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Observations from a Casual Gamer - 5/31/2015 6:32:44 PM   
Beruldsen

 

Posts: 174
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I just finished the Main Campaign as the Allies vs the AI. I play a lot of war games (Total War, Panzer Core, WITE, Civilization, Civil War II, To End All Wars ...) and always against the AI. Here's what I noted playing a complete campaign in WITW. I make these observations assuming the the developers want WITW to be playable to gamers of all levels (grognards to newbies):

1. The Learning Curve is simply too Steep especially the Air Campaign. After a million restarts, countless posts on the forum, I still don't feel like I have a decent grasp on how to play the game. Here's my recommendation...at the beginning of every turn have an Adviser, like your Chief of Staff, make suggestions and observations. Here are some examples...you'll need so much shipping tonnage for 5 landings (I learned this the hard way), some of your Air Drops are not valid (still don't fully understand why some aren't), there a 20 V-Rockets in xxx city that would be a good target, you are seriously short on fuel in 5th and 9th Armies. You get the idea. I understand all this info is available if you dig deep enough ... but doing hours of research, each turn, detracts from a fun gaming experience. A quick summary at the start of every turn would be very helpful. Here's what happened to me. I spent all this time planning for an 8 TF landing in France only to realize at the moment of execution that I didn't have nearly enough shipping. Obviously, that was a big mistake on a number of fronts but the point is I had invested all that time only have to restart my game. Very frustrating. Frustrated gamers are not happy gamers.

2. The Air Campaign. After all those restarts I believe I figured out how things worked ... but I never got a sense of what was working. As a result I probably spent too much time using my Tac Bombers (especially Typhoons) on Panzer units and with good success. Railyards, Railroads, Units, Manpower, Interdiction are all fuzzy. I have ADs on Interdiction and I see these big numbers in yellow on the results screen but I don't know what they mean and I certainly don't want to drill down to find out the specifics. I liked managing all those squadrons but the user experience needs to be improved.

3. What's with the Other Losses. On many, many turns the biggest number was Other Losses. I've heard it might losses in transport but it must be more than that since I often had big numbers when no units where being transported. This category needs to be expanded so it is clearer how to avoid these losses.

4. Bombing Cities. Ok, I get it, you need to bomb cities to reduce German production. But what cities and how many each turn? I've heard some folks were getting 14-16 bombing VPs a turn. I never got over 9 and most of the time much less. A little guidance here would be helpful.

5. Bombing U-Boats and V-Rockets. Late in my last campaign I found a way to list the targets by type (just V-Rockets and Lauchers for example). How many do you have to destroy to get a point? Given that these make up much of your VPs, a summary, as noted in #1 above, would be helpful.

6. Aircraft Type and Loads. I had some fun playing with this but I had no idea what worked. Early in my campaign, I switched a bunch of Spitfires to Typhoons, not realizing they would be inactive to 2 months. When you make this change a message box should appear indicating this and perhaps how many are in transition. There should be a summary where you can go that helps in spelling out what aircraft are best for what and the corresponding loads. The Air Campaign is daunting ... anything that simplifies the process would be helpful and add to the enjoyment of the process.

7. Early End to Game. I'm not sure why but the Campaign is suppose to go for 110 turns, but in my campaign it stopped at 95 turns and ended as a Draw just as the German heartland was wide open. Is this a bug?

8. Finally, Scoring the VPs. I'm not sure you could have made it any more confusing. I don't want to see all those pluses and minuses I just want to accumulate points. Destroy 10 U-Boats ... 10 VPs, capture Essen ... 5 points. I remember looking at the manual and thinking thank god we've graduated from slide-rules to calculators. Was it really necessary to make it so complicated. I remember crossing the Rhine and guessing what cities I should target. As a caveat, in my game, I was inflicting losses on the Germans at almost 2 to 1, which I would have thought would have been pretty good as the attacker. All I saw was US Losses.

That's it...at least for now. Now I know a bunch of you will bemoan my laziness for not taking the time to find out all this information ... for not digging deeper into the Commander's Report or filtering the Production screen but playing this game should not be an exercise in minutia. Expand the tools available and the user/gamer is likely to have more fun gaming.

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RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 5/31/2015 7:14:16 PM   
Kronolog

 

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For better or for worse, when playing this kind of game it's necessary to consult the manual (or the "player's handbook") every now and then. I think you'll find the answers you need therein.

(in reply to Beruldsen)
Post #: 2
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 5/31/2015 7:38:49 PM   
zakblood


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no comment

< Message edited by zakblood -- 5/31/2015 10:12:55 PM >

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RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 5/31/2015 7:41:23 PM   
AWGreif


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7. the game end at turn 96, when historically the Soviets reached Berlin.
Turn 110 is possible when the Axis player (H2H or playing against the Allied AI) chooses to use the "East Front" box, thus having the chance to send more units there and delay the Red Army Beyond the historical date.


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(in reply to Kronolog)
Post #: 4
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 5/31/2015 7:46:25 PM   
RedLancer


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Of course we want it to be playable. I think I've personally encountered most of the issues you raise to some extent as I learned the game (and I'm still learning). I tried to answer as many as possible in the Players's Handbook. Out of interest how many short campaigns did you play before starting a campaign?

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Kronolog)
Post #: 5
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 5/31/2015 8:32:50 PM   
JayTac

 

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I agree that on a lot of fronts the game needs to do a better job of communicating these core aspects to the player. I think handing over important tasks to the AI would be unnecessary though if the UI was simply better at communicating important details and game mechanics to the player.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 6
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 5/31/2015 8:37:29 PM   
Beruldsen

 

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I played a couple of the short campaigns and I played WITE a bunch. You'll note from the replies above...there seems to be some sadistic pride in discovering the most obscure ways to perform something. I bet I speak for a lot of players that would like more readily available information so they can spend more time playing and a LOT less time reading a manual and posting questions on this forum. I should add...many of the issues I experienced ... I didn't know where even issues until I found out too late.

As a note ... I NEVER suggested I wanted the AI to run the Air Directives ... this would hardly be a game if you were just managing ground units.

If the game can end on turn 96 ... the VP screen should probably note it ... since I assumed it would run until 110 which is what the screen states. And don't tell me if I had read the manual I would have known this. If the screen states 110 the expectation is it will end on turn 110.

Another observation: Way too many condescending replies. If players are experiencing issues ... as a programmer myself, the thought process shouldn't be to refer the player to the manual but rather what steps can be taken to minimize the need to reference a manual.

I would love to see this franchise continue to grow and prosper and the only way that will occur is if you continue to bring new players to the fold. If you honestly believe reading a 500 page manual is the requisite for successfully playing the game, you're not likely to draw many new players.

So simply, from a developers perspective, what steps can you take to facilitate the players decision making process. Seems like a reasonable request...

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(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 7
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 5/31/2015 8:38:52 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
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Yep, that's the key. I played Husky at least 4 times as WA and that is a really really simple scenario. I think the effort put in to an advisor (a la Total War) would be totally wasted on most gamers. I turn the advisor off on most games after a few goes, and then the programming effort is lost to me.

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(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 8
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 5/31/2015 9:25:23 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arne Beruldsen

I just finished the Main Campaign as the Allies vs the AI. I play a lot of war games (Total War, Panzer Core, WITE, Civilization, Civil War II, To End All Wars ...) and always against the AI. Here's what I noted playing a complete campaign in WITW. I make these observations assuming the the developers want WITW to be playable to gamers of all levels (grognards to newbies):

1. The Learning Curve is simply too Steep especially the Air Campaign. After a million restarts, countless posts on the forum, I still don't feel like I have a decent grasp on how to play the game. Here's my recommendation...at the beginning of every turn have an Adviser, like your Chief of Staff, make suggestions and observations. Here are some examples...you'll need so much shipping tonnage for 5 landings (I learned this the hard way), some of your Air Drops are not valid (still don't fully understand why some aren't), there a 20 V-Rockets in xxx city that would be a good target, you are seriously short on fuel in 5th and 9th Armies. You get the idea. I understand all this info is available if you dig deep enough ... but doing hours of research, each turn, detracts from a fun gaming experience. A quick summary at the start of every turn would be very helpful. Here's what happened to me. I spent all this time planning for an 8 TF landing in France only to realize at the moment of execution that I didn't have nearly enough shipping. Obviously, that was a big mistake on a number of fronts but the point is I had invested all that time only have to restart my game. Very frustrating. Frustrated gamers are not happy gamers.


I think your adviser is a good idea. Not sure if it could be made to work or not.

quote:

2. The Air Campaign. After all those restarts I believe I figured out how things worked ... but I never got a sense of what was working. As a result I probably spent too much time using my Tac Bombers (especially Typhoons) on Panzer units and with good success. Railyards, Railroads, Units, Manpower, Interdiction are all fuzzy. I have ADs on Interdiction and I see these big numbers in yellow on the results screen but I don't know what they mean and I certainly don't want to drill down to find out the specifics. I liked managing all those squadrons but the user experience needs to be improved.


There is no short answer here, you have to read the manual. What would be nice is if the manual had an index so you could, for example, look up "interdiction" and get the pages numbers where it is referred to. FYI you can see the results of your interdiction by pressing one button on the toolbar. This will display number on the map (from 0 to 9) showing your level of interdiction in each hex. The higher the number the better. Interdicted hexes will slow movement, hamper supply, cause disorganization and increase casualties on units retreating through them.

quote:

3. What's with the Other Losses. On many, many turns the biggest number was Other Losses. I've heard it might losses in transport but it must be more than that since I often had big numbers when no units where being transported. This category needs to be expanded so it is clearer how to avoid these losses.


"Other Losses" means Other than US Losses. In other words losses to the British, Canadians, etc. You receive more negative VPs for losses to these units than you do to your US forces.

quote:

4. Bombing Cities. Ok, I get it, you need to bomb cities to reduce German production. But what cities and how many each turn? I've heard some folks were getting 14-16 bombing VPs a turn. I never got over 9 and most of the time much less. A little guidance here would be helpful.


People were only gaining 14-16 (actually some claim they got as much as 18-20 VPs per turn) in 1943. In 1944 the VPs you gain from bombing are reduced so you are doing good to get 4-5 VPs perturn. Also, you only get VPs for bombing certain things: namely HI and Manpower in Germany and Oil and Fuel anywhere (you get VPs for bombing something else but I forget what). The other targets (aircraft, vehicles, AFVs, etc) do not gain you any VPs. So your only purpose in bombing them would be to reduce German production to hinder their war effort. However, there is currently a debate in the Forum as tho whether or not Strategic Bombing does anything to impact (or at least seriously impact) the German war effort. For example, The German tends to run out of pilots long before he runs out of planes. For this reason most WA Players have just been bombing for VPs. In this case you primarily want to target the HI and manpower as they are repaired more slowly than Oil and fuel. But upcoming rule changes may change this.

quote:

5. Bombing U-Boats and V-Rockets. Late in my last campaign I found a way to list the targets by type (just V-Rockets and Lauchers for example). How many do you have to destroy to get a point? Given that these make up much of your VPs, a summary, as noted in #1 above, would be helpful.


You do not get any points for bombing U-Boats and V rockets. But in 1943 you gain negative VPs (call them German VPs deducted from your WA VPs if you want) for U-boats and in 1944 and later you gain negative VPs for V-Weapons. The larger the U-boat factory or V-weapon factory or launch facility the more negaitive VPs you get. So you want to target the larger sites. However, just 1 point of damage prevents that site from generating and negative VPs. In other words it makes no difference if the site has 1% or 100% damage, either way it won't hurt you that turn. Of course, the more damage it has the longer it will take to repair.

quote:

6. Aircraft Type and Loads. I had some fun playing with this but I had no idea what worked. Early in my campaign, I switched a bunch of Spitfires to Typhoons, not realizing they would be inactive to 2 months. When you make this change a message box should appear indicating this and perhaps how many are in transition. There should be a summary where you can go that helps in spelling out what aircraft are best for what and the corresponding loads. The Air Campaign is daunting ... anything that simplifies the process would be helpful and add to the enjoyment of the process.


Changing aircraft type from Spitfires to Typhoons should only have made the squadron inactive for 1 turn. It is retraining an airgroup from fighters to bombers that puts you out of action for 2 months, and I believe there is a warning for this.

quote:

7. Early End to Game. I'm not sure why but the Campaign is suppose to go for 110 turns, but in my campaign it stopped at 95 turns and ended as a Draw just as the German heartland was wide open. Is this a bug?


Answered above.

quote:

8. Finally, Scoring the VPs. I'm not sure you could have made it any more confusing. I don't want to see all those pluses and minuses I just want to accumulate points. Destroy 10 U-Boats ... 10 VPs, capture Essen ... 5 points. I remember looking at the manual and thinking thank god we've graduated from slide-rules to calculators. Was it really necessary to make it so complicated. I remember crossing the Rhine and guessing what cities I should target. As a caveat, in my game, I was inflicting losses on the Germans at almost 2 to 1, which I would have thought would have been pretty good as the attacker. All I saw was US Losses.


I think the scoring system is actually easier then the system you are talking about. Not saying I agree with it, but, in my opinion, it is not too difficult to figure out what you have to do to win as the WA. Take out the subs factories in 43 and the V-weapons in 44 and 45. Bomb for VPs (ie HI, Manpower, Oil and fuel) especially in 43. Avoid taking too many casualties, and capture Cities as quickly as possible. Of course, all of this is easier said than done. As you may know inflicting losses on the Germans doesn't earn you any VPs, but does make you job of capturing cities easier.

quote:

That's it...at least for now. Now I know a bunch of you will bemoan my laziness for not taking the time to find out all this information ... for not digging deeper into the Commander's Report or filtering the Production screen but playing this game should not be an exercise in minutia. Expand the tools available and the user/gamer is likely to have more fun gaming.


Playing this game does not require that you get involved in all the minutia. However, playing it well does. Luckily I think you will find that you don't have to play as an expert to beat the AI. Just take it slow and learn one thing at a time. Eventually it will all come to you. But it is a steep learning curve and I, for one, would not have it any other way. Edit: Well that last bit is not true, I wish it was an easier game to learn and agree with you that it could have been made more user friendly. What I meant is that I enjoy complex games and I would rather play a complex game with lots of detailed accuracy than a simpler game.

One thing I could have done without n this game is choosing the aircraft loadouts. Could it not have been possible to design the game so that the AI chooses the best loadout based on the mission. Such as "Oh we are performing a naval interdiction mission this week, guess I can ditch single 4000lb bomb and load up on mines" or "We are off to bomb Essen this week and the priority is Manpower, time to load the incendiaries".

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/31/2015 10:42:20 PM >

(in reply to Beruldsen)
Post #: 9
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/1/2015 6:39:57 AM   
Helpless


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Thanks for the feedback. Although I doubt it is will ever be easy to play WITW for the total newbie, we are trying to simplify air units management, which is indeed quite complex due to the all details engine is trying to work with. Currently we are testing big new air navigation interface module which should help to manage air groups and air bases.

Advisory idea sounds great, but is very complex to be implemented. There was a proposal to make some sort of the start-up summary screen, but it is not in the game, just because it was not possible to make it up to the proper level in reasonable amount of time. My personal experience with civilization game advisers was the same as for HMSWarspite, I was switching them off very soon.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Beruldsen)
Post #: 10
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/1/2015 12:35:12 PM   
Beruldsen

 

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Thanks for the extensive comments above (Harrybanana, Helpless ...).

I never used the Advisory feature for any length of time in the other games either...but I sure did when I was new to the game. It provided a place to start and things to think about which is especially valuable when you are new to the franchise or the newest version of a game.

I should also note that it would be valuable to have a section in the manual that suggests how to best utilize aircraft and loads. For example, Typhoons best as Bombers vs Fighter and what the suggested load should be for a certain type of target.

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RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/1/2015 5:40:58 PM   
tiger111

 

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I totally agree with the OP.

Sure it`s fine to have an accuratele modelled Air War but the the main problem is of feedback to the player as to what`s going on without having to delve into subsections of obscure menus.

Doesn`t help having the air war spread over 3 chapters in the main manual.

We just need to get a better idea of what`s happening so we can experiment-if you dont know you are flailing around in the dark.

I`ve found far more about how to play from the One Page guides that I ever did reading the manual.


(in reply to Beruldsen)
Post #: 12
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/1/2015 6:24:18 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

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That's possibly because the one page guides are designed to... tell you most of what you want to know without reading the manual?

But what do I know?

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Post #: 13
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/2/2015 8:01:20 PM   
RichMunn

 

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The original poster is right and wrong in equal measure.

First of all he is deluded (no offence) if he thinks he is a casual gamer. He’s played a lot of WITE! If that’s casual then I have always misunderstood the meaning of the word.
Secondly, he seems to be trying to protect what he sees as casual gamers from the manual. In fact his post is on behalf of casual gamers, not by one. I bought WITW knowing that if I were to understand it, or even get near, then I would have to immerse myself in the detail. I’ve been trying, gradually, and with the help of reading almost incomprehensible AARs and posts on here, I am getting the hang of it slowly. Very slowly, but that’s fine.
I do not think an advisor is the answer; it’s too complex.

However, where he is RIGHT is in his suggestion that the answer isn’t easily available anywhere even for a patient learner like me. I click on a unit or a stack. I right click to see its TOE and so forth. There are numbers in brackets. There are a number of columns. Nowhere in the manual (and I have been through it because I didn’t want to make an unnecessary fuss) is there a clear description of what this is all about. So much is assumed. That could be seen in the choice of tutorial videos, which completely ignore land combat.
I suspect that this is because for grognard gamers the land war, the actual fighting between land units, is something they understand, and which is taken as read by the authors of the manual. Well I have no idea about it. And I can’t find it. And I’m not stupid, and I expect it is in the manual somewhere, but hey, even I get fed up with that after a rather unrewarding while.
There is no beginner’s guide to the land war in WITW. I am presumed to know all about Mr. Grigsby’s War in the East, obviously, and before anyone tells me I should buy Decisive Campaigns Case Blue, I have, and I’m enjoying it because I understand it even if I’m no good at it. I am not being made to feel excluded by that game.

I am somebody who wants to enjoy these games, and is prepared to spend time on them. I even read the posts about WITP just to see to what degree I can’t understand them!! (And that’s mad) But where the op is entirely correct is that there is a sort of exclusivity which would put any new gamer off; maybe it’s intended to be so. That’s a shame.

That’s my sixpennorth. (An old Welsh expression….)

Now somebody tell me that I’ve missed the very understandable bit in the manual about land combat…..(I’m expecting it- but I have broad shoulders!)

Hwyl Fawr everyone. These forums are great.




(in reply to Beruldsen)
Post #: 14
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/2/2015 11:21:14 PM   
Dante Fierro


Posts: 330
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Thanks for the feedback. Although I doubt it is will ever be easy to play WITW for the total newbie, we are trying to simplify air units management, which is indeed quite complex due to the all details engine is trying to work with. Currently we are testing big new air navigation interface module which should help to manage air groups and air bases.

Advisory idea sounds great, but is very complex to be implemented. There was a proposal to make some sort of the start-up summary screen, but it is not in the game, just because it was not possible to make it up to the proper level in reasonable amount of time. My personal experience with civilization game advisers was the same as for HMSWarspite, I was switching them off very soon.


This sounds great. One suggestion, if the player can have the option to move the right hand side panel to the bottom half of the screen - like it is presented in WitP AE? It just seemed weird to me that I was doing all my work (especially the air management work) on that part of the screen real estate, which is rather unusual for pc computer games I've played. It felt ... uncomfortable. Usually, when using an interface I work either with a left hand panel or a top panel, or like in WitP AE a bottom panel. The best option would to allow the player choose where certain panels he will use will show up.

Of course I'm only one voice here. It may just be me. But it's feedback. Good luck with the new module for air. Looking forward to it.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 15
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/3/2015 2:36:14 AM   
cmunson


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I don't know given the engine and scope if it will ever be an "easy" game to learn and I find it interesting that given the games complexity at least half of the feature requests on the forums are for added complexity. Some things that helped me get up to speed on the game:

While turn is running I pop up the manual which I've minimized and read new sections. I always have the manual open while playing.

I understand the frustration of learning effective air strategies and I certainly floundered for some time. I freely admit to executing an air turn, reloading the turn, changing load outs, targets, intensity, etc. and running turn again to see what works and what doesn't which brings me to my next point.

Don't obsess on winning for quite a few games. You probably won't. Even after a dozen campaign games as Allies I can't break minor victory.

Everything is not in the manual. The games models history so I also take time to read history on the planes, tactics and strategy on the web while playing. I knew Antwerp important to take as Allies but had no appreciation of how important until I read a book on the campaign in western Europe. Sure enough, as in real life taking the port greatly helps Allied supply situation. Read a study online that Luftwaffe did on plane mounted cannons versus Allied bombers and true to form I find firepower most important factor in bringing down bombers.

Let the computer do the hard part. First few games I let AI manage 90% of the air campaign. Then I started doing more manually and now I can rather quickly set all my missions.

Print out a list of the keyboard shortcuts and keep handy.

Peruse the AAR's. Players frequently have good tips.

It does get easier.







_____________________________

Chris

(in reply to Dante Fierro)
Post #: 16
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/3/2015 6:53:10 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

This sounds great. One suggestion, if the player can have the option to move the right hand side panel to the bottom half of the screen - like it is presented in WitP AE? It just seemed weird to me that I was doing all my work (especially the air management work) on that part of the screen real estate, which is rather unusual for pc computer games I've played. It felt ... uncomfortable. Usually, when using an interface I work either with a left hand panel or a top panel, or like in WitP AE a bottom panel. The best option would to allow the player choose where certain panels he will use will show up.


I can understand the force of habit as it took sometime for myself to get used to right side panel in WITE. Unfortunately it is not an independent object and is integrated into map code, which means that position customization is extremely difficult.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Dante Fierro)
Post #: 17
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/3/2015 7:33:22 AM   
RedLancer


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@ Rich Munn

Did you read the Player's Handbook? If you did then how could it be improved? If not why not? Should it have been printed?

We do know the learning curve is steep and we have done everything to try and explain things. I do realise that I may know so much that I fail to explain things without making too many assumptions on understanding. Finally I deliberately wrote the Player's Guide to not be a WitE to WitW conversion manual. Whilst redoing the manual is probably a task too far; re-jigging the handbook is much easier.



_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 18
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/3/2015 4:24:34 PM   
RichMunn

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 5/14/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

@ Rich Munn

Did you read the Player's Handbook? If you did then how could it be improved? If not why not? Should it have been printed?

We do know the learning curve is steep and we have done everything to try and explain things. I do realise that I may know so much that I fail to explain things without making too many assumptions on understanding. Finally I deliberately wrote the Player's Guide to not be a WitE to WitW conversion manual. Whilst redoing the manual is probably a task too far; re-jigging the handbook is much easier.




First, an apology; I found exactly what I was looking for AFTER reading the part about land combat in the Player’s Handbook, when I was directed to 26.3.14 in the manual, at page 254. There it was, a blow-by-blow explanation of the graphic I was looking at, with illustration. So I am grateful that I have not had a volley of criticism for saying I couldn’t find it!

However, exactly how to use this information when deciding whether to engage the unit in combat is perhaps another matter. No doubt experience is all.

I may have given a misleading and over-critical impression. I have great admiration for the work that has gone into the handbook and the manual, and I covet the hardback edition! The Player’s Manual should certainly have been printed; it is excellent as far as it goes, and I understand the compromise that has to be made when trying to simplify or precis anything. As you will have seen my difficulty is not with the Air phases, which are new to everybody and have attracted loads of comments – I am doing what others have suggested and am gradually moving to manual adjustments. It is the land battles, and assessing comparative strengths and the wisdom of attacking in particular places. I can see the strengths of the stacks on top when hovering the mouse over the attack destination, of course. I do think a little simple help with some examples would have helped me, though many, perhaps most, others would not need it. A video tutorial on a land battle would assist too.

Anyway, I’m enjoying my flirtation with WITW and who knows it may well turn into more. I am not moaning!

Hwyl fawr,

Rich



(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 19
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/3/2015 4:45:36 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
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Rich

Thank you for your reply and absolutely no need for an apology. I think the handbook should have been printed too but then I would say that as the author. Just between you and I, I use the handbook to find stuff in the manual all the time. The game is so complex it is almost impossible to write the manual in a simple way and Al did a great job explaining all the detail. I really struggled with the WitE manual and I wanted to bridge the gap. A further tutorial would have been great but I think they took ages to do and Joel was overloaded with other tasks as we went for release.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to RichMunn)
Post #: 20
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/3/2015 5:06:55 PM   
IronWarrior


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From: Beaverton, OR
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I don't know if this helps anyone (or is perhaps already obvious- wasn't for me at first :D), but to add on to what Chris said- you can also click 'ctrl-f' in the .pdf manual and type a keyword to quickly surf through the manual for relevant info. My memory isn't in well enough shape to memorize all the rules etc. :)

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 21
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/3/2015 10:11:25 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronWarrior

I don't know if this helps anyone (or is perhaps already obvious- wasn't for me at first :D), but to add on to what Chris said- you can also click 'ctrl-f' in the .pdf manual and type a keyword to quickly surf through the manual for relevant info. My memory isn't in well enough shape to memorize all the rules etc. :)


Actual I did not know this trick IronWarrior so thank you very much. Unfortunately, for me personally I find it very difficult to sit at a computer screen and read and comprehend an online manual. Not sure why this is, maybe an age thing. In any event I printed off the Manual, hole punched the pages and put it into a binder. While this is much easier for me to read it means I can't take advantage of your suggestion.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 6/3/2015 11:12:11 PM >

(in reply to IronWarrior)
Post #: 22
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/3/2015 10:21:09 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
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Not sure how much interest it will generate, but I am planning on doing an AAR to show novice players (and perhaps even some non-novice players) how to win a Decisive Victory against the AI. I will be using a game I am only about half way completed now. Unfortunately I did not start the game with the intention it be used as a teaching AAR (or even an AAR at all) but I will do what I can.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 6/3/2015 11:22:28 PM >

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 23
RE: Observations from a Casual Gamer - 6/4/2015 6:47:07 PM   
RichMunn

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 5/14/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

Not sure how much interest it will generate, but I am planning on doing an AAR to show novice players (and perhaps even some non-novice players) how to win a Decisive Victory against the AI. I will be using a game I am only about half way completed now. Unfortunately I did not start the game with the intention it be used as a teaching AAR (or even an AAR at all) but I will do what I can.


Well, Mr. Banana (or may I call you Harry?) such a project has my entire support.

I very much look forward to it.

Thanks,

Rich

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 24
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