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ground combat - 8/17/2015 2:05:38 PM

ancient doctor

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Joined: 9/21/2004
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A couple of questions from an old time newbee

Is there a primer for land combat available?
I do remember some player claiming that lots of the talk that regiments are bad divisions are good has no real value,could someone offer his/her insights?
Is there a fast way of editing senario info like leaders for example other than the editor?An excel variant maybe?
Any AARs that involve invasion of USSR?

Thanks.

Post #: 1

RE: ground combat - 8/17/2015 7:20:34 PM

Yaab

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From: Poland
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As for the invasion of USSR, here is the classic AAR by Seydlitz, started in 2009, using the very first version of the WITP:AE. Oh, the memories of reading this all!
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2228497

(in reply to ancient doctor)

Post #: 2

RE: ground combat - 8/17/2015 10:12:55 PM

wdolson

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Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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All units in a stack get a shot at all other units in the opposing stack during combat. As the shot count goes up, the units lower in the stack get fewer hits than the ones at the top. The top unit in a stack usually takes the brunt. For combat between large stacks, this favors larger units. A division or corps sized unit can absorb the punishment without being destroyed, whereas a smaller unit might be completely destroyed. A regiment sized unit can still survive a big stack fight, but they might be rendered useless faster.

Smaller units do have usefulness though. They can be used to capture lightly defended or undefended bases, they can be used for flanking maneuvers, and they can garrison. Flanking only works where units have room to maneuver, which is only Asia in most games, but if you can cut off supply to an enemy stack, they will be easier to destroy and much more costly to the enemy than forcing a retreat. If you're cutting off a flank where enemy combat to open the cordon is unlikely, you can use any unit to block supply, even an HQ or a tiny combat unit. A good player will usually use all the AV they can one way or another.

Bill

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(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 3

RE: ground combat - 8/17/2015 11:16:14 PM

Gregg

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Joined: 7/26/2004
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From my experience of only one solo game, the Russians just do not die.
I did invade Russia in early 1944 (hit them before they could hit me).
This was against the AI, so do not expect this to happen against a real opponent.
I had taken all of China and most of India, so I had the ground and air combat units to really mass on the Russian border.
I hit hard and it was fairly easy going in most areas, but very tough in other areas.
In the end, I had almost all of on map Russia by the summer of 1945.
The problem was two surrounded mega stacks of the AI directed Russian Invasion of China ground combat units, caught out in the open in forest hexes, totally surrounded and cut off from any supply.
After 9 months of bombing and artillery blasting them with a even larger stack of Japanese ground units, the Russian units would just not die or surrender.
Every once in a while I would finally totally destroy a Russian unit.
I switched sides often to look during the siege.
The Russians were totally out of supply for well over six months (though the winter!), had mid to upper 90's for disruption and 10's & 20's for moral, but they just would not die.
I just lost interest and quit that game.
Gregg

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 4

RE: ground combat - 8/18/2015 2:05:23 AM

crsutton

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Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ancient seaman

A couple of questions from an old time newbee

Is there a primer for land combat available?
I do remember some player claiming that lots of the talk that regiments are bad divisions are good has no real value,could someone offer his/her insights?
Is there a fast way of editing senario info like leaders for example other than the editor?An excel variant maybe?
Any AARs that involve invasion of USSR?

Thanks.

Divisions are usually much better than their component regiments as they might have additional heavy support weapons that the smaller unit will not. As a rule, divisions are much less brittle. Yes, I would keep my units together in a division if they were in the same hex. Three regiments will take replacements faster than a division though. So, there are times when you want to break them down.

The problem with invading Russia vs a human opponent is that despite your successes you are operating an additional massive theater and thus burning supply and resources at a pace that is not sustainable. So, if you do not take Russia out fairly fast (impossible?), you are going to pay the piper later in the campaign when you run low on important things. Historically, Japan barely had the resources to sustain the campaigns that they actually did. A full scale campaign in India, Australia or Russia was just beyond the capability of the Japanese economy. The game gives you a little more flexibility but actually does a pretty good job of reflecting the limitations of Japan's economy. As far as I can recall, the few invasions of Russia ended with the Japanese player eventually giving up the game. It is sort of like auto victory. If the Japanese player shoots for it and fails, they generally surrender or disappear as their bolt is usually shot.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 8/18/2015 3:15:01 AM >

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Post #: 5

RE: ground combat - 8/18/2015 10:15:55 AM

geofflambert

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From: St. Louis
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The British had brigades, which were like regimental sized divisions and self supporting. The Germans had kampfgruppen which were similarly self supporting. The Americans (in the ETO) had ad hoc combat commands which would be supported as needed by the division depending on the circumstances and mission. I wouldn't be very pleased about encountering a US regiment though. Also, the British, no matter what size, never had enough engineers, but often had a surplus of armoured vehicles, mediocre as they might be.

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Post #: 6

RE: ground combat - 8/18/2015 12:50:40 PM

Alfred

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There are no player developed editors for modifying scenario data. Nor should one ever expect one to be developed as the official "editor" which is shipped with the game is very powerful and thorough.

The very few things which cannot be handled solely by the official "editor" rely upon special embedded hooks in the game code put in for the devs to access, IIRC via .csv files.

Alfred

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 7

RE: ground combat - 8/19/2015 2:00:21 PM

ancient doctor

Posts: 152
Joined: 9/21/2004
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Thank you all for your answers.

Here is the problem.I plan to make my mode where IJA will have brigade size units of about 240-250 AV.Since i am a solo player but havent managed so far to reach 1943 or more the question is:will the AI use megastack formations or rather try to cover a front with less units per hex?Because from what i have seen in AAR(mostly PBEM) against large stacks of units smaller than division formations seem to have no chance.

Alfred or anyone could you please explain the csv-editor story?Going to every
IJA and IJN leader by the editor is very time consuming,kind of counter productive unlike an excel file that can be modified fast and easy.

BTW pity that the AAR from Seydlitz ended up without reaching the end.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 8

RE: ground combat - 8/19/2015 2:49:40 PM

HansBolter

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From: United States
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I'm currently playing a mod (Focus Pacific) that has Russia active from day one.

I'm playing the Allies in a solo game and I can attest that the Russians do indeed die.

If you are playing on the Hard difficulty setting the AI side will not be affected by lack of supplies the way they will on Historical setting.

While the AI does have a tendency to use death star stacks, especially in China, it will react to your spreading of units, by doing the same to a degree.

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Hans

(in reply to ancient doctor)

Post #: 9