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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: OT for the firearm collectors.

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RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/19/2015 4:47:38 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sventhebold

No Glocks for me
http://forums.officer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-83832.html
Basically he hung his gun on the hanger post while he went to the bathroom and then it discharged when he grabbed it.

That safety mechanism between the ears can become disengaged at any time!

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Post #: 31

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/19/2015 1:54:38 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

Talked to the Gunnery Sergeant in charge of the pistol range at Pensacola. Gave him the web address so he could see it. He says it's very nice and looks to be in "good" condition. He's seen Remington Navy Model of 1911s like this go for $2500 or more (up to $4-5000). I asked about the lug on the magazine and he said the early ones came that way; it's one way to tell a weapon with an original mag, Remington or Colt. I asked why and he says it's to secure the magazine from loss. Actually .. so the gobs don't lose the mag overboard when they push the wrong button .

John

Thanks for asking him John. The magazine I have with the pistol was probably manufactured right after WWI. The correct magazine for one produced in 1913 is called a "keyhole" magazine. I have attached a photo of one featuring the keyhole. My magazine does not. However, the magazine was considered a disposable part of a pistol so it is not uncommon to have the wrong type. Nor does it affect the collector value much. I see that I can find one (keyhole) on the web fairly easy. More important is the barrel has [probably been replaced. The correct barrels have and h and a p stamped on the top. My barrel looks to be newer. A correct barrel might cost me $750 but it may be worth it for me to look for one.

One thing, I am pretty sure of is that all Navy model m1911 were made by Colt. I don' think Remington (and not Remington arms but the office machine makers)came into the picture until WWII and they made the m1911-A model. Many were issued to the Navy and can be identified by serial number but after 1917 they all said US Army on the slide. Here is a short history. http://www.gunvaluesboard.com/colt-1911-navy-models-1963.html All of them have value. Even a mixed part WWII Army version in good shooting condition will fetch a grand or more these days. All lot of them "left" the service after the war as vets wanted to keep their weapons. It is funny but many have the "property of US government" either scratched out or sanded down. Apparently the owners thought the US Government would not catch on. This destroys the value of the gun as a collectible. And where they have scratched off the US Navy on the other side.....well, it just makes the hard core cry.

I sound like an expert here but am not. Just having the gun for a short time has been great for me as I have had a blast just learning something new.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 32

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/19/2015 1:58:12 PM

crsutton

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This is what the barrel is suppose to look like. Mine is missing the stamps.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 33

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/19/2015 5:55:34 PM

m10bob

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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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The army taught us a very peculiar way to take them apart and I have never seen a civilian who had ever seen it done the army way..The gyrenes in my AIT at Fort Gorden also had not seen it done that way.(The gyrenes were familiarized with the pistol in their boot, the army basics were not.)..

Scratching marks from the handgun?....What do they say about "casting pearls before swine"?

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Post #: 34

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/19/2015 6:17:03 PM

Symon

Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
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Gunny Muntz says sorry for confusion. He was thinking of the UMC/Remington Model 1911 made in 1918. There's a bunch of different ones, as you say mostly Colts, but not all; some marked Navy, some made for USMC and marked Navy (but not always). he's got a serial number list, by mfg and service, somewhere, that goes from 1912 to 1919. When he can find it, he'll send it, but he uses NRA and special gun sites like you do.

John

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Post #: 35

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/19/2015 6:26:33 PM

crsutton

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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

Gunny Muntz says sorry for confusion. He was thinking of the UMC/Remington Model 1911 made in 1918. There's a bunch of different ones, as you say mostly Colts, but not all; some marked Navy, some made for USMC and marked Navy (but not always). he's got a serial number list, by mfg and service, somewhere, that goes from 1912 to 1919. When he can find it, he'll send it, but he uses NRA and special gun sites like you do.

John

Yes, I see what he meant. The USMC models were marked US Army but there is a record of the serial numbers issued to the Marines so they can tell which one went where. They are prized collector items as well. Remington UMC (not Remington Rand which made them in WWII) made the USMC model and they started manufacture in 1917-I think.

http://www.nramuseum.org/guns/the-galleries/world-war-i-and-firearms-innovation/case-32-wwi-america-and-the-allies/us-remington-umc-model-1911-semi-automatic-pistol.aspx

< Message edited by crsutton -- 6/19/2015 7:38:05 PM >

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Post #: 36

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/19/2015 6:38:16 PM

Symon

Posts: 1928
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From: De Eye-lands, Mon
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Oh, jeez, as usual, late to the party. Gunny Muntz says try this http://www.sightm1911.com/1911Production.htm. It's a good site for all things relating to the M1911 in general.

John

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Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la libert�! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
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Post #: 37

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/19/2015 7:23:49 PM

Symon

Posts: 1928
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From: De Eye-lands, Mon
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At the risk of going OT on an OT topic, I understand your take on a Taurus, but it really wasn't that much of a POS. Tarrus got the baretta factory and money from S&W and got a huge contract from Brazil in mid 1970s to make PT-92 and Pt-96 pistols. These guys are all over South America.

Mine is a Brazilian PT-92 AF, S/N TLB 378250. Fired often enough that barrel was replaced once. Walnut grips are still good. I can't do the Pensacola pistol course as designed, I'm too old and slow to make the time marker. But if they cut me some slack, I can shoot "good" on the walking targets. I have shot 'expert' on NRA targets with that gun, both 25 and 50 yds. This ain't your grama's Taurus.

Ciao JWE

< Message edited by Symon -- 6/19/2015 8:29:40 PM >

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Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la libert�! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
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Post #: 38

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/19/2015 9:29:25 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Thanks to all, this is actually quite useful info.

Get some defensive firearms training in your area. There is some dubious, but good intention advice here.

A local gun store here, Philadelphia, holds legal clinics taught by lawyers about the ramifications of using deadly force for self protection. After you get something like that, and you still want to, then start shopping for guns.

Buy one gun and more training. Or rent/borrow guns and get more training.

Handguns are very different. What fits me, doesn't you. What I find objectionable (i.e. sights, trigger, safeties, DAO, SAO, revolver, pistol) might be exactly perfect for you and your situation.

You don't need a whole ton of training...say 9-20 hours to give you all the basics you need to protect yourself, just make sure some of it is on the legal aspect.

BTW, WITPQS is correct about automatics. It is still correct to call any slide operated magazine fed handgun an automatic, although it will cause some people to question you.

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Post #: 39

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/19/2015 9:45:38 PM

Lowpe

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It seems your firearm may have had the barrel swapped out.

Here is a picture of my Webley, and I shoot it with ammo I make myself including the casting of the 200 grain lead bullet. Made in 1944 or 1945.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 40

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/20/2015 12:12:20 AM

crsutton

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Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

It seems your firearm may have had the barrel swapped out.

Here is a picture of my Webley, and I shoot it with ammo I make myself including the casting of the 200 grain lead bullet. Made in 1944 or 1945.

Yep, it is not the proper barrel. I get mixed opinions about if it makes sense to find a correct one or leave it as it is. Nice Webley BTW.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 6/20/2015 1:13:26 AM >

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Post #: 41

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/20/2015 4:54:10 AM

robinsa

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Joined: 7/24/2013
From: North Carolina
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Im just going to start with saying that I am no expert.

I love the 1911. It is my absolute favorite gun to shoot because of how it handles, the weight of the gun and the "smooth" punch of the .45. I also think the USP .45 is a nice gun if you like the .45 caliber.

Going back to the age old debate of 9mm vs .45 I would say that I would go with a 9mm for self defense because it carries enough punch but gives you the ability to carry more rounds. If you get a 1911 for self defense I would suggest you get some sort of high capacity magazine since the original 7 rounds can go very quick in a "hot" setting. Personally I would recommend getting the 9mm SIG P226 as it is a really well balanced gun (at least for me shooting with the left) and it doesn't really feel snappy at all.

As for rounds go, I don't think the standard hard ball that someone suggested is a good option. Better just get some hollow-point or something that will do good damage but not penetrate brick walls etc.

Again, I'm FAR from being an expert on the subject but it is a summary of what my experiences have taught me so far. ;)

(Given the age of people on this forum I'm sure the .45 will have overwhelming support..)

< Message edited by robinsa -- 6/20/2015 5:57:50 AM >

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Post #: 42

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/20/2015 4:57:20 AM

robinsa

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Joined: 7/24/2013
From: North Carolina
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OH, and I forgot to say that I would avoid the glock if you like guns and want something that handels well and has a good feel to it. The glock is a piece of plastic that will do the job, but nothing more imo.

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Post #: 43

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/20/2015 2:52:55 PM

Lowpe

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Given the different barrel, I wouldn't feel bad about putting some rounds down thru the gun. Granted, I wouldn't carry it every day or anything like that. But soft pouched to the range, shoot a few, clean gently and forget about it. Might make a nice framed wall display gun.

Sights on these guys are really tough.

Now, if you can find some old steel cased 230 grain hardball you would be good to go....corrosive (primers) ammo I believe so watch out for that, but very, very nifty. The ammo probably did in the first barrel btw.

(in reply to robinsa)

Post #: 44

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/20/2015 4:57:40 PM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

At the risk of going OT on an OT topic, I understand your take on a Taurus, but it really wasn't that much of a POS. Tarrus got the baretta factory and money from S&W and got a huge contract from Brazil in mid 1970s to make PT-92 and Pt-96 pistols. These guys are all over South America.

Mine is a Brazilian PT-92 AF, S/N TLB 378250. Fired often enough that barrel was replaced once. Walnut grips are still good. I can't do the Pensacola pistol course as designed, I'm too old and slow to make the time marker. But if they cut me some slack, I can shoot "good" on the walking targets. I have shot 'expert' on NRA targets with that gun, both 25 and 50 yds. This ain't your grama's Taurus.

Ciao JWE

Like I said John...The Taurus is my "life-saving, better be good first time, every time" concealed carry of choice..

BTW....As good as the M1911a1 was....my dad's sidearm in WW2 was a Browning "Gran Puissance" 9mm 13 shot..

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Post #: 45

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/20/2015 6:10:39 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Given the different barrel, I wouldn't feel bad about putting some rounds down thru the gun. Granted, I wouldn't carry it every day or anything like that. But soft pouched to the range, shoot a few, clean gently and forget about it. Might make a nice framed wall display gun.

Sights on these guys are really tough.

Now, if you can find some old steel cased 230 grain hardball you would be good to go....corrosive (primers) ammo I believe so watch out for that, but very, very nifty. The ammo probably did in the first barrel btw.

Well, even with the odd barrel the gun is very rare and in excellent condition for a Navy model. It is still worth a hell of a lot of money. However, if I shoot it and break a part (unlikely but..) then I just kill the value of the gun. So, I don't think I will shoot it. After not owning a firearm for a decade, my self education about the m1911 has very much made me interested in getting a shooter. This one will most likely go up for auction some time in the future. You can pick up a good condition m1911a for shooting for about $1-1,500.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

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Post #: 46

RE: OT for the firearm collectors. - 6/20/2015 6:47:43 PM

Lowpe

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You could get a milspec 1911 for a lot less, and they make them in different flavors, mine for example is milspec for everything but the sights, I forgot what it is technically called. Mine was made by Springfield, I am sure there are tons out there by other manufacturers too.

The gang that ran with Dillinger did a lot of work on 1911s that we take for granted today, smoothing, sights, trigger, feed ramp, beavertail, extended slide stops, etching. I am sure they weren't the first to fiddle with the guns, from day one shooters probably wrapped the grips with string/twine/tape to deactivate the grip safety for example.

So much great history in 1911s

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 47