll need to search for Herb's previous AAR and read that (excellent read BTW). It's about halfway through, he wrote it all down in about 12 lines. A lot of players fail to follow it, players who are quite good otherwise, and pay for it with bad outcomes and then blame a bad roll. There is a LOT of probability in this game, it is Gary's game at heart, but most everyone of those probabilities can be considerably mitigated if you follow the rules.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1306

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/5/2017 12:36:45 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

BTW, you are playing a very good game here against an opponent that as you stated not only has considerably more gaming experience than you but also has a much larger following assisting him with all of the game mechanics. When this game is done and you have a chance to read his AAR I think you will agree with me that he owes you a rather large beverage of your choice. I'd make it a single malt, but you might prefer a sour mash.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1307

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/5/2017 12:48:35 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

If this game has logical, realistic, unbiased, modeling, there is no reason some of the Franks should not have flown.[/size]

There are very logical, realistic, unbiased rules modeled for air coordination that players need to learn and use. LoBaron wrote an air guide some years ago. Herb, who is an acknowledged master in this area, in a previous AAR of his wrote out exactly how he implements that guide. All very logical, realistic, and unbiased.

I'm sorry for chiding you, but even though you haven't provided a lot of detail here, I can see at least two and possibly 3 things that you did to ground the Franks. Read LoBaron's Air Guide (it's stickied). Then you'll need to search for Herb's previous AAR and read that (excellent read BTW). It's about halfway through, he wrote it all down in about 12 lines. A lot of players fail to follow it, players who are quite good otherwise, and pay for it with bad outcomes and then blame a bad roll. There is a LOT of probability in this game, it is Gary's game at heart, but most everyone of those probabilities can be considerably mitigated if you follow the rules.

+1.

The Frank squadron you pictured was to Naval attack at 32k and was a splinter. Normal range is 6 which is a very short in game window to attack. Also it is splintered, meaning the air superiority routines will come heavily in to play, and finally, I have no clue if the game takes into account the fact that your pilots have no training in naval attack, are fighters pulling off a high altitude naval strike, and finally have a fallback mission of sweep which will mess with the rolls to sortie.

And finally, I am not sure what you are trying to do, other than throw away the Frank pilots and planes. Sending them in with a bombload at 32K...they will be fighting under extremely adverse conditions. If they were kamikazes...thought that would be good.

Good to experiment though...better off imho of having them escort one squadron of torpedo bombers at max altitude.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1308

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/5/2017 2:11:06 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

There are very logical, realistic, unbiased rules modeled for air coordination that players need to learn and use. LoBaron wrote an air guide some years ago. Herb, who is an acknowledged master in this area, in a previous AAR of his wrote out exactly how he implements that guide. All very logical, realistic, and unbiased.

I'm sorry for chiding you, but even though you haven't provided a lot of detail here, I can see at least two and possibly 3 things that you did to ground the Franks. Read LoBaron's Air Guide (it's stickied). Then you'll need to search for Herb's previous AAR and read that (excellent read BTW). It's about halfway through, he wrote it all down in about 12 lines. A lot of players fail to follow it, players who are quite good otherwise, and pay for it with bad outcomes and then blame a bad roll. There is a LOT of probability in this game, it is Gary's game at heart, but most everyone of those probabilities can be considerably mitigated if you follow the rules.

Pax, I think we may have a misunderstanding. LoBaron is talking about coordination of fighters with bombers attacking the same target.

That is not about what I am talking. I am talking about just my fighters attacking his TF's CAP. At this point, this turn that is, there are no bombers at the bases where the fighters should be initiating the attack. There are Medium Bombers attacking, but they are at other bases and are on their own. As LoBaron notes, there is no coordination between sweeps, which I don't expect anyway.

Please take a looks at my settings as I think this is where my problem lies, as Lowpe is suggesting below.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

BTW, you are playing a very good game here against an opponent that as you stated not only has considerably more gaming experience than you but also has a much larger following assisting him with all of the game mechanics. When this game is done and you have a chance to read his AAR I think you will agree with me that he owes you a rather large beverage of your choice. I'd make it a single malt, but you might prefer a sour mash.

Thanks. I am on my way to sunny, smoky California in the morning and I am sure we, along with Capt. Haggard, will exchange several beverages.

One reason that this is so frustrating for me is that this is a once-in-a-game opportunity to inflict great damage to him and I don't want to blow it.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1309

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/5/2017 2:14:00 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

+1.

The Frank squadron you pictured was to Naval attack at 32k and was a splinter. Normal range is 6 which is a very short in game window to attack. Also it is splintered, meaning the air superiority routines will come heavily in to play, and finally, I have no clue if the game takes into account the fact that your pilots have no training in naval attack, are fighters pulling off a high altitude naval strike, and finally have a fallback mission of sweep which will mess with the rolls to sortie.

And finally, I am not sure what you are trying to do, other than throw away the Frank pilots and planes. Sending them in with a bombload at 32K...they will be fighting under extremely adverse conditions. If they were kamikazes...thought that would be good.

Good to experiment though...better off imho of having them escort one squadron of torpedo bombers at max altitude.

I suspect you are correct. My settings are wrong, but it worked once so I thought I would give it a second try.

I will try some different settings.

My intention is to wear-down his CAP with guerrilla attacks, mostly Franks, and then bring-in the LBA bombers and the KB. He has twenty-five carriers here.

He knows that he is in dangerous territory but is willing to take the losses. I hope I can give him more than he anticipates.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1310

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/6/2017 2:59:24 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

LoBaron is talking about coordination of fighters with bombers attacking the same target.

True, he uses that as the exemplar, but his guide is applicable to all air missions. In this case you are trying to coordinate a number of sweeps, correct? You want several different air groups to launch on the same mission with maximum cohesion. All the same variables and principles apply.

LoBarons guide is good, no question. But Herb's description is more ... visceral. He doesn't talk theory or modeling or any of that back ground stuff. He just gives it quite straight; this is the reality that you live in: do this and this and this ... or suffer failures. Here's the brilliant part of it all: his tactics mirror the real life tactics to a "T".

Meaning the devs really got it right ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1311

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/6/2017 3:01:24 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
I am on my way to sunny, smoky California in the morning and I am sure we, along with Capt. Haggard, will exchange several beverages.

Well hoist several schooners and enjoy. Long flight, take care.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1312

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/26/2017 4:01:36 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

The time spent with Rio and Capt Haggard was really gratifying. Hag is a chef par excellence. His meals, Rio's brilliant conversation, and a few mind soothing elixirs made for a Second Annual War Game Commanders' reunion well worth remembering.

Thanks again Rio for the 1st Cav. hat and the "A" Troop, First-of-the-Ninth mug.

Now, time to catch-up.

FORMOSA Sept 22, 1943 Turn 655

At this point time we am still not sure where Rio is headed but I got in one semi-successful strike. There were three other smaller strikes with no results.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Pescadores at 86,62

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 109 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 46 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 22
G4M1 Betty x 9
N1K1-J George x 18
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 24

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 6
F4F-4 Wildcat x 12
FM-1 Wildcat x 32
F6F-3 Hellcat x 94

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
N1K1-J George: 5 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-1 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVL Belleau Wood
CVL Hermes, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Wasp

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by el lobo -- 11/26/2017 7:42:21 AM >

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1313

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/26/2017 4:03:45 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

FORMOSA Sept 23, 1943 Turn 656

Another small strike.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Orchid Island at 86,68

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 13
Ki-84a Frank x 18

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAK Steel Voyager, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Ellenga, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
xAK Garmula, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
xAK Mormacgull, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
520 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 90 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 48 (47 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 88 (83 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by el lobo -- 11/26/2017 7:43:02 AM >

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1314

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/26/2017 4:08:05 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

FORMOSA Sept 24, 1943 Turn 657

Rio finally reveals his destinations, Takao, Pescadores, and Amoy.

An couple of Allied BBs out of service.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Takao at 84,66

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 18
Ki-84a Frank x 31

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4
F6F-3 Hellcat x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 14 damaged
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB California, Torpedo hits 3, heavy damage
BB Ramillies, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Indiana, Torpedo hits 1
DD Brownson

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by el lobo -- 11/26/2017 7:43:42 AM >

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1315

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/26/2017 5:48:15 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

FORMOSA Sept 24-25, 1943 Turn 657-658

I think numbers worth remembering.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Amoy (83,61)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 49041 troops, 1603 guns, 1251 vehicles, Assault Value = 1762

Defending force 3549 troops, 29 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 77

Allied adjusted assault: 1159

Japanese adjusted defense: 5

Allied assault odds: 231 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied forces CAPTURE Amoy !!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Pescadores (84,63)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 16442 troops, 277 guns, 324 vehicles, Assault Value = 776

Defending force 4135 troops, 51 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 63

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 330

Japanese adjusted defense: 38

Allied assault odds: 8 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Pescadores !!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Takao (84,65)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 20862 troops, 961 guns, 661 vehicles, Assault Value = 986

Defending force 4611 troops, 104 guns, 10 vehicles, Assault Value = 63

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 579

Japanese adjusted defense: 28

Allied assault odds: 20 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied forces CAPTURE Takao !!!

< Message edited by el lobo -- 11/26/2017 7:44:14 AM >

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1316

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/26/2017 7:22:42 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

FORMOSA Sept 28, 1943 Turn 661

I finally got some strikes but they were costly with not much results. This pretty much stopped my offensive air opps for awhile.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Pescadores at 83,63

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 49 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 9
N1K1-J George x 14

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 9
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11
FM-1 Wildcat x 31
F6F-3 Hellcat x 264

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Takao at 84,65

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 96 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 24
B5N1 Kate x 15
B6N2 Jill x 18

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 3
FM-1 Wildcat x 8
F4U-1 Corsair x 5
F6F-3 Hellcat x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 8 destroyed
B5N1 Kate: 9 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 7 destroyed, 2 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Pescadores at 83,63

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 102 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 43 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 7
N1K1-J George x 9

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 9
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11
FM-1 Wildcat x 29
F6F-3 Hellcat x 251

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

------------------------------
Two more similar to the one above.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by el lobo -- 11/26/2017 7:44:43 AM >

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1317

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/26/2017 7:46:07 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

FORMOSA Oct 2, 1943 Turn 665

Rio is advancing on Formosa and in China. Operation "Noose" as I understand it.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1318

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/26/2017 8:16:12 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

PHILIPPINE SEA Oct 3, 1943 Turn 666

It appears that Rio is moving his Flotilla back to Guam.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1319

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/26/2017 2:03:56 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

PHILIPPINE SEA Oct 4, 1943 Turn 667

This turn gets interesting. It was the longest CR of the war.

This turn was four separate battles.

Captain Haggard is fighting his private war against me in the Marianas. He moved a number of SCTFs into Pagen and made several air assaults. We both lost a number of ships and a/c. Sorry, no screen-shots. I mention this as the ships and a/c lost there will show-up mixed in with some other losses further down in this report (screen-shots).

There was also some naval air attacks by the Allies at Taihoku, and, I sunk the BB Ramillies in a separate Surface Combat. She was limping back to Guam with previous bomb damage.

In the Philippine Sea, I maneuvered the KB into position and got the "almost" perfect strike. I say almost. (The KB is fully operational except for the Kaga which is still in the repair shipyard.)

Rio sent me an email with a synopsis of losses, congratulating me. Here is my reply:
------------------
'A very good summary.

However I have been thinking about this a lot and I have a very different conclusion.

You said it all with this, "El Lobo, don't you teach your pilots the difference between Battleships and Transport ships? Honestly, pretty bad luck."

This strike was the Japanese player's wet dream. A perfect strike. Decent weather. Out of Allied range. The TBs and DBs got through by the dozens. And yet here sits twenty or so Allied carriers and not one is even attacked, at least not in my CR. Not one Allied fighter shot down. Pretty damn realistic I would say, in a most sarcastic way.'
-------------------------------

Even though it was a good strike, I was disappointed in the results because of the lack of capital ships hit. Here is the result of the main strike.

Allied Ships
BB West Virginia, Torpedo hits 1
xAK West Planter, Bomb hits 8, and is sunk
DD Schroeder
CM Prins van Oranje
xAK Chilka
xAK Ekma, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
xAK Steel Exporter
xAK Birminghan City, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Charon, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
xAK Steel Mariner, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Taylor
CM Gouden Leeuw
xAK Utahan
xAK San Rafael, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Ernest Meyer, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Changte
CM Oglala, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Steel Ranger, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Egra, Bomb hits 7, and is sunk
xAK Steel Inventor, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Erinpura
xAK Centaur
DD Meredith
xAK Congella, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

BUT, there was one out-come that I liked. His carriers reacted and got separated from the main Flotilla, and that cost him.

Four separate strikes.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1320

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