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1942 test! - 6/24/2015 6:40:06 PM   
jungelsj_slith

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		*edit*

I've put together a bunch of icon art/weapons/units/formations for a ~1942 eastern front theme (mostly company sized units.) I've built a couple of small scenario tests, the last of which I'll put up here. Check out the "readme" for installation info.

Let me know how it plays out - any and all feedback is appreciated. The scenario is certainly not balanced (I'm not much of a scenario designer), but hopefully is a decent indication of the play-ability for this time period and scale.



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< Message edited by molotov_billy -- 6/29/2015 5:57:54 AM >
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RE: 1942 test! - 6/25/2015 5:31:52 PM   
Tazak

 

Posts: 1452
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Form a starting point, this looks promising although I'm sceptical about the 500m hex range being suitable for early-mid WW2 activity, late war where weapon ranges started to reach out a bit more I think is a good match.

suggestions/thoughts:
National tab - you'll need to change a lot of stats here to bring them down to WW2 levels (3min to call in a mortar barrage is a bit optimistic for the Russians )
Stacking limits/unit sizes - tough call here, most units look okay apart from the german armd inf (53 runners!!) which I suspect is forcing a stacking limit of 130
armour cars - these can be flagged as recce - look at the BRDM2 for tags etc
Infantry guns - maybe look at setting these to be arty (or have I been playing CM too long)
The subunit inspector UI can display up to 5 weapon systems, you appear to have merged squad rifles and LMGs together - I'd be interested to see the user data sheet to peek at how you have handled effective ranges for a combined rifle/LMG



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RE: 1942 test! - 6/25/2015 5:45:11 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 1079
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		This is great! A lot of players are excited about a WWII expansion and this 'd provide a useful start. I agree with Tazak that a '43+ 'd probably suits better the current engine, but hey. Wonder if you could find WWII battles that happened on the current fancy maps...

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/25/2015 8:38:09 PM   
kipanderson

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Molotov_billy, hi,

Congratulations.. I am a hug fan of the idea.. added to which I like the operational feel of 500m hexes for WWII
but I understand that others such as Tazak are keener on a slightly more tactical feel.

But.. great idea.. always hoped Flashpoint would move to Eastern Front WWII as quickly as possible.

All the best,
Kip.



< Message edited by kipanderson -- 6/25/2015 9:38:57 PM >

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/25/2015 10:15:27 PM   
jungelsj_slith

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Tazak, governato, kip - thanks so much for the feedback! Glad someone is taking a look.

I do agree in terms of early/late war - I tend to prefer early stuff when the outcome of the war was fairly undecided, and just went with eastern front for the maneuver possibilities (late war feels like more of a slugging match?)

But yeah, I'll try some longer range/late war stuff as well - kursk, maybe some 44 western front?

I'm almost finished with the larger scenario, which will give you guys a better feel for the grand tactical/operational side of this scale. I'm enjoying it a bit more than the purely tactical weapons tests.

quote:

National tab - you'll need to change a lot of stats here to bring them down to WW2 levels (3min to call in a mortar barrage is a bit optimistic for the Russians )


Thanks, will mess around with that. Hopefully the AI is able to deal with longer call times.

quote:

Stacking limits/unit sizes - tough call here, most units look okay apart from the german armd inf (53 runners!!) which I suspect is forcing a stacking limit of 130


Haha, yes, that recon unit is a beast. They use the smaller 250's with half squads - so lots of subunits. I cranked the stacking limit fairly high in the national tabs, I don't remember the number. Is 130 a hard limit?

quote:

armour cars - these can be flagged as recce - look at the BRDM2 for tags etc


Will do. What exactly does this do? Change the movement behavior, spotting bonus?

quote:

Infantry guns - maybe look at setting these to be arty (or have I been playing CM too long)


Yeah, I've been on the fence about these types of guns - where very often they're used for direct fire and grouped with other direct fire weapons. I think once I change them to arty, they adopt the arty behavior of constantly moving away from enemy units. I think the hardcoded "screen" distances cause a few issues in this setting - they're more appropriate for modern, long range weapons. (81mm mortar's range is barely long enough to reach outside it's screening distance, for example.) Hopefully those numbers can be changed in the data sheet at some point in the future.

quote:

The subunit inspector UI can display up to 5 weapon systems, you appear to have merged squad rifles and LMGs together - I'd be interested to see the user data sheet to peek at how you have handled effective ranges for a combined rifle/LMG


So on my end, I have a bunch of sound work done for weapons. It's super useful/interesting to see when certain weapons are firing, but the big weapons lists make it impossible to hear them all unless you have a very long delay time. For the tanks, I've basically omitted the MG's as a separate weapon for now, since they fire every MG at every target, including tanks - so it's a bit spammy.

So I'm occasionally combining weapons of the same caliber - K98 and MG42 LMG for example - which is basically the LMG values with a slight AP bonus for the rifles. The sound I've made combines the two together. With the number of subunits that are firing, I'm trying anything to reduce the number of "shots" that are going back and forth.



< Message edited by molotov_billy -- 6/25/2015 11:18:43 PM >

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/25/2015 11:21:15 PM   
Tazak

 

Posts: 1452
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		not sure if there is a hard limit on stacking - I look at it this way, 1 arty barrage landing amongst 130 'runners' will take ages to animate 130 booms.

recon units - yes recon units get +1 hex spotting range, harder to spot and more likely to scoot away are the 3 main features so it'll work well with the SdKfz or BA series of armoured cars.

If the armoured light infantry are recon as well you may want to split them down into platoon sized, gives better tactical coverage and would help avoiding having a high stacking limit, plus flagging them as recon will provide them with the same above features

The main issue with combining weapons like the K98 & MG42 is they have different max and effective range, I noticed that the max range shown in the subunit inspector was 1100m - okay for a LMG but well outside the 'normal' range for a squad rifle, maybe use the shorter effective and max ranges of the rifle rather than the LMG or a median of the ranges.


< Message edited by Tazak -- 6/26/2015 12:24:48 AM >

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/26/2015 12:03:37 AM   
Tazak

 

Posts: 1452
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		If your going for an WW2 operational feel to the scenario you may want to try this:

Change the unit scale, i.e. 1 runner is normally a squad, but you can edit it to read as a platoon, likewise a platoon into a coy. I think this would work given the attack/defend frontage differences between WW2 and 1980's formations

I done this in a few minutes, might have to play around some more with other parts of the data but might fit what your aiming for




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< Message edited by Tazak -- 6/26/2015 1:11:42 AM >

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/26/2015 12:31:29 AM   
jungelsj_slith

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		hah, this is awesome. Glad this game is so mod-able. 1 subunit as a platoon seems like a good test.

Tazak - agreed, that unit should probably be split in the same way that some heavy weapons are being split.

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/28/2015 4:34:21 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Who said:

We aren't looking at a WW2 expansion of the series?

That some serious fighting took place in some of our current map locations?

That the system can't show infantry combat for WW2 at the current scale?

Good Hunting.

MR

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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/28/2015 8:21:38 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 1079
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		Mad Russian you speak like an oracle :). So here is a superposition of

a) the Allies gains in Germany in the period April 1st - April 15th 1945 and
b) the maps of FPC.

There is a lot of overlap and so probably quite a few scenarios to be designed, although none including the Red Army.
The region at the border with the Netherlands saw action in 1940 as well.




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< Message edited by governato -- 6/28/2015 10:02:49 PM >

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/28/2015 8:34:57 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 1079
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		Also...I have a feeling (hope?) that somebody at On Target Simulations is (should be?) reading THIS






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RE: 1942 test! - 6/28/2015 9:25:39 PM   
kipanderson

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Govermato, hi,

I am reading it.. :),

But just a customer.. ;).

All the best,
Kip.
PS .It is a big improvement the way so many Eastern Front books now hang on a framework of unit diaries/ war diaries and then add colour with extracts from memoirs.

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/28/2015 10:47:04 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		That book is on order. BUT that's just one of dozens of books that cover the Eastern Front. My library has more than 2000 books in it. About a third of those deal with the Eastern Front.

We won't have a problem doing WW2 when the time comes.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 3:01:08 AM   
jungelsj_slith

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Who said:

We aren't looking at a WW2 expansion of the series?

That some serious fighting took place in some of our current map locations?

That the system can't show infantry combat for WW2 at the current scale?

Good Hunting.

MR


I certainly didn't say any of that! The Flashpoint game engine is amazing, and I'm looking forward to anything you guys do with it.


< Message edited by molotov_billy -- 6/29/2015 7:23:12 AM >

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 5:01:26 AM   
jungelsj_slith

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Finished the larger test scenario - I've updated the original post with the file. I recommend you play as Germany first. I've included a bunch of new icon art, covers the major/unique weapon systems for now. Please check it out and let me know how it goes! (Disclaimer: I'm not a scenario designer, so it's not carefully balanced! Really this is just a test of unit interactions at this time period/scale.)

Thanks for playing.





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< Message edited by molotov_billy -- 6/29/2015 6:02:36 AM >

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 5:26:02 AM   
kipanderson

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Molotov_billy,

Goodness this is impressive stuff... !

Look forward to giving this some time as soon as possible.

Thanks..
All the best,
Kip.

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 5:54:46 AM   
governato

 

Posts: 1079
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From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

this is absolutely great! I playing with it and just bombed some poor Russkies.

But you need some good siren sounds..:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCB8ZVxKqyI


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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 4:23:15 PM   
kipanderson

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Molotov_billy, hi,

I will be making a fool of myself.. ;)

But there don’t seem to be any data files?

Data shows up superbly on the units, fantastic work.. but cannot find the data files ..

Great work,
All the best,
Kip.

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 6:07:30 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Kip, scenarios are self contained. He would have to post the separate data files.

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 6:32:22 PM   
kipanderson

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Capn Darwin,

“Kip, scenarios are self contained.”

Thanks... you will have realised I thought they read the data from the data/country files “live...” as it were.. ;).

Fantastic game,
All the best,
Kip.



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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 6:37:07 PM   
jungelsj_slith

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for the feedback - yes! Stuka sirens are a must.. I'll try and see if its possible to make a unique sound per A/C

Data files - yeah baked in, only need assets like sounds and icons if the scenario calls them. Once data files are further along and a bit cleaner, I can upload a more finished version if anyone wants to make scenarios

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 7:35:59 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Sorry, sounds are generic by type. You could redo the airstrike audio but it could play for any aircraft.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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On Target Simulations LLC

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 8:11:28 PM   
jungelsj_slith

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		I see, thanks. I noticed a prop plane sound in the audio directory as well as a prop plane icon - is there a unit type that will play those sounds? I couldn't find any, only saw jets in the database (may have missed it.)

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 8:14:32 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 1079
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From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

That book is on order. BUT that's just one of dozens of books that cover the Eastern Front. My library has more than 2000 books in it. About a third of those deal with the Eastern Front.

We won't have a problem doing WW2 when the time comes.

Good Hunting.

MR


In an older thread it was suggested/mentioned that a game focused on a specific unit would be very interesting, so when this book came out I thought that a game based on the many battles involving Grossdeutschland and/or 2nd Tank Army on the 43/44 East Front would be great as a possible FPC follow up.

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/29/2015 9:13:01 PM   
kipanderson

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Molotov_billy, hi,

This is incredible stuff.. have reached 14 . 45 and fight is truly on. Note to self.. must remember not to form – up for an assault in view of the enemy. You get a “stonk...” delivered on to your men’s heads.. :).

More thoughts later.. getting late here in the UK... but the conversions works fantastically. Maybe artillery a little too good at counter battery and enemy HQ hunting for WWII/1942 by both sides? Setting up and “networking in...” to continue support too quickly after a move? That sort of thing ... but that is what national settings are for after more thought.

Anyway congratulations.. all I hoped for.. may now have to teach myself how to make maps.. :).

All the best,
Kip.



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Post #: 25
RE: 1942 test! - 6/30/2015 2:46:57 AM   
jungelsj_slith

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		nice! Glad someone is enjoying it. Should have a lot of your guys' suggestions in the next build, delayed artillery etc

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/30/2015 8:23:12 AM   
Phoenix100

 

Posts: 2826
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks MB. Have downloaded and will try out asap. It's not a historical fight, just a test, right?

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RE: 1942 test! - 6/30/2015 5:27:41 PM   
jungelsj_slith

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix

Thanks MB. Have downloaded and will try out asap. It's not a historical fight, just a test, right?


Yep. Historical weapons/units/formations, but a generic scenario in one of the stock maps.

Will do some real maps/missions once the data is solid and everything plays well

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RE: 1942 test! - 7/1/2015 6:48:07 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: molotov_billy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Who said:

We aren't looking at a WW2 expansion of the series?

That some serious fighting took place in some of our current map locations?

That the system can't show infantry combat for WW2 at the current scale?

Good Hunting.

MR


I certainly didn't say any of that! The Flashpoint game engine is amazing, and I'm looking forward to anything you guys do with it.




We get bumps every so often about what we are or aren't doing. I just lumped all the questions into one place about what, where, when, why...and put out there that I would imagine before it crossed people's minds to ask us about it we have looked at it as a possibility to create for the series.

Not poking at your post specifically. Just making a comment in general.

What could very well happen is, that before we get there, a bunch of you modders may take the game series there on your own!

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/1/2015 7:51:01 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 29
RE: 1942 test! - 7/1/2015 9:02:38 PM   
kipanderson

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Hi,

Great scenario and WWII mod.. :).

Really is when played through to the end and you review the setup and units. .. This is the real deal..

Very professional.. :).

All the best,
Kip.



(in reply to Mad Russian)
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