RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final update… and a sequel!

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RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/8/2015 4:27:07 PM

Lobster

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Much if not most of TOAWIV is the 3.5(3.6) patch. So yes, the fact that the patch is now being presented as a whole new game is disappointing. Disappointing in that there MIGHT, emphasis on MIGHT, be a cost that a truly new game would garner. That Ralph will get some monetary compensation is nothing but good. He deserves it. No one who has been following this patch over the last few years can argue that. Another frustrating part is that, if Matrix had offered to pay Ralph in the first place this would have been done long ago. I think we all offered to pay for the patch at some point.

Now, someone mentioned haters. Define haters. Are disappointed people haters? People who have a point of view that differs from the accusers point of view? People who devote hundreds if not thousands of hours on the game, either playing it, editing it, designing scenarios? I would like to know exactly what the accuser thinks a hater is.

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Post #: 31

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/8/2015 4:33:05 PM

BigDuke66

Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline

The "myth" is clearly confirmed when looking at the list of fixes, alone the fixes to the RFC and AA obviously show how bad the state was before that alone made a bunch of scenarios work not like intended, not to mention all the other things that got fixed.
And as I said the hardcore stayed or will come back but what about the rest, I see how small the activity is on a wargame club that covers TOAWIII and there is no doubt that it was much better before the problems with the old patch got know to the community, it's simply a fact the the course of actions or rather the lack of actions damaged the community, we will see if it can rebuild on the Patch and maybe on the next title, this all is also nothing new as that was mentioned again and again in most of the past threads that asked about the patch & progress on this game.

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Post #: 32

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/8/2015 4:33:41 PM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

Much if not most of TOAWIV is the 3.5(3.6) patch. So yes, the fact that the patch is now being presented as a whole new game is disappointing. Disappointing in that there MIGHT, emphasis on MIGHT, be a cost that a truly new game would garner.

I think I know a little bit about how disappointed you all must feel. I'm all ears to a better delivery though.

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Post #: 33

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/8/2015 5:13:54 PM

Oberst_Klink

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

The "myth" is clearly confirmed when looking at the list of fixes, alone the fixes to the RFC and AA obviously show how bad the state was before that alone made a bunch of scenarios work not like intended, not to mention all the other things that got fixed.
And as I said the hardcore stayed or will come back but what about the rest, I see how small the activity is on a wargame club that covers TOAWIII and there is no doubt that it was much better before the problems with the old patch got know to the community, it's simply a fact the the course of actions or rather the lack of actions damaged the community, we will see if it can rebuild on the Patch and maybe on the next title, this all is also nothing new as that was mentioned again and again in most of the past threads that asked about the patch & progress on this game.

C'mon, last of the Wilds. Enjoy my contribution with CFant, Ammann and Pickett playing ye'ole Stevo's D21 as a gigantic RPG at the SI-Forum.

Besides, I might resume my work on Kharkov '43... for the patch. Just a tad disappointed I can't be on the TOAW IV team to deliver a 2.5km/hex half-day/turn version of it :/

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 34

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/8/2015 5:38:14 PM

Cmdr_Vessery

Posts: 268
Joined: 7/21/2007
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So, I gotta ask, does this version 3.4.1.9 fix the AA issue that was addressed with using the 3XBb mod? And, all games running under 3.4 won't work when starting up 3.4.1.9, or will they "convert"?

Looking forward to starting up a new TGW game, now that it's in the "Official" list of new scenarios.

Thanks,

-Vess

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Post #: 35

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/8/2015 7:57:01 PM

Lobster

Posts: 5104
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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

The "myth" is clearly confirmed when looking at the list of fixes, alone the fixes to the RFC and AA obviously show how bad the state was before that alone made a bunch of scenarios work not like intended, not to mention all the other things that got fixed.
And as I said the hardcore stayed or will come back but what about the rest, I see how small the activity is on a wargame club that covers TOAWIII and there is no doubt that it was much better before the problems with the old patch got know to the community, it's simply a fact the the course of actions or rather the lack of actions damaged the community, we will see if it can rebuild on the Patch and maybe on the next title, this all is also nothing new as that was mentioned again and again in most of the past threads that asked about the patch & progress on this game.

C'mon, last of the Wilds. Enjoy my contribution with CFant, Ammann and Pickett playing ye'ole Stevo's D21 as a gigantic RPG at the SI-Forum.

Besides, I might resume my work on Kharkov '43... for the patch. Just a tad disappointed I can't be on the TOAW IV team to deliver a 2.5km/hex half-day/turn version of it :/

Klink, Oberst

We'll all quit pouting after a while. Just takes a bit getting used to the new world order.

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Post #: 36

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/8/2015 8:56:32 PM

SMK-at-work

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
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Jeezzz.....I'm surprised people are actually griping about this...and a little disappointed....seems like "we" are an ungrateful bunch!

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Post #: 37

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/8/2015 10:39:24 PM

Lobster

Posts: 5104
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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Jeezzz.....I'm surprised people are actually griping about this...and a little disappointed....seems like "we" are an ungrateful bunch!

No one is ungrateful. There was a bait and switch, that's all. We have been told for years we were getting steak and then, bam, we get hot dogs. If people were told, for YEARS, they were getting something only to find out in the end they were not getting it how surprising could it be that they would be disappointed? I would wonder about those that were not even slightly disappointed that the promise was broken or about those that can't understand why some would be disappointed.

Some will turn their back on the game, some will get over it. Life goes on.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 7/8/2015 11:40:12 PM >

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Post #: 38

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/8/2015 11:36:57 PM

fogger

Posts: 1446
Joined: 9/17/2006
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Is the glass half full or is it half empty?

Lets look at the facts. We got 4 patches for free and if we had been charged US$10 per patch then we would have paid US$40 which appears to be the US price for a new game.

We know that what was originally planned as the update got to big and will now be used as the base for TOAW4. That means that Matrix are going to sell the game which means that they get cashflow from which they will be able to pay people (Ralph) to work on the new game. I believe Ralph has the same expensive habit that I have. It is called "eating".

Now Matrix is in business to make a profit and Christmas is a good time to market a new product. So they will be trying to have TOAW4 ready for Christmas. Having tested FITE2 which used "3.6" I believe that there is a good chance that we will have TOAW4 for Christmas.

My only "bitch" is that I could not prepay for TOAW4 when the A$1 was buying US1.12. Now one A$1 is purchasing US$0.75 and is dropping. The RBA wants the A$1 to be in the US$0.65 to US$0.70 range.

But it could be worse. I could live in New Zealand where "SMK-At-Work" lives. At present one A$1 is buying NZ$1.10 so I would hate to think what he will have to pay. So you can understand why my next holiday in September will be in New Zealand (North Island) and not in the USA.

Now as for the people who have dropped out. There is nothing stopping anybody who has read this post from contacting them and inviting them back to what is shortly to become the 2nd best game in the world. If TOAW4 is standing on the shoulders of TOAW3 then it will take the title of being the best game in the world.

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Post #: 39

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/8/2015 11:47:19 PM

Lobster

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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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I also have the eating habit. Unlike you I am no longer able to work and have very little wiggle room for anything other than meds, shelter and food. This is called life. So, excuse me if I'm a bit disappointed I didn't get what was promised. End of Story. Bye bye.

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Post #: 40

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 1:20:26 AM

Meyer1

Posts: 899
Joined: 2/9/2010
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Hey, I thought that we would never see the patch so I'm happy

< Message edited by Meyer1 -- 7/9/2015 2:22:13 AM >

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Post #: 41

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 1:33:04 AM

secadegas

Posts: 275
Joined: 5/16/2007
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quote:

Now, someone mentioned haters. Define haters.

I would but i'm not sure...

< Message edited by Sekadegas -- 7/9/2015 2:35:05 AM >

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Post #: 42

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 1:43:39 AM

secadegas

Posts: 275
Joined: 5/16/2007
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quote:

The "myth" is clearly confirmed when looking at the list of fixes, alone the fixes to the RFC and AA obviously show how bad the state was before that alone made a bunch of scenarios work not like intended, not to mention all the other things that got fixed.

Thanks. At last a big brain got it all...

What i'll do without your insights?

< Message edited by Sekadegas -- 7/9/2015 2:45:50 AM >

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Post #: 43

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 3:06:22 AM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
I also have the eating habit. Unlike you I am no longer able to work and have very little wiggle room for anything other than meds, shelter and food. This is called life. So, excuse me if I'm a bit disappointed I didn't get what was promised. End of Story. Bye bye.

Hey Lobster: I'm sorry you can't work anymore. You didn't say how old you were but I get the impression you'd like to work but can't.
And you didn't say where you live but I'm hoping it's one of the southern states where it's cheaper to live.

I say we take up a collection for Lobster.

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Post #: 44

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 3:32:42 AM

BigDuke66

Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline

@Lobster
The Steak & Hot Dog comparison fit very well.

@Sekadegas
Embroider my insights on a pillow so that you never forget it.

@Oberst_Klink
I do Oberst I do, would be nice to see you working again on Kharkov '43.

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Post #: 45

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 3:58:22 AM

SMK-at-work

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

@Lobster
The Steak & Hot Dog comparison fit very well.

It is silly.

it's mote like being promised steak and mushrooms for free and getting steak egg and chips for free......you're still getting the steak and it's still free!

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Post #: 46

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 3:59:46 AM

SMK-at-work

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fogger

My only "bitch" is that I could not prepay for TOAW4 when the A$1 was buying US1.12. Now one A$1 is purchasing US$0.75 and is dropping. The RBA wants the A$1 to be in the US$0.65 to US$0.70 range.

But it could be worse. I could live in New Zealand where "SMK-At-Work" lives. At present one A$1 is buying NZ$1.10 so I would hate to think what he will have to pay. So you can understand why my next holiday in September will be in New Zealand (North Island) and not in the USA.

which is what it has been doing for most of the last 10 years, so there's not really anything different here! :)

but even with that US$40 isn't actually expensive!

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Post #: 47

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 7:05:26 AM

fogger

Posts: 1446
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What is US$40 in New Zealand dollars? That is assuming that Matrix will be selling the game for US$40.

Back in 2011 when I purchased WITE it cost me A$86.51 for a game that I only played twice before I came back to TOAW.

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Post #: 48

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 7:29:59 AM

fogger

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Joined: 9/17/2006
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Hi Lobster,
May I call you Jack. My post was not aimed at you either directly or indirectly and I am sorry you feel that way.

Just to give some of my background. I was recently forced into early retirement.

Yes I plan to go to New Zealand for a holiday but then what my wife has had to put up with during the pass 20 years in my previous job I think she has earned it. I had to sign some undertakings when I left so I can not say anymore than that. (Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200 as they say in a game of monopoly.)

I also had a heart operation a couple of years ago so I understand about the costs of meds. After the operation the doctor also told me that the repair was good for 10-12 years and to keep my personal affairs up to date. But then we all have an appointment with the grim reaper. I just hope to win a PBEM game of FITE before then.

For me the glass is half full.

Matrix did not have to do the update. They could have said that it was too hard and that they were going directly to TOAW4 instead. Or they could say the TOAW community is too small and not do TOAW 4 at all. After all what have they got out of the update? What has Ralph got? What have we got? Something is better than nothing.

Kind Regards
John

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Post #: 49

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 9:35:46 AM

Crossroads

Posts: 17372
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Woo-hoo! Thanks guys !!!

Downloading the patch, and putting some hard earned Euros aside for some serious TOAWIV Xmas shopping.

The latter of course only if I see a commitment from schwere Panzerjäger-Abteilung 653 to bring his Third Reich and Lützen scenarios there

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Post #: 50

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 9:59:08 AM

berto

Posts: 20708
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TOAW IV is fantastic news. I'll take it any way, shape or form, at whatever reasonable cost. You can't expect something for nothing.

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Post #: 51

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 2:18:52 PM

secadegas

Posts: 275
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

(...) and putting some hard earned Euros aside for some serious TOAWIV Xmas shopping.

Me too.

That is... if by Xmas we can still pay for it with Euro...

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Post #: 52

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 3:05:20 PM

Crossroads

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sekadegas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

(...) and putting some hard earned Euros aside for some serious TOAWIV Xmas shopping.

Me too.

That is... if by Xmas we can still pay for it with Euro...

Hmmm...

Is there a pre-order?

Not sure if I should be laughing though...

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Post #: 53

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 3:38:19 PM

secadegas

Posts: 275
Joined: 5/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sekadegas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

(...) and putting some hard earned Euros aside for some serious TOAWIV Xmas shopping.

Me too.

That is... if by Xmas we can still pay for it with Euro...

Hmmm... Is there a pre-order?

Not sure if I should be laughing though...

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Post #: 54

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/9/2015 9:52:45 PM

76mm

Posts: 4688
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hmm, I guess this is good news, but I've already bought this game probably three times in its various iterations and I doubt I'll buy it again unless I see some definite improvements.

So what other than the patch are we getting? Personally I've always hated the user interface for TOAW, so hopefully it got some love for version IV. How far are we from seeing some screen shots?

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Post #: 55

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/10/2015 12:25:49 AM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

Personally I've always hated the user interface for TOAW

HATER !! ... just kidding. I've been using it for so long I don't even think about it, so I am curious if you could be more specific, give some examples, maybe some ideas that could make it better ? Thanks.

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Post #: 56

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/10/2015 3:53:34 AM

Meyer1

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Well, off the top of my head, some easy improvements to the current interface:
-a hotkey to select next formation
-I would use the tool tip if there were a key to activate/deactivate. Currently is very annoying

More complicate:
-a "supply mode" for the map, which would be handy to see how supply flows and to detect destroyed bridges/rail lines
-A possibility to assign keys to highlight "user made formations" with a given colour, to allow the player to modify the OOB, even if that has no effect in the gameplay. As explained here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2849586
-OOB screen should be vastly improve, allowing to sort units according type/strength/special abilities/etc. I think this is already in the plans, right?

That's all I can think right now.

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Post #: 57

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/10/2015 4:03:05 AM

Meyer1

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Also:
-A unit panel on the side, showing the selected unit info, but all of it, as one have using the "u" key.
-A "full screen" mode for the map, and/or the chance to "minimize" different panels of the rest of the interface
-A full screen mode for the game, alongside the windowed mode as we have now.

< Message edited by Meyer1 -- 7/10/2015 5:03:49 AM >

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Post #: 58

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/10/2015 4:40:45 AM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
I've been using it for so long I don't even think about it, so I am curious if you could be more specific, give some examples, maybe some ideas that could make it better ?

Honestly, its been long enough that I've played where I can't remember too many specifics, all I remember is that I was always struggling with it. The worst was the scenario editor--just about everything about selecting and creating unit hierarchies was a huge pain, especially having to cycle through everything rather than having drop-down boxes or standard windows interfaces (which might not be great, but are generally functional).

If you're not asking out of idle curiousity but might actually use input to revise the interface (not sure if you're on the beta or dev team), I'd be willing to fire up the game again to give more specific feedback.

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Post #: 59

RE: The Operational Art of War III receives a final upd... - 7/10/2015 6:16:38 AM

biddrafter2

Posts: 63
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
People who devote hundreds if not thousands of hours on the game, either playing it, editing it, designing scenarios? I would like to know exactly what the accuser thinks a hater is.

Here is why I think people are having trouble feeling sympathetic. Let's say the new game costs something crazy, like $100. $100/2000 hours = 5 cents for each hour of gameplay. Even if it was a bait and switch (it wasn't, not really) it is hard to get worked up over something that delivers such enjoyment for so little hourly cost.

I'm quite pleased at this news!

A question for the testers: I'm in a hotseat American Civil War game right now. Any ideas if the patch will cause any problems with the non standard equipment or anything like that? We are only 150 moves into 400 or so....

(in reply to Lobster)

Post #: 60

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