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RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury

 
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RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/23/2017 5:55:40 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The clarity provided in a thread on the matter recently is that they do react but will never actually attack as part of that reaction. The game engine made it difficult to implement, and programmer time ran out.


So the TF might react in one phase, and attack in another phase or even the next day -- that is if they stay in the proper hex?


The two (reaction and later attack) being unrelated except for the benefit of the reaction putting the ASW TF in a more favorable hex for later action - makes sense to me.

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RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/23/2017 6:53:23 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Dec 1, 1943

Well, a blunder today. I got an email from Jocke earlier that the file I sent last night wasn't good. I worked on the turn over two computers yesterday, and quickly sent him what I thought was the correct file, only to find out when we ran the turn, it was missing about 50 orders...including 150 plane CAP for my fast transports at Kavieng.

Well, with no LRCAP, we lost quite a lot. Including a troop loaded AP that went blundering about on her own near the home islands.

Sigh.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/23/2017 6:57:47 PM >

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RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/23/2017 8:05:01 PM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

On Your question about #8 I was getting higher dls



With the same skills and number of planes searching over a sufficiently large sample size?

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Post #: 3663
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/24/2017 2:58:10 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		No turn from Jocke till tomorrow or even later.

I did some more testing of double bombardments:

I was able to routinely get double bombardments from destroyer and cruisers only TF out to range 6 with the remain on station order.

I was unable to get slow battleships to double bombard even starting at range 0.

I even had some task forces stay in bombardment mode after the 2nd bombardment and they would have bombarded a third time.

I continue to be amazed at how poor even 70 skill naval search pilots are at detecting submarines thru the Naval Search. It does happens, but oh the holes!

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Post #: 3664
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/24/2017 2:59:03 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

On Your question about #8 I was getting higher dls



With the same skills and number of planes searching over a sufficiently large sample size?


Yeah, size 36 squadrons skill 50ish. N about 15.

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Post #: 3665
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/24/2017 3:10:19 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

On Your question about #8 I was getting higher dls



With the same skills and number of planes searching over a sufficiently large sample size?


Yeah, size 36 squadrons skill 50ish. N about 15.



Odd. I'm still inclined to think it's a fluke, but maybe not.

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Post #: 3666
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/24/2017 3:17:00 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

On Your question about #8 I was getting higher dls



With the same skills and number of planes searching over a sufficiently large sample size?


Yeah, size 36 squadrons skill 50ish. N about 15.



Odd. I'm still inclined to think it's a fluke, but maybe not.


Very well could be...for example say a high inspiration leader? Didn't even look at the them.

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Post #: 3667
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/24/2017 5:31:43 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

On Your question about #8 I was getting higher dls



With the same skills and number of planes searching over a sufficiently large sample size?


Yeah, size 36 squadrons skill 50ish. N about 15.



Odd. I'm still inclined to think it's a fluke, but maybe not.


Very well could be...for example say a high inspiration leader? Didn't even look at the them.



I'm thinking more just random chance.

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Post #: 3668
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/25/2017 2:52:45 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Jocke offered me a redo on the last turn, so I could put in my missing 50 orders...and I refused. This is war, and the orders were lost in transit, and Jocke was in position to capitalize. He has the turn, and I will most likely see a turn from him tomorrow or Saturday at the latest.

It could be bad, as I attempt to fast transport troops off of New Britain. As least the fighters are flying LRCAP over the TF...but it still has to avoid a surface engagement and get away from Rabaul. Looking to rescue about 5000 men...and fast transports are somewhat unreliable. Also, I never picked up troops from a non base hex before.

Cross your fingers.

On the good news front the A6M8 starts production. Different engine, and 2 250 pound bombs...looking forward to using her. Another fighter I didn't get a chance to use against Tiemanj (Frank R being the other).

What is next to look for: Ki100, Judy 3, Grace , Nick D, Irving Sa, are all nearing production...along with the Sen Baku.


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Post #: 3669
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/25/2017 4:41:14 PM   
Lowpe


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Clash of the super sized task fores!

Between Manus and New Britain!




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/25/2017 5:30:03 PM >

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Post #: 3670
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/25/2017 4:48:35 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Carnage in the Air!




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Post #: 3671
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/25/2017 5:01:09 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Butchers Bill in the air!

Today will come the Thunderbolts...and most likely the bombers.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/25/2017 5:34:19 PM >

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Post #: 3672
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/25/2017 5:07:47 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Fast Transport mode, with low threat threshold, means a minimal slugfest. Aoba has 21 system damge...

Disappointed to see the encounter happened at Manus, as the task force had orders to load some of the troops on New Britain in a non-base hex. Means the TF just sat in Manus and never left. I guess I can't rescue them by ship until they make a base.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Manus at 101,119, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Atago
CA Maya
CA Aoba, Shell hits 6
CL Noshiro
DD Akizuki
DD Tamanami
DD Suzunami, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Fujinami
DD Urakaze
DD Shiratsuyu
DD Samidare, Shell hits 1
DD Kawakaze
DD Hatsushima
DD Ariake
DD Ayanami
DD Minazuki
DD Matsukaze, Shell hits 1
APD Minekaze
APD Yakaze
DD Uruyuke, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CL Boise
CL Denver, Shell hits 1
CL Montpelier, Shell hits 1
CL Mobile, Shell hits 1
DD Abbot
DD Ammen
DD Aulick
DD Beale, Shell hits 1
DD Bennett, Shell hits 1
DD Chevalier
DD Conway
DD DeHaven
DD Bailey
DD Conyngham, Shell hits 1

Reduced sighting due to 21% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 21% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 28,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 28,000 yards
Range closes to 26,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 26,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 26,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...


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Post #: 3673
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/25/2017 5:29:33 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		All my rescue ships...can't rescue!




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Post #: 3674
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/25/2017 5:29:44 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
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Status: offline 		Kind of ironic with all those ships on both sides, and none of them ended up damaged very much. The fans are disappointed!

I guess Jocke is OK using the Hellcats like that since the pools are deep.

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Post #: 3675
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/25/2017 5:43:35 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		My fairly standard low CAP, Allies standard sweep at max altitude by HR.

Of interest I think is the altitude bands that the defenders are flying to.

Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 19 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 19
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 30
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 9
Ki-84a Frank x 25
Ki-84r Frank x 39

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 10 destroyed

CAP engaged:
381 Ku S-1 with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 11 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 23000 and 32640.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
1st Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 23 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
54th Sentai with Ki-43-IV Oscar (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 18 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 4000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 33600.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
73rd Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 17 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
246th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 30000 and 32540.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 3676
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/26/2017 1:55:59 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Started the final two conversions to float plane hybrid battleships. That means four battleships are currently undergoing the conversion.

A raft of other warships have started their Dec upgrades.

Another testimony to low, layered CAP, as Magwe extracts their pound of flesh. Allies are horrendously strong in the air, a byproduct of the West Coast invasion. Well over 1,000 Fighters in theater for the Allies, and that is just on the front lines.






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Post #: 3677
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/26/2017 2:10:56 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		First squadron converts to A6M8. Most will be in the New Guinea area first, KB second, there everywhere else last.

Messed up, my Frank B factory upgrades to Frank R, and produced a plane. I think that is the 2nd time I have pulled that boneheaded mistake...and another reason why playing Japan can really punish you quite quickly. R&D planes need to be set to production off. Then at least you have a day to fix your mistake.

Pulling the fighters back out of Magwe, about 20 damaged on the ground. It is not about protecting the oil anymore there, but rather attriting the humongous Allied fighter strength. I don't have enough size 5 runways in Indochina (but I am getting there) as they eliminate the morale loss from malaria (or greatly reduce it).

Allies are very cautious with their best fighters, often sweeping first with lesser but plentiful planes and saving the better planes (or more fragile like P38) for later days. A good tactic.

Moving a lot of AA to the oil in the SRA...it will hang there till June of 44 pretty much when it will start to make an exodus back. Maybe sooner depending upon game circumstances.

I need more Jacks and Georges, but won't get them for a long time. 1 squadron of George in Indochina, the other is making its way to New Guinea area. Did upgrade a third squadron to Ki61d.

My top of the line fighters look like this:

6.5 Sentai of Frank
2 Sentai of George
1 Sentai of Jack
3 Sentai of Ki61d Tony
1 Sentai of A6M8
4 Sentai of Oscar IV or thereabouts

And that is it, everything is lesser planes, I am even still flying A6M2...The air war in PDU off is quite challenging. The bombers and their effectiveness isn't really changed that much...not much of an effective difference between a Sally and Helen. Light Bombers are still pretty effective as trainers, ASW, Chinese clean up.

I am really taking pains to have only 70 defense pilots flying on the front lines.




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Post #: 3678
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/26/2017 2:30:05 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Further thoughts on the low layered CAP. Next month the Allies will get even higher sweeps, and I can't compete with that at all.

I think perhaps the strongest makeup of planes is the Frank R flying high cap (9K & 7K) and George flying low CAP (4K)

You only need one George squadron per base, and at least 2 Frank squadrons. Anything less will normally get eaten up alive by sweeps except for unexpected CAP traps.

The bloom is off the rose for me and Tony. She is great bomber killer, but what a flying brick down low. Much prefer the more fragile Oscar IV. Tony has become for me deep defense, strafing, and anti Carrier cap traps (important roles no doubt)...you really need to avoid being swept with them. That will change a bit, but not much, when the KI100 arrives. The plane just can't dance.

I think perhaps most JFBs in a pdu off game are perhaps better served by skipping the Tony line all together, and putting those r&d facilities into the Grace. Skimp a little on Jill and Judy and really get the Grace early and in big numbers as long as you don't sacrifice your Frank and Sam r&d. Or a fantasy fighter.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/26/2017 2:32:14 PM >

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Post #: 3679
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/26/2017 2:44:03 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		December 1943 Economy...

humming once again! You can see the uptick in supplies, the long, horrible, depressing, mind numbing experience of losing 20 divisions is finally done. It really flat lined my supply growth.

Oil is diminishing and fuel strong. Resources are good, but man I still need to get tons back to hungry Honshu.




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RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/26/2017 2:49:07 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Production

No pools effectively of Naval or Merchant, so no worries there.

I might look at saving some HI, and Vehicles...we shall see what it looks like after a while of no huge replacement costs.




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Post #: 3681
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/26/2017 3:05:59 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Upcoming Planes Feb of 44 or sooner (except for Sam):

Sen Baku...I will make this plane, as one squadron cannot go higher than the A6M5c. I will use it to train pilots strafing Chinese and anybody else I can get away with. I don't expect much, and if the squadron doesn't withdraw it might become a kamikaze squadron. Again, no expectations of success.

N1K2 George...yay. So few squadrons though.

Irving Sa...yay, but so few squadrons..like 1 for now.

D4Y3 Judy...okay...good plane. I want Grace.

Nick D NF....desperately needed.

Judy C recon...a good plane

Paul...one squadron. Will play with them. Flavorful.

Lorna...1-2 squadrons. ASW plane. Not upgrading and using Nells is the wise course, but I like Lorna.

Ki100 Tony. In a pdu off game about 4 squadrons. Ki100 II adds another 3-4 squadrons. In use for the rest of the game.

Sam...maybe June of 44. Need her sooner. Mistake not to put more into her at Dec 7, 1941.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/26/2017 3:07:40 PM >

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Post #: 3682
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/27/2017 11:40:57 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Daily attacks and strafing have finally forced the 77th Long Range Patrol Battalion to surrender. Those ragged, starving, bearded men spent half three months in the jungle in a misguided attempt to rescue the 6th Australian and 32nd American Division.

Instead, their valor only sealed their doom! Now they are off to make a railroad bridge for Japan somewhere!




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Post #: 3683
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/27/2017 12:04:03 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Instead, their valor only sealed their doom! Now they are off to make a railroad bridge for Japan somewhere!

In this game all those POWs and Koreans are damn slackers, not building a single new road ever =)

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Post #: 3684
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/27/2017 2:47:55 PM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		6.5 Sentai of Frank? Half a sentai?

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Post #: 3685
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/27/2017 9:41:20 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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From: Germany
Status: offline 		Congrats on you victory at Midway.
I can only recomend the book Shattered Star. It deals in detail with some myths about that battle like that delayed float plane and such.

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Post #: 3686
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/27/2017 10:17:22 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Sam...maybe June of 44. Need her sooner. Mistake not to put more into her at Dec 7, 1941.

I agree, hard to put too much into the A7M in terms of RnD. PDU on or OFF, almost all IJN fighter groups will upgrade to it and it is the best all around plane the IJN gets.

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Post #: 3687
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/28/2017 3:23:07 AM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Pardon me for chiming in briefly, but I've had ASW TFs react many times to subs - they don't always do it, but often enough that I think it works and is probably mostly dependent on TF commander aggression rating and a role of the dice.

One time not too long ago, I had all my carriers set to follow an ASW TF that had an aggressive commander. The dang ASW TF reacted to enemy subs and all my other TFs followed merrily along! It was a crazy departure that could've gotten me into a lot of trouble.


Lots of people have, I am just having problem recreating it. Sigh. I am wondering if experience of the crew isn't a very important consideration.



I notice that this is hardly happening for me in my current campaign but it happened all the time in my last. Now I have to figure out what I am doing differently. Probably not doing enough night searching layered with day. Getting lazy.

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 3688
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/28/2017 5:00:31 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

6.5 Sentai of Frank? Half a sentai?

Chutai...it will expand at some point.

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Post #: 3689
RE: Gnashing of Teeth: Cries of Fury - 8/28/2017 5:01:04 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Congrats on you victory at Midway.
I can only recomend the book Shattered Star. It deals in detail with some myths about that battle like that delayed float plane and such.


Read it a while back, back thanks. Probably forgot everything I read in it.

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 3690
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