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No more campaigns - 4/15/2001 11:58:00 AM   
Flashfyre

 

Posts: 330
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: Waynesboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I don't usually "vent" here, but this time I must. Second battle of a US long campaign. Meeting Engagement vs Italians. Pure desert....no towns, coastline, roads, trees.....nothing but sand and hills. And one small stream. My forces (2 Combat Groups, a mech infantry company, 2 platoons of engineers, and 2 Cavalry Recon platoons) have advanced and taken 2 of the 3 middle VH clusters, while meeting only masses of Italian motor infantry. By Turn 3, I have the high ground, overlooking a valley and ridge full of Italians, and have pinned most of the enemy. :D Light casualties on my side encourage me to deploy the mech infantry on the forward slope, with the tanks on the ridgetop. Recon elements also mixed with these defenses. Two-thirds of my force is now deployed along this center ridge, the remaing artillery and HQ units guarding the rear VH cluster. End of my Turn 3, and all hell breaks loose. Italian bombardment begins....100/105mm battery drops on the troops along the slope. No casualties. Then.....305mm Naval Guns. Not one...not two....not three. :eek: No. Eleven. Eleven batteries of 305mm Death-From-Above, I-Want-My-Momma, Armageddon-In-A-Box artillery. :eek: :eek: What is this? :confused: We aren't anywhere near the coast. End result: 2 turns of this shelling and an entire mech infantry company (10 squads, 3 HMGs, 3 ATGs, 5 halftracks), 3 Shermans, 2 Lees, 5 Jeeps, 6 Recon Patrols, 3 Greyhounds, and the mascot (Skippy the dog) are destroyed. 2 Shermans, a Lee, and 4 halftracks immobilized, one Lee with Main Gun KO'd, and one Greyhound with no Radio Mast. And what units survived are in a state of panicked rout. :mad: :mad: In disgust, I surrendered......and found out I had a 6-1 ratio in points. :rolleyes: So...no more computer-generated campaigns for me. I'll stick the ones like Heroes or Utah-Rhine, where some modicum of intelligent thought has gone into the opposing force make-up. I mean, come on.....the Italians had 11 motor infantry companies (each with it's own 305mm gun battery), 8 tanks, and some AA and mortar squads. What crap.......

_____________________________

The Motor Pool http://www.geocities.com/aurion_eq/index.html?976419304550 [email]kmcferren@onemain.com[/email]
Post #: 1
- 4/15/2001 3:53:00 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello... I share your frustration. The same thing happened to me. The problem is that the OOB files have been changed quite a bit and the formations that the computer opponent can buy are out of whack. Well, no more. We fixed it. We reprogrammed all the allowable formations for the computer opponent based on the latest set of OOBs. So, with version 5.0, the problem will occur no longer. Looking towards better battles... Michael Wood ____________________________________________
quote:

Originally posted by Flashfyre: I don't usually "vent" here, but this time I must. Second battle of a US long campaign. Meeting Engagement vs Italians. Pure desert....no towns, coastline, roads, trees.....nothing but sand and hills. And one small stream. My forces (2 Combat Groups, a mech infantry company, 2 platoons of engineers, and 2 Cavalry Recon platoons) have advanced and taken 2 of the 3 middle VH clusters, while meeting only masses of Italian motor infantry. By Turn 3, I have the high ground, overlooking a valley and ridge full of Italians, and have pinned most of the enemy. :D Light casualties on my side encourage me to deploy the mech infantry on the forward slope, with the tanks on the ridgetop. Recon elements also mixed with these defenses. Two-thirds of my force is now deployed along this center ridge, the remaing artillery and HQ units guarding the rear VH cluster. End of my Turn 3, and all hell breaks loose. Italian bombardment begins....100/105mm battery drops on the troops along the slope. No casualties. Then.....305mm Naval Guns. Not one...not two....not three. :eek: No. Eleven. Eleven batteries of 305mm Death-From-Above, I-Want-My-Momma, Armageddon-In-A-Box artillery. :eek: :eek: What is this? :confused: We aren't anywhere near the coast. End result: 2 turns of this shelling and an entire mech infantry company (10 squads, 3 HMGs, 3 ATGs, 5 halftracks), 3 Shermans, 2 Lees, 5 Jeeps, 6 Recon Patrols, 3 Greyhounds, and the mascot (Skippy the dog) are destroyed. 2 Shermans, a Lee, and 4 halftracks immobilized, one Lee with Main Gun KO'd, and one Greyhound with no Radio Mast. And what units survived are in a state of panicked rout. :mad: :mad: In disgust, I surrendered......and found out I had a 6-1 ratio in points. :rolleyes: So...no more computer-generated campaigns for me. I'll stick the ones like Heroes or Utah-Rhine, where some modicum of intelligent thought has gone into the opposing force make-up. I mean, come on.....the Italians had 11 motor infantry companies (each with it's own 305mm gun battery), 8 tanks, and some AA and mortar squads. What crap.......


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(in reply to Flashfyre)
Post #: 2
- 4/15/2001 9:57:00 PM   
A_B

 

Posts: 296
Joined: 4/11/2001
From: San Jose, CA
Status: offline 		I've been posting on this for a couple days now. Even with improved OOB's, the AI deployment will still be silly. The maps and victory locations are ok sometimes, as silly the rest. I'm not saying this to be critical of the programming. The AI hasn't been invented yet that can provide a decent opponent in a game with as many variables as SPWaW. A solution i came up with was to have a 'campaign partner'set up the enemy for you. This wasn't an original idea, of course, i've gotten messages from a few people explaining how to do it right, ie; avoiding problemsn with modified oob's etc. Anyway, i'm still available to set up your opponenets for you - make sure the map is reasonable (a generated one, or occasionally a pre-made one), purchase enemy forces, and place victory hexes in reasonable areas (on the hill overlooking the crossroads, instead of the middle of a forest at the edge of the map). All i ask is you return the favor. this isn't intended to be a time consuming setup like the other (excellent) premade campaingns. Instead, it is a reasonable long campaign. Also, by publishing the results, there'll be a much larger pool of campaign, which would be nice for people new to SPWaW, and for people whom, like myself, prefer campaigns to pbem or online games.

_____________________________

Unconventional war requires unconventional thought

(in reply to Flashfyre)
Post #: 3
- 4/15/2001 9:59:00 PM   
A_B

 

Posts: 296
Joined: 4/11/2001
From: San Jose, CA
Status: offline 		PS, i'm not waiting for version 5.0, i've put my gaming life on hold for 4 weeks already. I figure as soon as i'm into a 4.5 campaign i'm really enjoying, then 5.0 will be released :)

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Unconventional war requires unconventional thought

(in reply to Flashfyre)
Post #: 4
- 4/19/2001 12:21:00 AM   
jkrissw

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 4/17/2001
From: Lemon Grove, CA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Flashfyre: .... Italian bombardment begins....100/105mm battery drops on the troops along the slope. No casualties. Then.....305mm Naval Guns. Not one...not two....not three. :eek: No. Eleven. Eleven batteries of 305mm Death-From-Above, I-Want-My-Momma, Armageddon-In-A-Box artillery. :eek: ....
What's the matter? Never heard of railroad artillery? :D

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Livin' la vida meshuggah,
Kriss

(in reply to Flashfyre)
Post #: 5
- 4/19/2001 12:41:00 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Kriss White: What's the matter? Never heard of railroad artillery? :D
Italians in the desert didn't have anything like rail based guns. Remeber Rommel deployed his Italians very close to the coast road since they didn't have the transport to carry their supplies out into the desert. So in fact if you are facing Italians chances are it would be right by the coast. I just don't think the Italians committed their battleships to bombardment in this fashion. I faced the same pulverizing from the Italians in my British campaign. The trick is to never sit still, let the shells fall where you used to be, and break the Italians as fast as you can, becuase they call in those guns every turn, just to wear you down. Fighting against those 305's seemed to me to be the closest I have seen the ai come to using the artillery to cause the 50% historical casualties that artillery did in WWII. Normally I can spread out enough to render 150mm guns ineffective in hitting more than 1 unit per tube firing. It was against one of these 305 backed Italian forces that I had my only game less than a draw. Without the 305's the Italians would be a pushover to any sort of competant player. As it is now, playing v4.3b I consider the Italians a tougher opponent than the Germans, with the Germans I can counter just about everything the ai can do with them. The 305's don't have a weakness to exploit. thanks, John.

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(in reply to Flashfyre)
Post #: 6
- 4/19/2001 2:50:00 AM   
skukko


Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		To all of you who love to play campaign: In Fifth elements AI's purchase routine is re-written. It is not as good as it is with human, but it is ...and add to this redone routines for AI's strategic behavior which is making me ... and sure you can edit your own saves, but not much have to be done :eek: Am I leaking again? I'll have to go to doctor...who shot a hole on me, David, is that you... :D

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salute

mosh

If its not rotten, shoot again

(in reply to Flashfyre)
Post #: 7
- 4/19/2001 3:03:00 AM   
Antonius

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 6/6/2000
From: Saint Arnoult en Yvelines FRANCE
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by skukko: To all of you who love to play campaign: In Fifth elements AI's purchase routine is re-written. It is not as good as it is with human, but it is ...and add to this redone routines for AI's strategic behavior which is making me ... and sure you can edit your own saves, but not much have to be done :eek: Am I leaking again? I'll have to go to doctor...who shot a hole on me, David, is that you... :D
Stukko, please don't leak too much, I'd like to find out my-self how 5.0 AI behaves :)

_____________________________

Wargamo, ergo sum

(in reply to Flashfyre)
Post #: 8
- 4/19/2001 5:40:00 AM   
Greg McCarty

 

Posts: 234
Joined: 6/15/2000
From: woodbury,mn,usa
Status: offline 		... I faced the same pulverizing from the Italians in my British campaign. The trick is to never sit still, let the shells fall where you used to be, and break the Italians as fast as you can, becuase they call in those guns every turn, just to wear you down. Yeah, its breathtaking, isn't it? I ran into this early on during a Russian campaign. I knew it wasn't quite right from the onset since the Italians were not widely known to use heavy artillery THAT effectively. But on the other hand, it taught me good discipline which I learned quickly: You do NOT prance around in full view of Italian spotters with a large force in this game. Which of course teaches you by logical deduction that you should not do it in front of ANY worthy opponent in this game. You can get just a bit too comfortable anticipating AI behavior, but the Italians will pull you up short. If you suspect the opponent has heavy guns, keep moving --ALWAYS. :D

_____________________________

Greg.

It is better to die on your feet
than to live on your knees.

--Zapata

(in reply to Flashfyre)
Post #: 9
- 4/19/2001 8:36:00 AM   
BlitzSS

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: wasChicagoLand, now DC
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by A_B: I figure as soon as i'm into a 4.5 campaign i'm really enjoying, then 5.0 will be released :)
Good now I know it's releasing just like it rains after I wash the car.

_____________________________

"Nuts"

(in reply to Flashfyre)
Post #: 10
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