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RE: Manila Falls - 2/24/2016 8:16:25 PM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I have another factory on the 61c repairing, another on the KAI repairing, and a final one on the Ki100I repairing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
100I: 3/45 eventually will have 4 r&d factories on it, one now repairing, plus engine bonus

Do you have 61a factory repairing which is planned to be advanced to 100I. Or 100I repairing?Not clear from your descriptions.
If it is the latter, then you will still be better off switching it to 61a and going the former way ;) Is only possible until 10/42 arrives though

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Post #: 961

RE: Manila Falls - 2/24/2016 8:38:19 PM

Lowpe

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Sorry for the confusion...

I now have two size 30 repaired working on the 61d.

I have one repairing on the 61c.

I have one repairing on the 100I.

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Post #: 962

RE: Manila Falls - 2/25/2016 1:14:24 AM

Lowpe

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In an oversight, I don't switch the troops pursuing the Allied rifraff from Ledo so both sides stare at each other. Shouldn't be a major problem, but we shall see.

Unloading more supply at Chittagong. A rather strong surface fleet is protecting Chittagong, but I am not sure how much longer I am going to leave them there. They aren't stronger than the Allied massive fleet buildup here.

Once these supplies are delivered they will probably head south with the convoy.

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RE: Manila Falls - 2/25/2016 12:25:01 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Sorry for the confusion...

I now have two size 30 repaired working on the 61d.

I have one repairing on the 61c.

I have one repairing on the 100I.

Why not have them all on the earliest available model, then upgrade through to later models? I know you're PDU-off and so have to make them all, but this would still get you RnD of later models more quickly.

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Post #: 964

RE: Manila Falls - 2/25/2016 5:52:38 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Why not have them all on the earliest available model, then upgrade through to later models? I know you're PDU-off and so have to make them all, but this would still get you RnD of later models more quickly.

I can guarantee you that if I researched them down the line sequentially, I would not get the D model faster...

2 sentai fly the A model; a step up from Nates for sure.
1 sentai flies the B model.
All three existing models fly the C model.

Plane upgrade path is A to B to D. The C model is an exception, but it does advance to the D.

The big question now is how far to enlarge the engine factory. Big enough to get the 500 engine bonus? Or match production?

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Post #: 965

RE: Manila Falls - 2/25/2016 7:27:20 PM

Lowpe

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For me, the Tony is a low altitude anti - bomber fighter.

Here is a break down of the first four. I have elected not to r&d the B model. I have expanded the initial research engine factory from 30 to 60.

The first Tony production factory will be at Harbin and will start off at 0, it is a size 7 Oscar IIb factory currently.

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Post #: 966

RE: Manila Falls - 2/25/2016 7:33:15 PM

Lowpe

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And up to the 100

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RE: Manila Falls - 2/25/2016 7:41:54 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Why not have them all on the earliest available model, then upgrade through to later models? I know you're PDU-off and so have to make them all, but this would still get you RnD of later models more quickly.

I can guarantee you that if I researched them down the line sequentially, I would not get the D model faster...

2 sentai fly the A model; a step up from Nates for sure.
1 sentai flies the B model.
All three existing models fly the C model.

Plane upgrade path is A to B to D. The C model is an exception, but it does advance to the D.

The big question now is how far to enlarge the engine factory. Big enough to get the 500 engine bonus? Or match production?

Uh, ok. I know you work hard on RnD and so I'm no questioning because I know better, just because I don't get it.

So. What about:

1 x 30 for Ki-61c (if those groups don't upgrade to the D. If they do forget the C and just use them for training or back lines defense and commit this to the Ki-61A for the quicker line to Ki-100).

3 x 30 for the Ki-61A. These finish by 9/42, one can be split off for the production if you want (or do 4 x 30 and use that one for production).

Then:

2 x 30 Ki-61b until 3/43. Upgrade 1 x 30 prod to Ki-61b (after the A is not effective or because the groups upgrade to a later model) 1 x 30 Ki-61c still researching.

2 x 30 Ki-61d until 12/43. Upgrade 1 x 30 prod to Ki-61d (after the B is not effective or because the group upgrade to a later model) 1 x 30 Ki-61c done. Convert to production.

2 x 30 Ki-61 KAI until 5/44. Do not upgrade 1 x 30 Ki-61c prod or 1 x 30 Ki-61d prod to the Ki-61 KAI.

2 x Ki-100 until 11/44. Upgrade 2 x 30 prod for 4 x 30 Ki-100.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/25/2016 8:08:08 PM >

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Post #: 968

RE: Manila Falls - 2/25/2016 7:57:17 PM

obvert

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My preference would be to use 4 x 30 Ki-61a. you should get those by 8/42 if begun early and once done researching, upgrade 2 x 30 to Ki-100 directly. Then upgrade 1 x 30 to Ki-61b. One to production.

That should give you Ki-61b in 4/43.
The Ki-61c in 9/43 (no RnD)
The Ki-61d in 1/44
The Ki-61 KAI in 6/44

The earlier ones aren't really better than the Tojo or even the later Oscars. PDU-off you might be best off using your Nicks, A6M3 and the very minimally forwarded Tony versions and getting the Ki-100 earlier if possible.

This would give you 2 x 30 finished factories researching the Ki-100 from 8/42. Every 12 months would be 720 points = 7.2 months pushed forward.

So Ki-100 by 5/44 at the latest.

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Post #: 969

RE: Manila Falls - 2/25/2016 8:37:49 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The earlier ones aren't really better than the Tojo or even the later Oscars. PDU-off you might be best off using your Nicks, A6M3 and the very minimally forwarded Tony versions and getting the Ki-100 earlier if possible.

Not enough Nick squadrons while China is still going on. Of the top of my head I have 3.3 Sentai, and one restricted to General Defense. Right now most are all heavily involved in strafing attacks in Burma and China.

Yep, the Tony isn't much better than an Oscar until you get to the Ki100. The D version will be in play all game and I like it more than an Oscar against bombers.

My basic thought was to use the 61a at Rangoon and another base that needs air protection but not within land based sweepers. I would really like to avoid land based bombers savaging my ports' full of ships.

I can't decide if I should keep with accelerating the D version, or simply work on that first 100. In three months I will most likely have then engine bonus for the 100.

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RE: Manila Falls - 2/25/2016 9:09:49 PM

obvert

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Oh. Yeah. numbers above don't even take engine bonus into account. that would make things even faster.

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Post #: 971

RE: Manila Falls - 2/26/2016 6:27:02 PM

Lowpe

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Ledo evacuees get routed again, two units left for another attack.

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Post #: 972

RE: Manila Falls - 2/26/2016 6:31:59 PM

Lowpe

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A few nice air attacks on the Commonwealth's leading elements, they outran their AA protection.

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Post #: 973

RE: Manila Falls - 2/29/2016 5:14:56 PM

Lowpe

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Mid September 1944

The Ledo evacuees are forced to retreat a 4th time, and have made it back to a large Allied stack, the relief column -- which has no AA and was bombed to good effect today.

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RE: Manila Falls - 2/29/2016 11:08:07 PM

Lowpe

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Sam. Perhaps the 2nd most important plane after the Frank A. Maybe the Sam is more important than the Frank a...but given arrival dates I don't think so.

I need the Sam to be available in 1944 if I want the KB to be any kind of threat in 44, and the sooner the better.

The Sam J is also very important, but comes so much later it is hard to see so far into the future.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/29/2016 11:10:17 PM >

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RE: Manila Falls - 3/1/2016 9:57:27 AM

obvert

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The Sam is great for a 20k mid-level CAP late. At some points when I had numerous Jack J2M5 & Frank Ki-84r at 31k and Sams at 20k they can turn to defend against the best and wait for high CAP to dive, plus they're tough against bombers and durable enough to last through a large combat.

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Post #: 976

RE: Manila Falls - 3/1/2016 6:48:54 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The Sam is great for a 20k mid-level CAP late. At some points when I had numerous Jack J2M5 & Frank Ki-84r at 31k and Sams at 20k they can turn to defend against the best and wait for high CAP to dive, plus they're tough against bombers and durable enough to last through a large combat.

They actually aren't any more durable than the other 3rd-gen IJN fighters (Jack/George) - durability 30, armor 1. If we're talking about LBA groups here, then I'd rather use one of those two models.

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Post #: 977

RE: Manila Falls - 3/1/2016 8:48:40 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The Sam is great for a 20k mid-level CAP late. At some points when I had numerous Jack J2M5 & Frank Ki-84r at 31k and Sams at 20k they can turn to defend against the best and wait for high CAP to dive, plus they're tough against bombers and durable enough to last through a large combat.

They actually aren't any more durable than the other 3rd-gen IJN fighters (Jack/George) - durability 30, armor 1. If we're talking about LBA groups here, then I'd rather use one of those two models.

PDU off here, gotta take what is available.

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Post #: 978

RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 12:03:02 AM

Lowpe

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Another day, another attack in China. I am two hexes from Chungking and the central plains. One more attack should see five Chinese Corp in full retreat.

Near Ledo, the Allied relief column puts AA in combat mode, or they get a slug of supplies, and a mini-AA trap is accomplished. I conveniently moved some of my bombers lower and I lost a dozen bombers or so. Still inflicted enough damage to get the Allies to retreat with their stack. I suspect he will attempt to build up the bases he has taken near the front lines before resuming the offensive.

I pulled the 5th Guards Division out of this theater, and they are on their way to Kodiak.

Jocke keeps probing the perimeter -- testing my naval search. My bombers haven't flown against his destroyers doing the probing which is fine by me.

In another day or two the 1st Tank Division will form up in China.

I have cleaned up some more of my plane research from Olorin. I eliminated the Ki119 FB r&d factory, and two of the Ki115a facilities and moved them to Sam.

I don't want the Ki119 -- which is Lilly IIb or IIc squadrons. I would much rather prefer sticking with the Lilly.

The Ki119 (army kamikaze) is a neat plane, but squadrons only become available for it two months early, so having two r&d facilities on it is overkill. In addition, every squadron in limited to size 10.

This makes my Sam r&d program pretty robust. Happy about that, since it was a weak spot in my r&d.

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Post #: 979

RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 2:47:19 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

PDU off here, gotta take what is available.

Which is what makes Sam even more important ... For PDU OFF it is the most important RnD target for the IJN ... IMO.

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RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 5:43:33 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The Sam is great for a 20k mid-level CAP late. At some points when I had numerous Jack J2M5 & Frank Ki-84r at 31k and Sams at 20k they can turn to defend against the best and wait for high CAP to dive, plus they're tough against bombers and durable enough to last through a large combat.

They actually aren't any more durable than the other 3rd-gen IJN fighters (Jack/George) - durability 30, armor 1. If we're talking about LBA groups here, then I'd rather use one of those two models.

Frank/Jack are high CAP. Sam/George/Ki-100 are mid level. (Although the N1K5 is fast enough to be high too). Any A6M around, or Oscars, are low CAP.

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Post #: 981

RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 5:57:13 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The Sam is great for a 20k mid-level CAP late. At some points when I had numerous Jack J2M5 & Frank Ki-84r at 31k and Sams at 20k they can turn to defend against the best and wait for high CAP to dive, plus they're tough against bombers and durable enough to last through a large combat.

They actually aren't any more durable than the other 3rd-gen IJN fighters (Jack/George) - durability 30, armor 1. If we're talking about LBA groups here, then I'd rather use one of those two models.

Frank/Jack are high CAP. Sam/George/Ki-100 are mid level. (Although the N1K5 is fast enough to be high too). Any A6M around, or Oscars, are low CAP.

All my fighters are pretty much low CAP. Very rarely do I fly above 15K. I have been known to fly Oscars at 3000 feet. This game with Alt restrictions is the exception, and I fly the Tojo at 20K (max altitude)but everything else much lower.

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Post #: 982

RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 6:15:06 PM

obvert

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They're increasing ALT restrictions though, right? This suggestion is late war when (I assume) CAP will have a higher limit.

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Post #: 983

RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 6:20:16 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

They're increasing ALT restrictions though, right? This suggestion is late war when (I assume) CAP will have a higher limit.

Yes, but I probably won't climb with them...I want the air to air combat to be very low.

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RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 6:57:19 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

They're increasing ALT restrictions though, right? This suggestion is late war when (I assume) CAP will have a higher limit.

Yes, but I probably won't climb with them...I want the air to air combat to be very low.

Don't we all?!?

I found that it was best to use layered CAP late, but I played with nearly every combination possible during my campaign games. Recently in tests I found Japanese defenders did well up high but were often skewered by divers without any chance to fight back if set all low.

It al depends on where you are and the other factors of course, but I think the ability of IJ fighters to climb makes them useful up high even against the best. This then leaves some lower CAP to fight bombers.

Let me know if you've discovered otherwise in my hiatus, as I'd like to understand this all better. Maybe there is a CR in your game you can point to where low CAP worked?

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Post #: 985

RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 7:08:29 PM

Lowpe

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Obvert, I got the Alfred stamp of approval

for defensive CAP:

2. I am never in favour of HRs. In almost all instances a HR benefits one side and is a very lazy way for the disadvantaged to limit their disadvantage. In almost all instances, there is a legitimate tactic which obviates the necessity of a HR. A classic example is the constant whining of players that a HR is necessary to combat high altitude sweeps. You have consistently implemented the tactics which some of us have been saying for years are the correct response, and your results have been outstanding. Alfred

Of course, every game is different but I have done very well versus Jocke's Lightning sweeps so far this game. Knock on wood.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/2/2016 7:48:02 PM >

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RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 7:43:49 PM

Lowpe

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Jocke puts two torpedoes into a 17 point xAP, in return I depth charge and sink (unlikely) a Gato class sub in the straits of Malacca or nearbye. I might still get the Gato, as it has to return thru many coastal water hexes teeming with decent sub chasers and aerial search.

So far my aerial ASW has been very poor, as I haven't allocated that many squadrons to it.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/2/2016 7:47:38 PM >

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Post #: 987

RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 8:03:23 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

PDU off here, gotta take what is available.

Which is what makes Sam even more important ... For PDU OFF it is the most important RnD target for the IJN ... IMO.

Hmm., I always thought the Frank A is the most important plane. Plentiful squadrons upgrade to it, stand up to Jugs, Army fighter, and early arrival date.

But now at looking at Sam here in a pdu off environment...there are more squadrons that upgrade to Sam (and stop there). If you want to play with the KB in 44 the Sam is a must have.

Unfortunately quite a few A6M2 upgrade to the Sen Baku and then along the Zero line.

I feel a lot better about bolstering my Sam research the other day, the engine research is advancing 1 month each month and that seems sufficient to me. If I can get the Sam mid 44 as seems likely with the engine bonus, then I will be in pretty good shape I think. First quarter 44 seems really tough to get.

The Tojo IIc starts research in 2 days; and once the IIc is advanced far enough those three factories will go over to the Sam too -- perhaps that will help get me to the 1st qtr 44.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/2/2016 8:07:49 PM >

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RE: Manila Falls - 3/2/2016 8:26:07 PM

Lowpe

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In 9 days I get a slug of Garrison infantry. Very important units...The TOE for them is junk, but they are air mobile, and will allow me meet garrison requirements of several bases freeing up better TOE units.

I feel a chronic shortage of engineers in this game (mod) and look forward to getting more of them, too.