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please remove colony overthrow event

 
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please remove colony overthrow event - 5/1/2015 2:35:24 PM   
jadelith

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 5/30/2014
Status: offline 		so, you invade a 300 million colony with 50 elite troops / armor, you win in 2 seconds, you look somewhere else for 1 minute, and boom, the colony overthrew your government, and your troops, who fought for you immediately switch alleigance, and now you have to come back with a ginormous invasion force to take it back. oh, and there's no guarantee your 200+ troops won't do the same thing.

no fight whatsoever (and there's no way an armed rebellion would succeed), just *poof*, your invasion troops will fight to death against you now.

most of my enemies' troops are actually mine because of this. it makes 0 sense.

please remove this thing, it's extremely annoying : /

edit: also

if you are invading a colony, and that colony decides to join another empire.

you lose ALL of your troops invading that colony.

yeah, yet another reason to get rid of this event - its broken beyond repair :/ I'm ok with armed revolts, it's the "overthrow" mechanic that makes no sense.

< Message edited by jadelith -- 5/1/2015 3:43:32 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/1/2015 6:52:38 PM   
BigWolfChris


Posts: 634
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline 		I can agree with this, if it can't be fixed, it needs removing

< Message edited by BigWolf -- 5/1/2015 7:53:07 PM >

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(in reply to jadelith)
Post #: 2
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/1/2015 7:18:07 PM   
Cauldyth

 

Posts: 752
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline 		I agree, very infuriating and doesn't make much sense.

(in reply to BigWolfChris)
Post #: 3
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/1/2015 7:23:16 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		The issue with your invasion ending with the colony joining another empire is simple...and complicated.

Basically it comes down to this, make sure another empire isn't trying to invade when you land the troops. Whoever landed first gets the planet when its over. Even a pirate invasion already underway can cause this problem.

As a rule, I always blockade the planet first so I can see if a battle is already ongoing. If it is not, then I land. If a battle is ongoing, I let it play out before invading.

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Post #: 4
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/1/2015 8:02:08 PM   
jadelith

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 5/30/2014
Status: offline 		no other empire is trying to invade, that's the problem.

Let's say I'm empire X. I'm invading empire Y's planet. meanwhile, there's also an empire Z somewhere on the map. during the battle between empire X and empire Y, empire Y's planet (that's being invaded) decides, because of this overthrow mechanic, to join empire Z. all of the troops belonging to empire X are eaten by a black hole.

mind you, this is a minor problem (it doesn't happen very often, maybe several times per game? depends on how much you invade); it just shows how utterly broken the event is :) the main problem is my quameno army deciding to side with gizureans (and defend them to death), a week after they invade a planet and kill all the defenders. mind you, without a fight - gizureans don't have to do anything to convince them to fight fellow quamenos. I don't think anything would be lost if the whole overthrow mechanic was, simply, deleted. we already have the rebellion event anyway.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 5
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/1/2015 8:31:57 PM   
Uncle Lumpy


Posts: 158
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline 		I experienced similar event/"glitch" in a recent game. My empire initiated an invasion of an enemy empire's planet/colony. My forces had nearly won the invasion when one of my "allies" also invaded the same planet with a larger army and joined the battle (a tad bit late for the cavalry to arrive, and we didn't need them anyway). After our side won the battle my ally gained/was awarded/took control of the planet and it became my ally's colony!? All of my armed forces on the planet immediately became part of my ally's armed forces. My fleet was still orbiting the planet and no effort by it was made to load my forces. I watched the whole thing unfold right before my eyes. Battle nearly won, "ally" lands, next second battle over and planet/colony my ally's, and my troops are now my ally's troops!!??! It all happened in two seconds. Freaky weird or what?!

< Message edited by Uncle Lumpy -- 5/1/2015 9:32:48 PM >

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 6
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/1/2015 8:43:11 PM   
Cauldyth

 

Posts: 752
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline 		My experience is the much simpler one described by jadelith:
* I invaded and conquered low population Planet X with an extremely large invasion force. I was knocking off a minor planet in an enemy's home system prior to taking on the homeworld itself.
* No other race, allied or otherwise, was invading that same planet, neither during nor after my invasion.
* A little while later I get an event notice that "Planet X has rebelled and joined another empire!" That stupid little small population planet had switched sides and my massive ground force that was now stationed there defected with it.

It makes no sense. Could the planet rebel? Sure. Buy why would my troops join them?

(in reply to Uncle Lumpy)
Post #: 7
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/1/2015 9:07:10 PM   
PsyKoSnake


Posts: 111
Joined: 1/25/2012
Status: offline 		When this bug happen : One solution I use the editor.

(in reply to Cauldyth)
Post #: 8
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/2/2015 9:00:05 AM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		The event is stupid when it happens right after conquest with a huge conquering army in place.

I am sure what happens is just the general event of "unhappy colony defects to other empire". The colony racks up negative happiness modifiers due to recent invasion, maybe disliking the major faction of the new empire, and other stuff. They become very unhappy and defect.

One way to try avoid this from happening, is to make sure that tax is reset to 0 for newly conquests. At least in the past it has happened that colonies keep their old tax, which may have been very high for some races.

(in reply to PsyKoSnake)
Post #: 9
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/2/2015 2:41:12 PM   
BigWolfChris


Posts: 634
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline 		Numerous times I've had a colony defect back to the empire I'd just taken it from moments ago, taking my troops with it
Infact, it could be an AI exploit to get free troops ;) lol

In seriousness, it does seem to be more common when war-weariness (sp?) is high, so as Bingeling suggests, it's more than possible to be because of happiness modifiers having it well above the defection threshold upon conquest

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Post #: 10
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/2/2015 3:58:37 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		If it happens often, do you have manual taxes? I assume the AI tax guy will be quick about adjusting taxes after conquest.

The AI tends to adjust taxes to have +11 happiness, I believe. If you don't adjust the tax percentage, and it sticks, you will have some nice negative modifiers after battle, and no new positive ones.

- recent combat
- unhappy about being in your empire
- unhappy about your government
- At war with own species
- unhappy about less than stellar reputation
- War weariness (could be higher)

That is quite a lot of negatives to happiness.

(in reply to BigWolfChris)
Post #: 11
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/2/2015 5:25:17 PM   
Uncle Lumpy


Posts: 158
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks to the explanations posted above I now understand what happened in my situation. My forces did win the invasion, but the population of my new and ever soooooooo brief colony immediately revolted and joined my ally. Even understanding why and how, it still seems highly unrealistic that they could. In effect a conquered population defeats the army which just defeated it!?! Oooookay, if you say so.

< Message edited by Uncle Lumpy -- 5/2/2015 6:26:23 PM >

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 12
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/2/2015 6:13:36 PM   
PsyKoSnake


Posts: 111
Joined: 1/25/2012
Status: offline 		The major problem of this:

Your army should be able to hold the colony by force.

Usualy your army is loyal to you...

(in reply to Uncle Lumpy)
Post #: 13
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/2/2015 8:18:15 PM   
mordachai


Posts: 207
Joined: 3/6/2015
Status: offline 		Agree with OP: it's a stupid mechanic when your own troops all suddenly defect to the new colony. I can see that happening super-rarely, but this happens a lot. It does seem to be a war-weariness / unhappy response mechanism - but even if that were true- everyone in the army defects in unison? NOT. At the least, *some* of your troops should decide to defect to the rebellion, and some remain loyal... you know... like in REALITY.

Then, they can duke it out, and you maybe have time to deliver reinforcements / and the population suffers losses due to anarchy / armed conflict upon their soil. Not perfect unanimity of purpose in defecting.

That something *like* this can happen isn't insane - that it consistently happens with 100% perfect unanimity is what rubs everyone absolutely the wrong way. It flies in the face of all reason, and all history of warfare and politics on this planet. Goofy.

(in reply to PsyKoSnake)
Post #: 14
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/2/2015 9:34:14 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		The problem could in part be that the tax level is inherited, and that a manual tax player does not correct this in time. As for the army to stop the defection, it is a hard thing to solve. Should any garrison stop the colony from defecting? If you have 5 troops there for 20 years, they ought to be pretty in line with the population? Where is the limit between the obvious silly cause, and the colony with 5 defenders and a giant population? There is also a rebellion event for the not so unhappy populations where the troops will try to stop them.

For the really cruel players with some non-aggressive races there are events that are way more hurtful than this.

Fixes that could be done, could include.

- A grace period after conquest where they won't defect if there are decent amount of troops compared to population. If the invasion troops are lifted away and the citizen fancy their chances against the current garrison, let them try rebellion instead.

- Make sure that tax is set to 0 on conquest for the manual taxers, I assume the AI will catch the situation in time, since I have not had this happen much (and I love myself some AI to keep myself back).

For those that seem to have this a lot, pay attention to tax levels and colony happiness right after conquest.


(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 15
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/3/2015 4:57:31 AM   
elite

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 2/1/2015
Status: offline 		The tax level is definatley a factor. Most colonies have quite a high tax rate when you take them over. Unless you choose to reduce the tax rate manually to 0%, you defiantly risk a rebellion.

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 16
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/7/2015 5:05:50 PM   
Siddham

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 3/18/2012
Status: offline
My game has just ended because of this crazy mechanic.
My main planet just became a new empire and all I have now is a small colony in the same system.

This means my game is over.
I cannot maintain my fleets or anything on the basis of a small low quality colony with 1 bil pop.

Is this daft mechanic linked to anything that can be disabled at game start?

Until I know what this is and how to negate it I cannot play another game of Distant Worlds
It would be pointless
To build up carefully as I have and then lose the lot in this way is....
well I dont have a polite word so lets just say its bollocks

(in reply to elite)
Post #: 17
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/7/2015 5:11:01 PM   
jadelith

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 5/30/2014
Status: offline 		well, what you're describing is different. this event only happens if the planet has high unhappiness, and if your capital is very unhappy with your leadership.. a coup is not totally illogical I would say?

my problem is about recently conquered planets.

(in reply to Siddham)
Post #: 18
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/7/2015 5:51:58 PM   
mordachai


Posts: 207
Joined: 3/6/2015
Status: offline 		You can mod some of this away, if you're willing to make those game-balance choices: give government types (more-or-less all govts) a large boost to happiness (or reduction to war weariness). Either way, the unhappiness will dissolve more more rapidly. Not quite a full-fix (it can still happen right early after taking a world), but it would reduce the frequency of the issue.

(in reply to jadelith)
Post #: 19
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/18/2015 5:10:30 AM   
dunn0r

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/25/2014
Status: offline 		Yeah, i had this happen, repeatedly on one of my worlds.

Played as Dhayut, found a Wekkarus colony ship, settled an ocean planet in one of my systems
-> taxes set to zero, but they were unhappy at being part of my empire,
rebelled immediately and became idependent.
I took the colony back three times and they rebelled and became independent again everytime
and kept all my troops including my +100% ground attack super general...
I ended up using the editor to add a small Dhayut pop, and made them join my Empire...

It's a crap mechanic and should be removed.

(in reply to jadelith)
Post #: 20
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/18/2015 7:00:14 AM   
Spidey


Posts: 411
Joined: 12/8/2013
Status: offline 		Strange, dunnOr. In a game I'm playing, I'm actually seeing plenty of rebellions (I'm Quam and beating on Boskaran colonies with huge war weariness...), but they're the sensible kind where the planet raises 7 infantry units out of nowhere and try to fight it out against my invasion forces.

You are correct, however, that new colonies can be difficult. They have no infrastructure, they have no resources, and they have no happiness facilities. However, you can design a very cheap start base (command, reactor, 1 fuel cell, 1 cargo bay, 1 docking bay, med facility, rec facility plus life support) and build it with a constructor. That way the colony isn't in the red for long.

(in reply to dunn0r)
Post #: 21
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/18/2015 1:00:40 PM   
Cauldyth

 

Posts: 752
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline 		For those who haven't seen, the latest beta patch has this item:
quote:

- reduced chance of newly conquered colonies switching empires, especially when have strong troop garrison present


(in reply to Spidey)
Post #: 22
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/19/2015 9:33:18 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		I am surprised this thing that most players do not have an issue apart from one poor player is fixed but longstanding issues with things like the A.I being so easily exploitable in diplomacy and many others in tech support is ignored.

I never saw empire splits and civil wars and now it's unlikely I ever will.How boring.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 5/19/2015 10:36:00 PM >

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Post #: 23
RE: please remove colony overthrow event - 5/20/2015 1:56:43 AM   
deciplex

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I am surprised this thing that most players do not have an issue apart from one poor player is fixed but longstanding issues with things like the A.I being so easily exploitable in diplomacy and many others in tech support is ignored.

I never saw empire splits and civil wars and now it's unlikely I ever will.How boring.

It could be that resolving this issue was a quick win compared to an overhaul of the AI.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 24
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