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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

 
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/6/2015 11:12:49 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		May 15th, 1942

11th Army - Crossed into Changsha and 6 level forts

Japanese ground losses:
16560 casualties reported
Squads: 495 destroyed, 356 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 197 disabled
Engineers: 34 destroyed, 46 disabled
Guns lost 116 (21 destroyed, 95 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
642 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 62 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

23rd Army - in route to Changsha

Allied ground losses:
2043 casualties reported
Squads: 41 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 125 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 32 (32 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 1


12th Army - first attack on Ankang - level 2 forts dropped to level 1

Japanese ground losses:
561 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 108 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Allied ground losses:
2212 casualties reported
Squads: 37 destroyed, 76 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 44 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 17 (1 destroyed, 16 disabled)

12th Army - Close to Ankang and Sian

Japanese ground losses:
218 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 22 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
2561 casualties reported
Squads: 213 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 221 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 3

25th Army - Drive on Kunming

Japanese ground losses:
605 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 46 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 47 (3 destroyed, 44 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3668 casualties reported
Squads: 148 destroyed, 90 disabled
Non Combat: 24 destroyed, 17 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 31 (19 destroyed, 12 disabled)




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/6/2015 7:55:54 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 301
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/6/2015 7:05:03 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		May 16th, 1942

Ankang Falls

Japanese ground losses:
887 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 39 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled

Allied ground losses:
11999 casualties reported
Squads: 340 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 529 destroyed, 36 disabled
Engineers: 52 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 30 (27 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Units retreated 12

Aleutians

I'd really really really like to know what I'm doing wrong. I should be still having the upper hand in air battles, but like Burma, I'm getting slaughtered. I've got netties and zeroes assigned to the same air HQ from the same airfield on Adak.

Bing

Morning Air attack on TF, near Dutch Harbor at 171,50

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 100 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 32
G4M1 Betty x 13

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
F4F-3 Wildcat x 14
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7
F2A-3 Buffalo x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Bang

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 22
G4M1 Betty x 6

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 10
F4F-3 Wildcat x 14
F4F-4 Wildcat x 27
F2A-3 Buffalo x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed

No Allied losses

Boom

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
G3M2 Nell x 9

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 10
F4F-3 Wildcat x 12
F4F-4 Wildcat x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
G3M2 Nell: 3 destroyed

No Allied losses

Just Plain Ugly

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 15

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 11 destroyed

No Allied losses

Sheez 30-0 losses....hmmmm



< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/6/2015 8:05:47 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 302
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/6/2015 7:45:24 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		What level are his planes set at? Is he getting a jump on you in most or every battle? Might he have managed to get radar up and running where it was not?

_____________________________


(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 303
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/6/2015 7:50:02 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Possibly on radar. Yes he got the jump, 15k vs. 9k altitude for me. But Buffaloes?

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 304
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/6/2015 7:50:49 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

Possibly on radar. Yes he got the jump, 15k vs. 9k altitude for me. But Buffaloes?


Buffaloes with pilots with 6+ months experience rather than the crappy pilots in 1941?

You have m2's as well. Older model planes.

< Message edited by Wargmr -- 8/6/2015 8:51:19 PM >

_____________________________


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Post #: 305
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/6/2015 8:08:28 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		The Buffalo had the best win loss ratio of any Allied fighter plane in WW2. Finland perhaps?



(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 306
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/6/2015 8:13:30 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		then I'm in deep trouble. Most of my zero sentai are still M2s. Oh oh

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 307
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/6/2015 8:20:13 PM   
Andav

 

Posts: 474
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline 		Give the bombers a day or two off and sweep with the Zeros. You could also put them on LRCP instead of Escort. When they are on Escort, they will get whacked without a lot of chance to fight back. I used LRCP a lot because it helped to make sure there where protectors for the bomber. You just have to manage the fatigue. The 2M should not have any problems with that group of fighters especially if you sweep first.

Wa

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 308
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/7/2015 1:09:02 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks

In Burma, I held my own. 5 groups of Hurricane IIb and 1 group of P-38Es came sweeping in on Magwe. Though I had numbers on each sweep, the losses were about 1-1 at the end of the day, with P-38Es doing the most damage.

He's sweeping at max altitude. We don't have an HR on max altitude. I'm going to assume I'm losing as much as I am because the bounce issue. Now the question is, how do you overcome. With his first sweeps in Burma, I put my Oscars and Zeroes at max altitude and got slaughtered. When I put them at best maneuver band, the losses went down to about 1-1. What are the best tactics to deal with high altitude sweeps when I don't have the advantage there?

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/7/2015 2:09:48 PM >

(in reply to Andav)
Post #: 309
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/7/2015 1:40:13 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		I just found some posts on this. Height is key. Speed reduces other's maneuver and pilot experience.

No defense from what I can vs a P-38E as it has 2 of the 3 and maybe even better pilots.

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 310
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/7/2015 3:25:31 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

I just found some posts on this. Height is key. Speed reduces other's maneuver and pilot experience.

No defense from what I can vs a P-38E as it has 2 of the 3 and maybe even better pilots.


Nonsense. 1-1 losses versus Lightnings is winning at this stage of the game!




(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 311
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/7/2015 3:53:09 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		1-1 vs Hurricanes. 0-15 vs. Lightnings. I haven't shot one down.

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/7/2015 4:53:26 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 312
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/7/2015 3:54:49 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Layering CAP is one way to address it. No magic wand, sometimes one side or the other is just 'doomed' by the airframe/pilot/situation superiority. People have written some detailed advice on layering CAP. What I remember most (might not be best) is having multiple layers if possible, with your best at or near the top. The bottom layer (or two) is almost sacrificial. Put your slowest down there so they act as bait to bring down the high sweepers.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 313
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/7/2015 3:57:20 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		I found some posts on exactly that. I have A6M3 (highest altitude and best speed) at top. I still only have Oscars so I have them about 15k lower within their best maneuver band. We'll see. I'm getting just hammered in the air right now. A lot to learn about air mechanics.

The Zeroes are holding up much better than the Oscars though.

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/7/2015 4:57:58 PM >

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 314
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/7/2015 4:34:13 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Ok:

Fly really low. Radar helps. Lots and lots and lots of radar. Read your warning time, and the amount of time it takes to get into position. Use this information to change your percentage CAP.

Fly the Oscars sacrificial units at 2K. Then start layering CAP around 6K to 10K. You need lots and lots of planes, you have to meet him with a numerical advantage which means lots and lots and lots of planes.

The best defense is a strong offense. Sweep him. Bomb him. Bombard him. Night bomb him. Make him react to you.

Nicks are your friend early. Well, cannons are your friend. And radar. And numbers. And even more numbers.

It is never to early to accelerate your George/Jack/Franks. Get Tojo and sweep him into oblivion. The armored Tony isn't that bad; the first one with centerline cannons is really decent. The KI100I is even better.

Or just run away. You don't have to fight everywhere.




(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 315
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/9/2015 3:13:21 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		May 24th, 1942

Sherman's Not So March

The 25th Army continues it's push towards Burma. It was delayed for a couple of days as I incidentally moved another division into the hex and over-stacked. Elements of the 15th Army are pushing westward from Burma.

Ground combat at 71,48 (near Kunming)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 18633 troops, 339 guns, 489 vehicles, Assault Value = 661

Defending force 34779 troops, 114 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 273

Japanese adjusted assault: 545

Allied adjusted defense: 103

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
59 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 26 (10 destroyed, 16 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
10474 casualties reported
Squads: 517 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 270 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 12 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 45 (45 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 16
Units destroyed 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
8th Armored Car Co
1st Tank Regiment
56th Division
4th Tank Regiment
8th Tank Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st RF Gun Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Mortar Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion
21st Mortar Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
31st Chinese Corps
87th Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
64th Chinese Corps
43rd Chinese Corps
62nd Chinese Corps
94th Chinese Corps
21st Group Army
19th Group Army
32nd Chinese Corps
44th Chinese Corps
4th War Area
9th Group Army
16th Group Army
9th War Area
73rd Chinese Corps
35th Group Army

Central China

The 1st Army continues right hook towards Changsha. The 12th Army moves in on stragglers. The 23rd Army holds up before crossing the river into Changsha and the 11th Army rebuilds in Changsha. Daily airfield attacks are removing any supply there.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/9/2015 4:13:46 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 316
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/9/2015 3:27:19 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		If your house rules permit, the Zeros seem to do better at their max altitude than anywhere else. I think it is because the maneuver delta between the Zero and Lightning is greatest at that altitude.

Layered CAP also helps immensely.

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 317
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/9/2015 5:05:28 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		He hasn't come back yet. Layered Cap is up and running. My first sentai of armored Zeroes is about ready to join the fray.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 318
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 3:43:47 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		May 31st, 1942

Don't post for a day or two and relegated to page 2 of AARs. I guess it's a good game!

End Game in China

1st, 11th and 23rd Armies are descending on Chungking. The 1st and 11th are in place in the city. The 23rd will take 2 division across the river in 2 days. The 12th Army netted 10k in casualties against stragglers retreating from Ankang. The 25th Army made it's first attack against Kunming, the only other stronghold in China causing 10-1 losses. They need to rest for a day or two. I'm sending some Combat engineers into the Kunming to help reduce the forts. The 15th Army is pushing eastward.

25th Army

Ground combat at Kunming (69,48)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 18645 troops, 341 guns, 488 vehicles, Assault Value = 672

Defending force 61736 troops, 224 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1031

Japanese adjusted assault: 198

Allied adjusted defense: 490

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
514 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 43 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Vehicles lost 67 (4 destroyed, 63 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
5153 casualties reported
Squads: 218 destroyed, 26 disabled
Non Combat: 172 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 30 (24 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Assaulting units:
8th Armored Car Co
8th Tank Regiment
1st Tank Regiment
56th Division
4th Tank Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
2nd RF Gun Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
21st Mortar Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion
1st RF Gun Battalion
5th Mortar Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
31st Chinese Corps
62nd Chinese Corps
64th Chinese Corps
54th Chinese Corps
67th Chinese Corps
86th Chinese Corps
94th Chinese Corps
84th Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
43rd Chinese Corps
52nd Chinese Corps
6th Construction Regiment
9th War Area
16th Group Army
11th Group Army
6th War Area
9th Group Army
11th Chinese Base Force
4th War Area
35th Group Army
32nd Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Base Force
26th Group Army
45th Chinese Corps
44th Chinese Corps
87th Chinese Corps
16th Chinese Base Force

15th Army

Ground combat at 64,45 (near Paoshan)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 12111 troops, 98 guns, 95 vehicles, Assault Value = 363

Defending force 19314 troops, 68 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 173

Japanese adjusted assault: 289

Allied adjusted defense: 118

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
60 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
8612 casualties reported
Squads: 216 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 357 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 11 (11 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 4

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
14th Tank Regiment
33rd Division

Defending units:
24th Chinese Corps
10th Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Cavalry/B Corps





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/11/2015 5:35:32 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 319
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 3:38:10 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		With China soon out of the game, I'm wondering what now?

China was my main goal for this game and I'll achieve it by end of June at the latest, at least 6 more months of campaigning at my disposal, 5 divisions from Luzon available, 1 division in Shanghai (from Manchuko) awaiting transport, 4 from the 25th, the 11th Army will be freed up (though it will need to released) and of course more from Manchuko that can be freed up. There's also 2 armored divisions coming online soon. One will definitely shift to Burma. The second, I'm very tempted to put into Hokkaido with the ability to shift it elsewhere if needed.

In China, the 12th Army will do main garrison duty in the center, shifting as many excess as possible divisions towards Kweiyang and the 23rd Army. The 23rd will defend western China and prevent Allied advance that direction. The 11th Army will shift down to Canton and be first priority for being freed up as I can either use them elsewhere or move them into Hanoi for support of an Allied advance towards Thailand from both Burma and via Java. That leaves 7 divisions in Burma (if I don't do anything else with the 25th Army) and 1 Armored Division (eventually). The 11th Army in Reserve (5 divisions) to help out with Burma or Thailand or elsewhere. The 23rd close to Burma (3 division). The 12th in reserve of the 23rd.

I'm simply not sure what to do now. My gut says leave the 25th for Burma and to place the remaining 6 divisions in strategic spots, such as Hokkaido, Truk, Saipan, Babeldaob, Java and let the 25th and 15th defend Burma. Have troop transport task forces available to shift divisions and Air HQs along the Allied Axis of attacks. Conserve and build up. From an expansion point of view, I'm happy right now. N. Oz is denied to the allies. SoPac is denied. CenPac is building up as is Java and Timor. Interior lines are building up.

The second choice is to now use the 10 free divisions to attack somewhere. Very tempting as I'll still have carrier superiority through 42. However, I'm still having massive issues with the resource AI. Fuel is simply stopping at Singers. 750k to be exact. 300k of Oil. Nothing is moving out of it. IMO, the resource/fuel movement part of the game is broken as I don't remember these issues 4-5 years ago.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/11/2015 5:04:28 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 320
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 4:10:13 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		That is nothing at Singers, you can easily ship it out of there. Using the magic highway is really super gamey anyhow.

You can ship it to Hong Kong if you like, from there it isn't that difficult to get it to flow to Fusan or Port Arthur or Shanghai or Nagasaki/Shimoneski. Singers makes for a nice big port to load those tonan whalers.

How fast are you thinking of knocking China out? You have to take the Chungking, clear the mtns, then march to somewhere useful. Not a fast prospect.

Anyhow, congrats on doing so well...I see you are worried about Hokkaido! Just remember, the Allies will pretty much bypass your strongpoints! So, if you are strong at Hokkaido, he may go for Sumatra first. Pretty impossible to be strong everywhere.



(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 321
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 4:22:06 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

That is nothing at Singers, you can easily ship it out of there. Using the magic highway is really super gamey anyhow.


I don't believe that the magic highway is gamey since Japan was going to use it in the actual war. It's why they launched a massive campaign with 17 divisions to take Changsha.

However, I have no choice. I'll have to start shipping out of Singapore

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 322
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 4:28:02 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

How fast are you thinking of knocking China out? You have to take the Chungking, clear the mtns, then march to somewhere useful. Not a fast prospect.


The Chinese units facing the 15th Army are depleted badly. They lost 8k in casualties from the 15th Army yesterday. There's only 1 division and 1 tank regiment from the 15th Army, but it will be enough to take Paoshan.

The units facing the 25th Army are also badly depleted. The first attack on Kunming caused 5k in casualties to 500 to me, which has been pretty much par for the course. He's badly over-stacked there. I'm expecting no more than 1 month to take the remaining cities including Changsha.

Wenchow will still hold and I'm debating on focusing on taking it or just letting it live in obscurity. It is really worth the effort? I will take 10+ Army bomber sentai and take out all remaining supply there. He's already at 6 level forts (possibly higher) in Wenchow, so I just might let that city live.

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/11/2015 5:30:59 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 323
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 4:33:41 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

quote:

That is nothing at Singers, you can easily ship it out of there. Using the magic highway is really super gamey anyhow.


I don't believe that the magic highway is gamey since Japan was going to use it in the actual war. It's why they launched a massive campaign with 17 divisions to take Changsha.

However, I have no choice. I'll have to start shipping out of Singapore


How much fuel and oil did they ship by a combination of train/vehicle/cart from Singers to Fusan?



(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 324
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 4:39:45 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		They launched the operation in 1944 (google Ichi-Go) for the express purpose of moving resources/fuel/oil overland. By then, the Allies had Saipan and had launched their strategic bombing campaign. It was too little too late.

The point is, Japan had the idea of doing this in the real war and would not have committed 17 division to the operation if they didn't think it was important. They should have done it in 42.

So there's no way to tell what the full affect would have been. Another "what if"

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/11/2015 5:40:27 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 325
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 4:42:35 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		My point would be that without a railroad it would be an impossible task. And even then it would be very hard.




(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 326
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 5:03:32 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		I do know that the rail system in 1944 is different than reflected in WITP, whether is was built out during the war or otherwise (for game balance). The rail system existed from Liuchow/Hong Kong clear to Manchuko via Changsha and the goal of the operation was to enable resource movement from DEI/Malaysia into ports closer to Japan. So obviously, they felt that it was worth the effort and achievable.

Now, realism and WITP aren't the same. You can't interdict supply movement with bombing the same way in WITP. Guerrillas aren't reflected either. Both caused the Japanese issues post-operation. And though the operation was a resounding success, it happened too late in the war to have any impact. However, the magic road was real in terms of Japanese thought. So I'm not convinced at all that it's gamey.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 327
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 6:11:59 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline 		Japan was not really good at running railroads on occupied territories it seems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma_Railway was built successfully, but transported woefully few cargos because of all the issues with steamers/security/track quality. I doubt they could pull off anything large enough on the "magic highway" to matter for the Home Islands industry in reality. Certainly not with oil

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 328
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 10:26:31 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Yep...the magic road is a big what if. No way to tell if it could have worked since it happened too late. Plus, the game doesn't model supply interdiction, etc...

Doesn't matter for me because the resource AI is pretty much not giving me much. Going to have to transport out of Singers now.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 329
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/11/2015 10:30:50 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		June 3rd, 1942

Not so End Game in China

Well, the attack against Chungking was pretty much a disaster. I decided to shock to support the 2 divs crossing the river. Wish I hadn't crossed the river nor done a shock attack. This will push the campaign out a month. The 12th Army still has 4 divisions and 3 brigades all in strong shape and there's a division, brigade and 2 arm regiments just north of Chungking, so I'm not without reinforcements, but now I need to wait for the 12th Army and rebuild a bit.

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 66605 troops, 695 guns, 526 vehicles, Assault Value = 2359

Defending force 145441 troops, 822 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4101

Japanese adjusted assault: 363

Allied adjusted defense: 13073

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 36 (fort level 6)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
29502 casualties reported
Squads: 732 destroyed, 636 disabled
Non Combat: 115 destroyed, 675 disabled
Engineers: 124 destroyed, 67 disabled
Guns lost 134 (51 destroyed, 83 disabled)
Vehicles lost 424 (198 destroyed, 226 disabled)
Units destroyed 3

Allied ground losses:
1540 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 136 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 29 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 16 (1 destroyed, 15 disabled)

Assaulting units:
13th Division
9th Division
9th Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
8th Ind Engineer Regiment
5th Armored Car Co
6th Division
13th Tank Regiment
2nd Ind Engineer Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
26th Division
3rd Division
15th Tank Regiment
40th Division
39th Division
10th Tank Regiment
1st Army
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th Army
23rd Army
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
82nd Chinese Corps
8th Construction Regiment
20th Chinese Corps
42nd Chinese Corps
95th Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Cavalry Corps
83rd Chinese Corps
23rd Chinese Corps
33rd Chinese Corps
22nd Chinese Corps
17th Chinese Corps
39th Chinese Corps
69th Chinese Corps
51st Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
55th Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
34th Separate Brigade
92nd Chinese Corps
77th Chinese Corps
12th Chinese Corps
15th Chinese Corps
12th Construction Regiment
Lusu War Area
1st War Area
22nd Artillery Regiment
41st AA Regiment
56th AT Gun Regiment
1st Construction Regiment
Central Reserve
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment
1st Artillery Regiment
49th AA Regiment
2nd Group Army
CAF HQ
7th Artillery Regiment
China Command
6th Group Army
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
4th Chinese Base Force

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/11/2015 11:32:10 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 330
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